AxleIke

This thread has gotten unbelievably far afield from whence it came.

I hope that people can understand that this is a difficult issue, one which many people feel very passionate about, on both sides of the fence. I think that one has to have a bit of a tougher skin in this arena, and i hope that we can keep the discussion going, and try not to take anything to heart.

As far as greenies are concerned, with the term, i use it to refer to people who are adamant about shutting down the wilderness for ALL motorized use. I enjoy the environment, and i have no problem with regulations that are in place to maintain a healthy ecosystem. I love to fish, i love the mountains, and i love hiking around up there. But that isn't what i consider a greenie.

There are crazy people on both sides of the fence. We've got JimBob and his fleet of ATV's, lifted F-350, and his buddies dirt bike that ride all over creation, abusing the privalege. They've got the eco-pchyco's who will burn down a ski resort to protect an animal that isn't even living in the nearby area. The problem is, the Sierra Club is a HUGE organization, that, as was pointed out, has buisnessmen and lawyers by the score, and that is what limits our access to the land that should be ours to use.

The fact that the wall street journal would write an article like that is proof that it's a big deal to someone who doesn't like us. They don't write articles there about little things.

By the nature of our sport, we have a difficult time banding together. Keeping trails open takes money. In past "trail saving" threads, on this board alone, the overwhelming sentiment is apathy. Not many care. A poop load of people care about shutting us down, so the Sierra Club gets a lot of donations. It will click someday, but if some of us don't take a stand now, by the time the rest get their heads out of their asses, it will be too late.

Oh, and lets keep the term "liberal" out of this. It's not being used in the correct context, since "liberal" and "conservative" deal with a wide variety of social and ecomomic issues. True, most enviromentalists consider themselves "liberal", but not all "liberals" are environmentalists. As far as political issues are concerned, for the social ones, i would be considered a "liberal", though barely, and the economic ones, i am a "conservative". Call them "environmentalists". I think thats a term everyone can be happy with.

Numbchux

Just noticed that the article says Quimby is the FORMER CEO of Burt's Bees...upon digging, it doesn't appear that she has any stake in the company any more....

If you guys want to do something productive. write a letter to your state and federal senetors and representatives. a letter, not an email. evey a postcard has much better chance of getting read than an email. most congressmen have a secretary go through their email boxes and show them the ones worth reading. Tell them were you stand on issues like this, make sure they know what you beleive, and how you stand.

DON'T be offensive. be careful of your wording, otherwise you'll get dismissed. but make sure they understand that at least some of their constituants value their ability to enjoy the land this way.

another tidbit. the Minnesota congress almost made it completely and totally illegal to use an OHV (that includes bikes and ATVs). The House of Reps approved the bill, but the Senate turned it down....but just barely.

Our hobby is under the microscope. So be careful when posting pics (the extreme opposition likes to take things out of context). and make sure you are keeping it legal. the more illegal use there is, the more leverage there is for taking away legal places. Fighting here with other people who agree is pretty dumb. Get out and do something productive. has anyone written to the Wall Street Journal to inform them how wrong their article is?

04 Rocko Taco

Yup. :bigclap:

EDIT:
Thought you guys might want to read it. I doubt he ever will....
But I'll let you guys know if I hear anything back...


I do have to say, although I do respect your opinions and your position as a news writer, but I do believe that is some of the most slanted “reporting” - if you want to call it - that that I have ever seen. I’m not here to badger you, or to tell you to write something else, just to tell you that what you wrote is not an accurate picture of off-roading as a hobby, or of offroaders in general, and you made no mention of the LARGE Banner Organizations such as Tread Lightly! (Which I, and my entire Off Road Forum – www.yotatech.com - are members of) and the Blue Ribbon coalition and other such groups. Is it always your practice to bring the world such completely nonsensical one sided reporting? I would just ask that even if the world never hears about it, that you take the time to familiarize yourself with this, so that we may show even one mind the truths about our sport.

Here are some sources for you to look over, again I’m not expecting you to ever write an article about the pro’s of off-roading, but I doubt you are interested in that anyway. I just hope you will see the light and truth, and know the erroneous fiction of your article.

http://www.treadlightly.org/
http://www.sharetrails.org/
http://www.staythetrail.org/

Thank you for your time.


