Echo5059

Guys,

In my former career I was a police officer for six years assigned to patrol. I was a certified traffic radar operator. Prior to becoming a police officer I used to spend a lot of money on the latest and greatest radar detectors. One day I was pulled over by a state trooper on my way home from college. I had a top of the line Escort radar detector at the time. The trooper made the comment to me that he loved people who had radar detectors because of the false sense of security it gave them. He told me that the radar detectors also gave him a good tracking history. Of course I did not know what he meant at the time until years later. After becoming a certified radar operator I discovered that I had been wasting my money radar detectors and I knew what the trooper meant.

A skilled radar operator will nail you regardless of whether or not you have a radar detector. I become one of those skilled operators and I took great pleasure in writing tickets to people with radar detectors. What people fail to realize is that radar waves travel at the speed of light (186,300 miles a second). As soon as the radar antenna is activated, it transmit a radar signal at the speed of light. The radar signal travels at a particular wave length depending on the band (X, K, Ka, etc). When it strikes a target vehicle the signal returns to the antenna. The computer in the radar unit measures the change in frequency of the return signal and calculates the speed. Federal law requires that the computer perform the calculation three times before it displays a speed. It performs this calculation in approximately .5 seconds. Of course by the time your radar detector goes off, the radar operator already has your speed. Now this is where the tracking comes in. When your radar detector goes off, you immediately lay on the brakes. The result is that the radar operator watches the target vehicle speed slow down dramatically. The operator now has confirmation that the vehicle he "clocked" at a particular speed is the correct vehicle. Additionally, the operator is listening to the audio doppler which is also confirming this. The audio doppler is a high pitched tone that corresponds to the vehicle speed. The higher the pitch, the faster the vehicle speed. The law in most states allows the radar operator to write a ticket for the highest displayed speed on the radar unit. The radar unit only displays speed in whole numbers. Interestingly, the law requires that it always rounds down in favor of the violator.

What is the fastest speed I ever clocked someone at who had a radar detector. That would 113mph and the fine was $275.00. If you want pointers on using a radar detector effectively I will have to post it later as I am tired of typing.

metal22lica

hmm...so no point in getting one? since you were an officer..is it true that they wont pull you over unless you are only going over a certain speed on the highway? like down here the speed limit is 70..and a lot of people say they wont pull you over unless you are going 80 or over.

kc4runner

What he is saying is the truth. It is easy to spot people who have radar detectors too (not only visually) but also when you operate the radar. The target vehicle's speed comes up, at which point you can lock it in, if you choose (but not necessary). This is where the radar detector comes into play. The people who have radar detectors will usually show a dramatic drop in speed even if they can't see you, AFTER you have checked their speed, since their detector is going off. Problem is that you already know how fast the vehicle was going BEFORE their detector went off. 99% of the time when they go by, you'll notice a radar detector on the dash when this happens. And in 50% of those circumstances, once they are pulled over the radar detector somehow has disappeared (funny how you notice those mysterious cigarette lighter cords going under the seat or to some unknown location. We are speaking here of "instant on" of course. Some officers leave their radar in transit mode all the time. And laser..I have yet to see a laser detector really work all the time. But I guess it is a game of chance. Of course no one would ever write a 4Runner owner

Corey

iTrader: (1)

This is good info.
I have never felt the need to buy a radar dectector because to be quite honest with you, I don't speed.
Guess that's why I have not had a speeding ticket since '79

I'm not the type of driver who has to pass someone unless they are really going slow on purpose.

I go with the flow of traffic, and if I'm in the left lane and it's going to fast, I'll get over in the right lane instead for awhile.

I keep hearing of how good the Valentine detector is, but I guess it's all hype in the end.

Thanks for sharing the info here. If everyone saved the money from buying a radar detector, they could buy a more usefull mod for their rig.

Memphis4X4

Thanks Echo and kc for the insight. I have been a Radar detector user for years and never ever thought of myself 'tipping my hand' by slamming on the brakes!! I typically use my radar detector in conjunction with a 'scarifical lamb' for best results. I let the 'lamb' go out in front and flush out any radar or laser traps and then I following at a safe distance will slow down when one is detected and I will cruise by smiling. I would be very interested in knowing how to use the dectector effectively once you feel like typing again......

David

Echo5059

metal22lica,

As far as being pulled over is concerned, it is almost entirely officer discretion. I did not pull anyone over unless they were doing at least 15 over because it wasnt worth my time and effort. Also, some states, such as Florida, do not permit an officer to write a citation for less than five miles an hour over the limit. Therefore, I usually gave violators 15 over because the first five were freebies anyway.

