node

Ok, first dont flame me. I have done some physical research with these components side by side.

I have another spare 5VZ-FE engine sitting at the shop awaiting a transmission. So, I took off the valve cover and discovered that the intake cam on the right side of the engine has the same notch that the camry 3vz-FE cams have for the distributor. After I saw this I looked for the casting numbers on the cam shaft and found that they are the same as in the es300 and camry casting numbers. The spacing for the lobes, journals, everything is the same. I believe that the cam blanks toyota used for the two engines are exactly the same. The only difference is most likely the grind on the lobes.

I have a suspicion that the reason the camry 3VZ has a longer power band is because of a slightly longer duration cam shaft. This would also explain the big difference in torque between the engines. The .4L of displacement alone would not cause the 5VZ to have that much more torque?

My question is, has anyone put 3VZ-FE cams into a 5VZ to improve the top end power? Basically you would sacrifice a little low end torque for much a much more broad power band. If so do you have any input for me? I would really like to try this.

tc

Do a search - there's an extensive discussion about the difference between the 3VZE and 3VZFE and the differences in the power bands between all the engines...

node

Yes, I read that. Its states what was redesigned etc... what it doesnt state is if anyone has actually tried a CAM swap. I am NOT talking about swapping the heads. Im interested in just swapping the cams from the short duration/high torque 5VZFE cams to the long duration/higher HP 3VZ FE DOH cams from a camry.

Silver_Truck

Do you have easy access to the camry cams? I'd give it a shot if for sure they'll fit, sounds like a good idea (I'm guessing this is for the MR2), the thing i'd be worried about is more lift (possible interference) and any ecu changes you'd need.

node

I sort of have access to the camry cams (would have to pull them from a working camry LOL). I do know that the cams have the same spacing etc... Since Im not a toyota tech, what I dont know is the journal diameter.

Here are the firing orders for the 5VZ-FE, 3VZ-FE and, the 3VZ-E so I know the cam lobe profiles have the correct orentation. I doubt the cams have more lift (that would be sweet if they did) so most likely, you could retain the non interfearence feature of the engine.



This would be a nice cheap mod for all you mudders who dont tow big heavy things or those of you with superchargers to make up for the slight loss of low end torque. You guessed it though Silver_truck I would be using the cams in the MR2. As always I want to share what works with the yotatech community. I will be doing my first turbo 4runner in a couple of weeks and it would be nice to be able to swap some cams in too As for the ECU changes, most people swapping cams will most likely have some sort of piggy back already that they could use to clean up the fueling.

Silver_Truck

maybe you could contact toyota and if you got a friendly service guy he could look it up for you. Otherwise all I could think of is you'd have to test em...good luck!

Toysrme

Me & johnny keep talking about doing it, but I don't have a spare set of cams. :cry:
Power gains from displacement are linear. 3.4 / 3 = 1.13. So you can account for a 13.3% gain from displacement from a 3vz-fe.
I would expect yall to jump 13.3% from the 94+ 3vz-fe's that make more power (Not so de-tuned).
200 * 1.13 = 226bhp
204 * 1.13 = 230lb-ft
You're gonna be trading some low end for a lot more high, but I don't think you'll have a problem with it.
Cam regrinds are only around $200-220 most places.

noahrexion

Do you have access to a micrometer? You should measure the lobes on each if you ever pull those camry ones out. This seems REALLY interesting becuase I bet those camry cams could be had for very cheap at a variety of car yards.

Please pleae keep everyone updated if you decide to go ahead and pull the camry cams.

node

Yea, the idea is to spread out the power a lot. At the maximum torque point the engine pulls like crazy with the turbos but its difficult to shift so that you land near that power spike. With a longer power band, the engine will be able to take advantage of the short gearing of this transmission.

Toysrme, quick question about regrinds. I have found several places that will do that for 3VZ-FE cams. Wont I need all new shims since the closed valve position will have a smaller diameter? Second, with a smaller lobe diameter, won't I be putting more stress on the lifter buckets. Im concerned about that since I plan on a 7K+ RPM redline with the new pistons and valve springs. Finally, have you heard of anyone switching to the shim under bucket lifters?

node

I just did a interchangeable parts search for 1993 camry 3.0L 3VZ-FE V6 cams and guess what came up as compatible: yup 1996 3.4L 4runner 5VZ-FE. Hmm... Im going get a set, mic em and see what happens. Hopefully I can find some with very little use so I dont have to adjust the lash on too many valves.

Ill keep you guys up to date.

Toysrme

Yes you'll need new shims for the buckets.
Yall will also need valve springs.
We (Johnny & I) find that some of the 1mz-fe's valvetrain hardware is closest to the 5vz-fe.
None of them are 100% the same thing.

Most shops will do shimming for not too much.

node

Shop!! PShhhh I dont need no stinking shop. I can re-shim the head myself. I have looked into the valve springs of several toyota engines and found quite a few will work. Most of them have the same diameter spring but different closed heights so ill probably have to test a few. Not really a big investment since I can order 1 spring at a time for each motor that I think may be close (thanks toyota). I have compiled a big list of possibly compatible springs along with their stats so I have been doing my homework.

Toysrme

No need for uselessly buying ÅÅÅÅ.

Engine:
Valve spring:
out of square limit
free length
installed height
Valve Lifter:
diameter
lifter bore diameter
lifter to bore clearance normal - service limit

5s-fe
0.079"
1.652" to 1.531"
1.366"
1.2191" to 1.2195"
1.2204" to 1.2212"
0.0009" to 0
0022"
3vz-fe
0.075"
1.63"
1.11"
1.2191" to 1.2195"
1.2204" to 1.2212"
0.0009" to 0.002"
0.0031"
1mz-fe
0.079"
1.719"
1.331"
1.2191" to 1.2195"
1.2205" to 1.2211"
0.0009" to 0.002"
0.0028"

node

Awsome, thanks for the list. You are still thinking V6 though. There are high revving turbo toyota motors that have valve springs that are compatible with the 5VZ aswell Would you have a list of the springs for the GTE heads aswell?

paddlenbike

iTrader: (1)

I would like to move my powerband up as well. It really took me by suprise the first time I wound out my 3.4 how quickly the power fell off at the top end. Even my 3.0 would easily pull to 5700 RPMs. The DOHC 24V 3.4 should pull better and the cams are surely the culprit.

dexter

man if this works im soo in

oly884

Yeah, I noticed that too. The 3.0 pulled pretty good at the top end, but the 3.4 doesn't really do so well.

While this is appealing, I'd say count me out if it takes ANYTHING from the low end. The low end is much more important to me than the top end is. Now, if it gave a bit on the low end and top end, I'm in! I do too much driving around in town, on the interstate, and in the mountains to loose the low end.

node

I have a set on order, you guys will know soon If it works im going to order the turbo regrinds for the 3VZ-FE and put them into my 3.4

ebelen1

Oh man, this is a mod I'd love to do. Let us know soon.

99_Runner

Can't wait for the outcome of this. Could be an awesome setup.