sschaefer3

Mike (Azrain) came over and since I know how to get exact lift measurements, we measured out his OME lift which is recently installed.

Front: 881's with 1 trim packer = 1.5"

To make this perfect at 2" of lift install the 3/8" thick Revtek top out spacer along with the Revtek studs. This will give you 1/2" of lift that will not have any effect on the OME springs. This is in additon to the 1 trim packer, without that, the 881's would give you a whoping 1" of lift.

Rear: 891's with NO cones = 2.5"

So to make it "perfect" leave the rear cones out. Invest on a quality frame mounted stop like a Daystar or Energy Suspension. The cone will bring it up to 3". It should also be known that these springs on my 4Runner now only net 1.5" of lift and I run 1" Cornbred spacers. So the more you wheel it, the more likely they are to settle.


This is a very nice lift, my stock coils and Frankenstein setup is still quite a bit softer up front. But this is nice too.

bamachem

^ Good info. I'll compare the 882's/891's and the Tundra Coils/Cornfed/Downey setup to Brian's OEM stuff on Sat when he comes over. I'm pulling the OME stuff and going back to my old setup. I know it won't be the EXACT same since the rigs are slightly different, but it will at least give a basis for OEM w/ OEM bumper compared to 882's w/ ARB and Tundra Coils/Cornfed 2.5" spacer w/ ARB.

loosehead

Here's some interesting tid-bits from an ARB engineer out of Seattle, I wrote them and asked why my 891's were settling unevenly as I had three turns or winds of the coil touching on the D-side but only 1.5 touching on the P-side...

Jayson,

Sometimes on the LH drive vehicles, you need to swap the rear coils left to right after they have settled in, so having one side start to lean after a years use isn't necessarily bad. However, if you have coils touching each other on one coil, but not the other tells me that the coil has probably gone flat from coil bind. If you are using the 891s on a 4Runner, how much did you lower the rear bumpstop?

The 891 coils are a heavy coil for the 4Runner, so you shouldn't have a sagging issue unless you have been loading (or towing) more than their rate is able to handle

So, I emailed him back and told him I didn't lower my bumpstops and that I was just using the long cones witht he rear coils...

I am guessing, and without seeing them this is only a guess from your description, that they've been overcompressed. The 890s and 891s were never designed for the 4Runner due to the amount of lift you get. Once you go above the 2" range you should be lowering the bumpstops to keep from over compressing them. When the coils start dropping down to where they are touching each other, that is often the cause.

Here are the coil free height specs:
420mm
410mm

That is the measurement of the coil out of the vehicle and measuring directly through the coil from the further tip to furthest tip. If you pull out the coil that has the winds touching I think you'll find it under spec.



So, I pulled off the coils and measured them as he instructed and much to my surprise, they were only 5mm( 3/16ths") below spec, both coils had settled evenly over the course of a year. I swapped sides as he suggested and things have been even in the rear since. Also, I have since added longer frame mounted stops so I won't risk over-compession.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought it was info worth sharing, and more proof that theres more to lifting these rigs than just swapping some springs or adding a spacer.

bamachem

^ VERY good info.

COYOTA $x$

For additional reference:

OME 892 coils (measured fresh outta the box)

390mm left hand (as marked)
400mm Right hand (as marked)

sschaefer3

Put the longer (Right Hand) side on the drivers side.


Also I always said you need to lower the stops. I have had mine lowered since 2001.

COYOTA $x$

will do both

While we're here, AllPro has both 2" spacer and 1" spacers that are less costly upfront than the CornFed spacers. http://www.allprooffroad.com/tacoma.htm



Is the 2" a reasonable subsitute for the 1.5 Cornfed and Revtek topout when doing a Frankenstein front end ?

sschaefer3

Nope, they are completely different and your results will be completely different. Like the Daystar, the All Pro's have to be used with stock shocks.

I doubt even Daystar or All-Pro even realize that.

ErikB

Good info.

Wheeler's claims the 881's give 1.75-2" of lift on a 4runner (a stock one, I presume). How much extra weight do you think he's got w/ the TJM, skids, and sliders? Maybe that has something do do w/ smaller lift...

I'm looking for ~3" lift for a mainly street-driven '97 to fit 285's. My plan is the ~2" OME 881/N91SC front 890/N86C rear plus some Cornfed spacers. The problem is what size for the Cornfeds... I was thinking 1", but then some people say the OME is less than 2" to start, so maybe 1.5" front...

I also don't know whether on Cornfed's site they say " 1" spacer " they mean the spacer is 1" tall, or the *lift* from the spacer is 1"...
My guess is a 1" tall spacer would give 1.25-1.5" lift, so that combined w/ OME's slightly less than 2" lift would give me the 3" I want.....

Its good to know the rear lift is pretty much "as advertised" though.

loosehead

Cornbred spacers are sold by the amount of lift they provide, which for a rear spacer, is pretty much the dimension of the spacer. For the front, the measurement of the spacer is not the same as the amount of lift it yeilds.

ErikB

I guess I'll probably need 1.5" front and 1" rear spacers then... Thanks.

bamachem

If you want 3" on a mainly street 4unner, then do a cornfed 2.5" spacer up front on the stock coils (or new 99/00 coils) and some downey rears w/ OME n91S up front and n86's in the rear. Get 99 coils w/ the 2.5" spacer and keep the conical bumpstops in the rear and you'll sit perfectly level and have a VERY NICE ride w/ good on and off-road manners.

Gadget

I just upgraded my rear OME from 891 to 892. The new 892 where not listed as R & L, but are listed as A & B now. The longer one went on the driver's (US) side. I also installed new firm rear shocks.