Echo

metal22lica

ok thanks Echo, i knew about the 5 MPH thing. what state do you live in?

Bob_98SR5

Echo,

Yeah, tips would be great on how to effectively use a radar detector. Having just purchased a V1 w/ the concealed display, I would like to know how to use it more effectively.

The assumption here is that you are looking for someone who is grossly speeding over the posted speed limit and then slamming on the brakes. If as you say, someone is only travelling 15 mph or less over the speed limit is "safe" in your book. This is basically how I drive so I am not concerned. Also as Memphis mentioned, I'm never the one out in front either.

I did get to test out the V1 last weekend on a round trip drive from LA to SF and I was impressed on how it performed better than my past cheapy radar detector. The V1 was able to detect the radars from the CHiPies way before I even saw them and thus I had ample time to let the 4runner slow down naturally. On two occassions it detected Lasers but I think that might have been a false reading b/c I do not think the CHP use Lasers.

In anycase, tips would be great.

Thanks,
Bob

Echo5059

Memphis4X4,

Since you asked and because I am on my lunch break, I will provide some tips on using the radar detector effectively.

First, I should explain some physics as it relates to radar signals. Different objects, in this case vehicles, have different levels of what is called reflective capability. Larger vehicles such as tractor trailers and SUVs have the greatest reflective capability in that they have a lot of metal and large flat surfaces. Therefore, a larger proportion of the radar signal is returned to the transmitter(antenna). Some materials reflect less radar because they absorb it (stealth technology). Cars that have rounded surfaces and contain a lot of fiberglass reflect less radar. I found corvettes to be one of the most difficult vehicles to get a good lock on because of their low profiles and fiberglass construction. So how do you utilize the radar detector effectively you may ask.

Travel in packs of vehicles. It is never good to be the lead vehicle or the straggling vehicle trying to catch up to the pack. When you are traveling in the pack, the radar signal is bouncing off of the various vehicles in the group and as discussed above, certain vehicles will have a better signal return than others. For example, if you are traveling in the fast lane in a pack and a tractor trailer is in the slow lane a hundred feet behind you, chances are good that the radar will prefer to lock on the tractor trailer instead of you.

Avoid speeding on two lane roads (one lane for each direction of travel). My favorite locations to run radar were two lane roads. The reason being, if I am set up in a "speed trap" I am only clocking one vehicle at a time either as it is approaching or moving away. And yes, you can be clocked from behind if the radar operator is stationary. Many traffic officers have two antennas, one in the front of their vehicle and one in the rear. Multiple lane roads make it more difficult for the radar operator due to the ability of vehicles to travel in packs.

Avoid speeding late at night or early in the morning. Obviously, there is less traffic on the road and even if you are on a multiple lane road it is considerably easier to lock onto a violator.

Become familiar with known "speed traps". As you know there are certain areas where the cops like to run radar. Usually these areas lend themselves to running radar for a number of reasons. Things I looked for when selecting a location were ease of access into traffic, a clear unobstructed line of sight, some terrain feature that provided a little concealment, and an area where I knew people were likely to speed.

For Interstate travel, buy a CB. The CB will be your best early warning device because the truckers will constantly be providing updates on cops running radar. I used to have a handheld CB in my patrol car and I would listen to the truckers giving updates. I would usually have several locations that I rotated around due to the truckers.

Dont always assume your radar detector is giving a false warning when you are getting intermittent "beeps". This may be an indication that a radar operator is using "instant on" radar a few miles up the road. And to clear things up with regards to instant on. The radar unit has a button on it called a "hold" button. With the hold button engaged, the radar unit is on, but the antenna is not transmitting a signal. As soon as the hold button is released, the antenna transmits the signal. As soon as the radar operator clocks a target, he re-engages the hold button so as not to alert people a few miles down the road with radar detectors. The people down the road receive those annoying intermittent beeps and think it is a false warning.

As far as laser radar is concerned, it is only good for stationary operation. It is a handheld unit with an optical sighting system. The laser radar does not use a "laser" beam. It just uses a much higher frequency signal that maintains a tighter beam which enables the operator to target a specific vehicle. If you are targetted by a laser radar operator, he has you dead to rights as it operates on the same principles as standard radar units.

