IGotaQ

So here's the deal: I would really like to rebuild my 22re. I mainly want to do it so I can get inside and see what is going on in my engine. I don't know what everything is called and I don't know what parts of my engine are stock and what isn't. I figure this would be a great way to learn. I have never done this before. The most I have ever done besides changing my oil on my truck is putting a new starter in. I consider myself mechanically inclined and a quick learner. I was planning on ordering the 220 dollar rebuild kit from engnbldr.com. There is a possibility that the previous owner could have bored it out so I was going to wait till I have it all opened up to get the measurements I need to give to engnbldr. I know that the previous owner did not change the oil very often...I had it serviced awhile ago and they told me there is a lot of gunky build up inside. I've been changing the oil every 1000 miles to try and clear it out (as I was told to do by the mechanic). So I'd really like to get in there and give everything a good scrubbing (and maybe some paint?).
So here are my questions: What tools am I likely going to need besides sockets? What other costs should I expect other than the rebuild kit? I was considering putting in a higher performance camshaft while I'm in there. Is it worth it? Are these good camshafts from engnbldr:
270 Camshaft @ ..........$89.00
261C Cam @ ................$89.00
Which would you recommend and why?
I have been looking around for answers to these questions but can't seem to find a good writeup on a 22re rebuild. I will probably think of some more questions later. Thanks for any advice you guys can give me. And by the way :

IGotaQ

I emailed engnbldr after some advice from 96_Runner and this is what he has to say about the cams:
The numbers are the theoretical total duration for the cam lobe. These are symetrical profiles so intake and exhaust durations are the same.
The 270/430 is 219° @ .050" lobe lift, 110° centerline, .430" lift.
The 261C is 210° @ .050" lobe lift, 110° centerline, .410" lift on the latest design, some of the early were .404". We made a small change to that design to add a couple hundred RPM potential.

Of course, this is all jibberish to me. Doesn't anyone else have anything to say? Thanks

growinseed

I posted in you other thread
Welcome
Nathan

flecker

You will need a real good book like a FSM for your year yota 1st! Then you need to study up on rebuild procedures. Study up on the timing as well and proper timing chain replacement methods. The list of tools you should have are:
Engine stand (you can rent) use the old head bolts to hold block
Engine hoist (you can rent)
At least a 1/2 inch impact (not needed, but makes some things way easier)
Torque wrench (100# or at the very least an 80#) 1/2 inch
Good metric socket set
Ring compressor
Air compressor
Jack/s at least one for the tranny
wrenches, metric
screwdrivers
silicone.... preferably toyota fipk
Valve gauges to set valve lash
Timing gun
and a ton of miscelaneous tools ie; channel locks, pliers and etc. etc. etc...
and then add about $500 to your initial rebuild budget, you probably will need it for unforseen expences.

Find yourself a good, reputable machine shop for the block and have the crank checked out while your at it. Then take the head to a good head shop also... As far as cams go, what are you gonna do with this rig? Whatever you do don't go above a 280* duration... stick with a good mid range, or torquey cam if you plan to wheel it any. Cams usually have the most noticable gain when coupled with a good header and exhaust set up, and you open up the air intake some. Does your engine need a rebuild? Or do you just like knowing how things work? Wich brings me to the most important again.... Study! Know exactly what your doing before you do it! Other wise it's just money thrown in the crapper. Hope that helped
EDIT: Yes enginebldr has some great products!
And be sure to use new followers with the cam and follow all break in procedures to a T.

IGotaQ

Thanks for the responses fellas.
flecker: few questions for you. So I use the valve guage to set clearance? How much should I expect to pay for a valve guage and a timing gun?
I definately want a cam that will give me good mid-low range power. I do a fair amount of wheeling and I'd really like some more low end. I already have headers and flowmaster exhaust.
I am not totally sure if my engine needs a rebuild, I know it doesn't run as well as a lot of other 22REs and it burns some oil. I also know that it is very grimy inside and I am assuming this is effecting performance. I really do want to figure out how it works and get familiar with what has been modified by the previous owner.
As far as your comment about knowing everything before I do it.... I will definately study up on it and know basically what I am doing. But I don't think that there is anyway I could rebuild it without learning something I, like most people I assume, don't learn best by just reading and looking at pictures. I need to get in there and get my hands on it.
Oh, and for unexpected costs... could you give me some examples? I would really like to do this for ~500 dollars excluding tools. There is nothing that I can imagine that I would have to do. After installing all the parts of the engine kit, it is going to run better than it did before and if budget won't allow then I won't need to do anything else. Correct?


growinseed: It's nice to see more people in the SLO area on here. Is machining mainly done to clean up any gouges and burring and stuff? Besides having port jobs.

