ChrisJ

My father-in-law is not very vehicle friendly/aware, so when his 1992 Toyota Pickup started to overheat, he didn't notice till it started running badly, probably because parts were close to the melting point. Luckily, nothing seized, but the overheating problem remained... very erratic, starting off normal then jumping up/down.

The only diagnosis clue was that he was losing coolant, but not on the ground. He was also shy a quart of oil the day I saw him (filled it then). The exhaust was normal at normal operating temp. (I wasn't there when it overheated... but dad#2 didn't mention any white smoke when the needle rose.)

So he took it to his "friend" at his "trusted" garage and after a pressure test they see water in the oil, therefore diagnose a cracked block.

This seams a little extreme to me. Couldn't it just be a head gasket or warped head? Still expensive, but cheaper than a new engine right?

My untrusting gut tells me the garage just wanted a nice easy diagnosis with a big price tag. What do you think?


Part 2: He also takes the truck to his local Toyota dealer (somewhere near Pembroke, MA) and the a$$hole there tells him it looks like a bad timing belt and should be replaced for $1600. First off, that's too much for a timing belt, secondly the belt has nothing to do with overheating or coolant loss. What the hell! How can people be so dishonest to an old man?!

HaveBlue

Just a shot in the dark, but have you checked the coolant level/mixture?
Also, it could be something as simple as a thermostat. A thermostat housing/leaky gasket could cause coolant loss and, therefore, overheating.

Also, when was the last time the radiator was flushed? My Escort started to overheat and it was due to poor coolant circulation caused by excessive deposits. :pat:

That's all I can think of for now.

ChrisJ

Thanks Alan, but it's probably not the thermostat (although that may have been the *original* and/or current reason for overheating) or any system blockage. The coolant is not leaking outside, but is still disappearing... into the oil.

What I'm really looking for is opinions on whether the block may be cracked (as the garage is saying) or something else, like a warped head. (I'm thinking the warped head is more likely and I'm looking for a group yae/nay about the cracked block theory.)

jx94148

Welcome aboard ChrisB! Good question. Yes. In my oppinion it sounds like both shops are trying to take advantage of an unformed driver and make some easy money.

Also, Yes it could be lots of stuff besides a cracked block. Its deffinatly not caused by a bad timing belt.

Is it spewing water out of the coolant overflow reservoir? Is the coolant full? Is it boiling over and steaming? The steps to hunt down overheating go something like this... Look for water leaking from the water pump or other places, check the thermostat, pressure test the water system, check the water temp sending unit. If none of that is bad then it may be clogged passage somewhere or a blown head gasket.

I had a bad temp sending unit that caused the needle to fluxuate from normal to pinned to the top. I wasn't overheating at all, just a bad temp sensor making me think it was too hot. I hope an actual mechanic rings in to help you with this condition. Good luck.

jx94148

Sound like a blown head gasket, perhaps caused by warped head or block or both. The crack theory I think is less likely but still possible.

butnut

Water in the oil...in my Datsun, I had oil in the water (antifreeze). When I opened my radiator cap, I could see oil floating. Seems a water jacket had corroded in my aluminum head and oil was mixing with the water. I believe because oil is under higher pressure than water, I was getting oil in my water. Since you have water in your oil, your oil cap and dip stick should look like a chocolate shake. If not, someone is pulling your leg. There may be other reasons than a cracked block for water in the oil. Finding a good, honest mechanic is a needle in a hay stack, when you do find one, treat him like your best friend, they are priceless. Good luck.
butnut

Paul H.

Chris, I had that happen to a Dodge I had. It happened only once, when the temp. dropped down to Zero. Towed it to a shop, it would not start, they changged the oil and it started up. They could not find why it happened and it never happened again. With that I say keep an eye on it and see if it happens again. I doubt that the block is cracked and $1600 to change a timming belt he should be ashamed of himself. Like Butnut says try to find an honest mech. Ask your coworkers, neighbors, and friends for references. Good luck.