Echo

castrolSi

I have had my Valentine 1 for about 2 years now. I love it. Best
investment I have made in years. Mostly because I drive fast. I just
do. I received my first ticket in over 2 years, and that was due
solely to my own mistake. I was only doing 70 in a 60, but he got
me nonetheless. It was laser, and yes, the V1 did pick up the laser,
but not until it was too late. I have picked up laser readings before,
which is usually the officer tagging the cars in front of me, but this
day, I only had a motorcycle in front of me.. and I was catching him.
I topped the hill behind the motorcycle, and there he was, sitting
on the side of the road. BUSTED. Unfortunately, I had let all of my
other habits slide on this one... like not topping a hill as the only
car in my lane. They work, as long as you pay attention to them.
The thing I love about the Valentine, is that it tells me how MANY
cops there are up ahead or behind. Houston has a tendancy to
run many cops in a row, to get the traffic after the first guy is busted.
I have had many run ins with multiple officers set up for radar, and
love being able to count how many there are... and watch all the
other people speed back up, only to slam on their brakes again
over the next hill.

~Wade

kc4runner

Echo has some good words of advice. I strongly agree with Echo's statement regarding not speeding on a two lane road. This is where radar is most effective (i.e. it is easiest to pick out individual cars that are speeding). On the freeway, laser is primarly used because it can be hard to pick out a particular vehicle in heavy urban traffic using conventional radar (key word being heavy traffic, unless you are the lead car). But if you choose to be the "leader of the pack", you open yourself to being picked up on any kind of radar. As echo stated, laser can only be used stationary. However in a patrol car, they can check your speed even if you are going the same direction as the officer (alot of people don't know that). So, really you can get a ticket so many ways....

If you are stopped, it really is officer discretion unless you are a junior pilot in training and were going 100+. Lets say a motor or traffic officer stops you, there is a very slim chance of getting off. Their productivity is based upon vehicle stops, since they don't handle calls. Regular city/county officer, you would really have to be flying (i.e. 15+ over). I live in a large city, so I am speaking in terms of an urban area. Big exceptions are rural towns and small exclusive towns (i.e. small towns in big cities that have no crime and basically run radar all day long). In those circumstances, I have heard of people getting written for 5 over :eek:

Echo5059

metal22lica,

I am currently living in South Florida, the greater Ft. Lauderdale area. It seems like most of the people in the forum are from the west coast and midwest.

Echo

Bob_98SR5

Echo and KC:

Great, common sense advice. From what you are saying, it seems that as long as you drive safely and not going over 15 mph over the posted speed limit, you should be alright...unless the officer is having a bad day, has a mean streak for radar detectors, and has been patrolling the same 2 lane highway without promotion for the last 10 years!

Bob

peterbilt

Echo,

I'm with Corey. I don't need a detector because I usually go the speed limit, yes even in Texas.

And I agree with what you said. However, you failed to mention a point. Radar works on power density. That is, and a point there is not enough energy in the signal to bounce back to the receiver. Out side this point, the signal can still be safely detected by the radar detector. If the driver can react at this point then he wins. Otherwise, the officer wins.

Pete

03DCTACO

Valentine 1 all the way. It tells you where the radar is and how many. It is great when you typically drive through an area and get 2 false signals when #3 shows up SLOW DOWN. If you are driving at night on the highway with no one (no sacraficial lamb as memphis said) in front of you just do the speed limit you are asking for trouble if you speed.

Echo5059

peterbilt,

You are correct about the signal strength return. The farther the radar beam travels the more dispersed it becomes. Eventually, it becomes too weak for enough of the signal to return to the antenna for a reading. The effective range for most radar units is approximately one mile but there are many environmental factors that will affect this such as roadway obstructions, hills, curves, weather conditions, etc.

Echo

Dragonbud

some good tips and infos on this thread.
I'm not a firm beleiver on radar detector but since radio shack had
a blow out special a few months ago. I hardly speed in my truck but i still decided to purchase one for kicks and giggles.

A few of my buddies claim that radar detectors are illegal in california and one could get a ticket for it.

Is this true??
I dont want my $15 bargain bin radar detector costing me hundreds in the long run.

CLin9383

bob, do you have pics of your concieled v1?? i'm looking to conceal my radar dect but have failed to find a spot!! thanks

Robinhood150

No, unless the laws have changed VERY recently, radar detectors are legal in CA. They're only illegal in a couple states back east. They are illegal in CA for vehicles over a certain weight, like semi's.

Steve

Bob_98SR5

Didn't you read my write up on hardwiring the V1 and concealed display? Search for it, buddy! Its a good one.

Bob