And can't I use a big ratchet strap to hold up my tranny instead of a jack? (pretty sure I can)

Thanks fellas. Keep 'em coming!

flecker

Yeah, you could use a strap to hold the tranny in place... when it comes to mating the engine and trans back together it would be easier with the jack. Hidden expenses, where do I begin? Things that you don't know have gone bad and whatnot... plugs, plug wires and so on and such. Just the machine shop will set you back 150-200 and the head will be about a hundred.
Hopefully the 220.00 dollar kit comes w/ all new rings, timing chain set w/ guides, new oil pump, new pistons, all new gaskets, all bearings and new seals, new cam gear/ timing gears and then throw in the cost of the cam at 90.00 bucks.... What are we up to here: Roughly 600.00 bucks or so... then add up all the new fluids... Antifreeze, oil... yata yata theres another 30 bucks. Oh and the oil filter, cap, rotor and other junk. Just figure around 700.00. That's just a general list. You could prolly scrape by on that budget, and have a descent running motor in the end. What's the clutch look like? You'll know when you peel the motor out, so that might be one hidden cost right there... about a 125 bucks. And you certainly won't know everything about engine rebuilding, I'm just saying study up as much as possible before you get in too deep. I did, my first was prolly about 7 or 8 years ago and I got through it. I had a real good teacher though nearby when I was attempting something difficult or unknown. You should be fine. And don't forget that bolt at the top of the timing cover, I have seen more broken timing covers due to people not getting that hidden bolt out. :pat:
Oh yeah! New followers for the cam... theres another 100.00 bucks!
See what I mean?

growinseed

The machine shop can resurface the block, head and flywheel, hone cylinders, check clearances, scope any parts that maybe damaged, rebuild the head. One thing nice about using a machine shop is they do this all the time, so a good shop souldn't make mistakes and when you get the engine back together you'll be very happy with the results. Get a factory Service Manual. Look on ebay. The're specific to your year and give detailed step by step info with good pics and diagrams.
Good luck
pm me if you are going to do this in SLO area I've got most of the 'one time' tools you might need.
Cheers
Nathan

JoKEpLaYeR

I'm rebuilding my 22re right now. I'm located a hour and half north of santa cruz (in walnut creek) and will be going to school in scotts valley this fall so let me know if you need any help!

I would second the call to get a service manual set. I got lucky and my truck came with a 4 book set!

Good luck!

IGotaQ

Wow, thanks very much for the offers growinseed and Jokeplayer. I am not sure when I'll be doing the rebuild but I'll be sure to take you guys up oin your offers if I need it. I will also definately be gettting an FSM.
Jokeplayer: I was born in Walnut Creek and lived there for 8 years. How is your rebuild going? Is it your first? Any comments about it?
Thanks a lot folks.

JoKEpLaYeR

Wow..... It's a small world. How old are you? Where did you go to school when you were in WC? I was born in Walnut Creek and still live here.... 20 years in one city isn't as bad as some would think.

This is really my third rebuild..... but my first on a car I've owned. I rebuilt an engine in autoshop at Northgate and also have been very involved in helping to rebuild two of my friends motors.

Best advice I can give you: Find a machine shop who you can call and ask questions! It's saved me and my friend a bunch of times. We've called them for everything from torque specs to vacuum routing questions. I took my engine to Tri-Valley Machine in Pacheco. They are very cool people and know what they're doing.

Second small piece of advice: Borrow whatever tools you can - hopefully find a neighbor or a friend and have them help you!

Later,
Steve

IGotaQ

Thanks for the tips. I am 18 and went to Murwood. I lived on Arbol Grande Ct off of Castle Hill Rd. You might know of a friend of mine.... Brendon Swisher?

JoKEpLaYeR

The name doesn't sound familiar.... Oh well. I'm 20 and went to Contra Costa Christian for Elementary School.

How's the rebuild coming? I just dropped off my new TRD Stage 1 cam at the machine shop! I "should" get it back this week.... but they've told me that a few times now.

JoKEpLaYeR

Ok, so the motor is done. I had the shop reassemble the head and attach it to the block. A hairy dog lives in my garage and after looking at my driveshaft which has been in there a few weeks it made me very weary of doing any open engine work in the garage..... so for a few dollars extra I get a fully assembled engine!

I have a couple questions regarding cam/engine break in and what type oil to use…

I want to grow the engine up on synthetic…. But should I break it in with dino oil? Will one grab floating particles better? I know I need to break in the cam for 20 minutes @ 2000rpm…. And then change the oil. How soon after that do I need to change it again? 100 miles? 1000 miles?

Thanks for any advice! I’m going to ask the shop to, but I’d love to hear how you have done it!

kyle_22r

you wanna break it in with non detergent dino oil for a while, then regular dino. i think after 2000-5000 miles you can switch to synthetic