This was done to compensate for my Safari rear draw system that added a good bit of weight. I was not so concerned about lift height, but swaying on the highway. The new stiffer springs tightened things up very nicely. No more sway, and the off road articulation is the same as before. Lift in the rear was increased 1 inch with the same weight in the rear.

The fronts were upgraded to DR coil overs. These are some excellent coil overs. Ride and handling was improved over the SAWs I had in there. I don't know how they did it, but the ride is much smoother is greatly improved on road, off road, going over and off of rocks, and so on. I have yet to find any bad manners with them.

Last year at Paragon, as I came off of rocks the front would crash down hard and slam the skid into the rocks. This year with the DRs going over the exact same rocks and other obsticals there was no slamming down coming off of obsticals. Very smooth and controlled. There was another guy in the group that had SAWs, Kings, now DRs on a Tacoma and he said the very same thing that I had noticed. Also, when they do bottom out, it is very soft and does not jolt the truck like everything I had before.

All around, in all driving conditions the DRs seem to be a dramatic improvement.

The only down side I have found is that to adjust the passenger side height I have to pull the assembly from the truck to crank in more lift. That only takes about 5 minutes to do. There just is not enough room to work that spanner wrench properly.

Gadget

ErikB

Hell, I might as well just get the 3" spacers then and not worry about any new front coils. I was planning on doing the diff drop anyway.

Downey's w/o spacers would be cheaper/simpler too.

I'll probably stick w/ the "comfort" shock valving though. This one won't spend significant amount of time offroad, that's what the '86 is for. Just a looks-lift mainly... the wife doesn't want to have a truck that "looks like a car."

Thanks for the suggestions.

sschaefer3

I would look at this, simple, strong, cheap and Hammers "Aftershock" proven.

http://fastq.com/~sschaefer/ultimate_spacer.html

Over 2" of spacer lift, I would advise against, since it greatly starts to degrade the performance.

loosehead

^^^ what he said. I really like my Frankenstruts

ErikB

"Degrade the performance..." Care to elaborate?

I looked at your setup earlier. Doesn't look like it would be much different than a Daystar 2.5" kit w/ OME shock...?
What's the story w/ the 99/00 coils? One extra wrap= softer spring rate? Taller? Where are you buying them? Dealer? Hate to think $$$...

Hmm... Downey rears aren't cheap at all, esp. for the 3.5" kit.

sschaefer3

Sure. The key to spacers is where you put the "meat" and how much you add "inside" the strut and how much you add "outside" the strut.

The stock front shock is what most of these companies have used to develop there kits. IE: Daystar, All-Pro and anyone who places more than 3/8" above the top plate. The stock shock is 1 3/4" shorter than a Bilstein, OME, KYB, etc.....

What Daystar and others do is add a top out spacer to make the stock shock the same length as an after market shock. They then add a spacer inside the pack for the 2nd half of the lift. These type of spacers work well with a stock shock. The spacer inside the strut typically only provides around 1 ¼” of lift and the top put spacer provides the other 1 ¼”.

If you use them on an Aftermarket shock, you will be the same 1 3/4" longer as well as a 1” plus top spacer which is more than the vehicle will allow, what happens is that the upper ball joint will slam/crash into the coil spring. This will rip the ball joint boot and over extend the joint and well and mar the heck out of the coil.


The Cornbred spacer places all of the "meat" inside the strut, so the all of the lift is obtained my making the spring longer within the compressed area. These spacers are great in smaller lift amounts but at 2.5" or 3", you really have that 14" coil smashed down. Your 14” coil is crushed down to 11” standing still. It becomes quite a bit stiffer since all it's already quite compressed to begin with.

The Downey & All Pro spacer places all of its lift above the shock mounting point.

The Daystar & Revtek split the load, over the top and inside.

The Cornbred places everything inside.


These differences make each spacer work very different in the real world. Extremely different.

What I have found is that the MOST you can place above an aftermarket shock is the Revtek 3/8" top out spacer, the advantage of a top out spacer is you lengthen the coil without compressing it. So then all additional lift must come from "inside" the strut, but you don't want to go too far or you will get the "squashed spring" stiff ride and hard to compress syndrome.

So hence, 1/2" of lift above, via a Revtek top out and 1.5" of lift inside via a Cornbred.


When ordering spacers from Cornbred you order the lift amount, for example a 2" spacer is in real life around 1 1/4" thick.

I'm welding away right now and this is really all I can type out right now.

BajaRunner

Schaefer,

Since we are on the subject, I would like to ask a quick question.

First off, I have OME springs shocks at all four corners. After installing, I noticed that the front was extremely shorter than the rear.

I just went ahead and bought 1.5" daystar spacers. These were installed and still, I am sitting a lot lower in the front than I am in the back.

Last week, I ordered 2.5" cornfed spacers, and am hopefully going to level out my 'runner.

Will this be okay ? I already have my diff. drop installed...and things seem to be straight in that department.

sschaefer3

Ok I have a welding break,

Why the stock coils:

1. They are the softest and easiest to compress @420 versus 500 for the 881.

2. Highest manufatureing quality. They are extremly well made, from day 1 to day 1000 they will always be 14". They don't sag. I'm not talking about the 96-98 front coils here or the 01-02, were talking 99's.

3. 1999 Model year. 1996, they blew it and rolled out new springs for 97 & 98. Then in 1999 they over compensated the effects of the new "fat lip" front bumper and crush beam, the truck sat higher than 96-98. 2001-2002 the "SUV of death" media blitz hit and they lowered it back down.

So the 1999 front coil are the longest, yes that extra wind is worth an inch of lift. Some 98's and some 2000's will have these, depending on when they got a new batch of coils at the factory, they seemed to have strarted mid 98 and stoped mid 2000.

4. Cheap, $120 for both the left and right from an online dealer.

5. A specific left side and a specific right side so the truck site level.