Gadget

The most likely thing is a bad headgasket. I think the next step is to pull the head and take a look. Then you will know if it is cracked block or head, or just a head gasket which is pretty common. What ever you do don't drive it anymore until it is fixed.

Gadget

www.GadgetOnline.com

Shane

Is this a 4 cylinder or V6?

ChrisJ

It's a 4 cyl...

Shane

Then you don't have a timing belt, you have a timing chain. And in the 22RE, when the plastic timing chain guides break the chain wears a hole through a coolant passage in the timing cover and eventually all your coolant dumps into the oil pan. The quote of $1600 is outrageous however, it's $100-150 in parts tops if the cover is ok and a day worth of labor.

First thing you should do is pressure test the cooling system to see if/where it's really leaking, then go from there. There are flourescent dyes that you can get to put in the coolant and use a blacklight to help find where it's going.

ChrisJ

Excellent information! I feel relieved at least that the Toyota mech wasn't blatantly crooked, just overpriced.

Dad#2's "friend" mechanic did perform a pressure test and saw water in the oil, but I don't know where they looked (probably the fill cap?) and they definitely didn' t look further yet. I'll see if I can have him talk to the mechanic again to get him to look further, armed with this new info.

Thanks tons!

Chris J.

PS: I wish I new about this list back when I owned my beloved '90 blue xtra cab 4x4 v6 Toyota... ahhh I miss her somedays.

peterbilt

A bad head gasket can leak water into the oil.

Pete

ChrisJ

Thanks everyone! In the end dad#2 decided to go for the new engine. I think he's being scammed a little, but he's short on money (taking a loan from me for this work), and is just out of sorts without his truck. He doesn't want to waste any more time/money on diagnostics. The new engine + labor is costing him $2800. Even if it was a bad head, or leak caused by timing chain (why did they design it that way?), it would only save him a grand or maybe less, after all the labor charges for testing, looking, etc. Not worth it for an engine with >100k on it already? Anyway, it's done.

Amazing that these days labor is so expensive that even motors can be considered disposable!

Shane

They didn't, it was the penny pinching accountants that cut it down from a dual-row chain to a single and dropped the metal w/vulcanized rubber guides for cheap plastic ones.

Krash

/me writes down in his to do pad: 1. Check timing chain when you get truck. Replace with metal guides from DOA.

Also just to add on, My 4cyl mustang had a blown head gasket and a stripped headbolt (if i remember right) I could tell cause I could faintly smell coolant burning. I went on vacation, come back replace the hoses and clamps thinking its a bad clamp, plus the hoses needed replaced anyway. I got about 2 miles down the road noticed the heat to rise, open my hood, while still running and fluid was getting spewed everywhere. My buddy (was a really good friend of mine) fixed it.

trancenotic

I have a 90 with a 22re.... everyone here has pretty much given you the truth. In the end, a compression test should tell you if the head's cracked. In my past experience, the head gasket on our 22re's have been prone to going out around 250K miles.... (had 2 of these trucks in the family... both of them had that happen)
the only way for that mechanic to justify putting a new engine and not even rebuilding etc is to tell you it's a cracked block(or warped)... right guys?
Plus, maybe my mechanics have been kind to me but isn't 2800 a tad expensive??? I haven't bought a new 22re in a while but still based on my past encounters with having work done... it seems excessive. I am looking for a used 22re right now to start my project and even priced rebuilt motors in the 1500 ballpark.
maybe someone here is willing to sell you a 22re they have lying around. Saves your father in law and yourself $$.
Just my 2 cents
Charles

The84toyota

Note to self if you have it off get it checked. Unlessyourpositive its a bad headgasket. Trust me you dont wannaput it back together and still trouble.

nc994run

The last post was 7 years ago, he hopefully has it back together by now

The84toyota

Futrue info for ppl