Chris Redd
DataStat Pharmacy Hardware Support
DataStat Pharmacy System Support
PerSe' Technologies

AxleIke

Chris, Right on man. I'm just working on my email to that "reporter" now.

Numbchux, you are EXACTLY right. I myself have written to Mark Udall, CO's representiative, district 2, about the closure of Carnage Canyon here in Boulder. I have written both letters and emails, but upon reading your post, i'll stick to letters. Hell, i don't even read half the emails i get, so i can't imagine what a Congressman gets.

Writing is just a start, we need to organize. I hope we can get this going soon. I'm looking into what groups are out there, and perhaps can get the ball rolling a bit. We'll see.

Numbchux

GOOD!!! I'm glad to hear there are some other people here who are working towards a solution, and not just arguing. I you 2, and others who have taken steps to protect the safety of our hobby.

I realize it's geared towards Minnesota. but www.MNOHV.org is a new organization that's tired of the total lack of action on the MN4WDAs part. we've already held a small rally at the state capitol, and had several speakers from many aspects of the issue speak, and it went incredibly well.
For clips of the local positive news coverage that was a result, Click Here

btw, I'm the one in the pinkish Hoody in the background of pic 1


I'm also a member of the North Shore Wheelers. which started just as a group of people who like wheeling together. but has evolved into a pretty active, positive group. we're in the process of holding an expo in a large parking lot in downtown Duluth next summer. trying to get some more positive media attention on the sport.

This has been a huge issue in MN in the last year, for obvious reasons...we almost lost what little we have. And there are a number of groups who have started being very active in the fight.

MNBOY

Glad to see someone taking action and finding ways to be heard. Having grown up there I still have a fondness for that area (probably obvious from the screen name) and keep being amazed by the direction the state government has taken towards off-roading. I know for a fact that the state has more than it's share of enthusiasts, so I'm assuming its again a lack of organization and PR. Many of the off road clubs across the country have issues with leadership, organization, and turning intent into action. It's refreshing to see that some can work through that and become effective at both enjoying the sport and preserving it.

WATRD

So, I have to ask...

Since you seem to be the one most critical of the off roaders in this thread, what are you doing to accomplish what you describe above?

MNBOY

I'm not sure where in this thread you think I'm being critical, I was congratulating and encouraging someone for taking action and I'm not sure how you could take that otherwise. You obviously have personal issues with me and want to start an argument, why not take them off-line if you really feel the need to vent.
I've tried to be helpful in this thread by offering my ideas and my advice, and will continue to do so.

WATRD

I think it started with your statement; "Off-roaders cannot continue to have the rednecks and backwoods militia-types speaking to the general public, no matter what percentage of the group is made up of these types." then continued with your taking the terms "tree hugger" and "greenie" personally, even though no one here directed them at you. I think that percentage comment was pretty revealing and sounds somewhat familiar.

I have no personal issues beyond the obvious. It sounds like you are full of advice, but with this statement; "I hope I can tear down the fences, and let those on both sides find a solution from there." as well as the ones that you wrote later, I don't think asking you what you personally are doing, beyond offering that advice, is unreasonable. Twice now you have ducked that question. Once when I asked if you were also offering advice to the tree huggers and greenies and once, just now, when I asked what you were personally doing.

Finally, I think that your statement to me, "we can just consider you objectionable, demeaning, or offensive and move on." back when you were being offended by the use of the terms "tree hugger" and "greenie" was a great way to start the venting...

MNBOY

I'm not sure what those obvious things are, but don't really care either.

This isn't about me, and it's absolutely none of your business what I do personally to support the activities I enjoy. When I have things to share that I think will help support the causes I believe in, I share them with the people and groups I think can benefit from that information.

Numbchux,
I'm interested in hearing more about the activities you and your group are participating in to support off roading, as well as details of the expo you are planning for summer. So people don't have to wade through all the crap in this thread, I'll start a new thread and discuss this more. Hopefully others can take away ideas from your plans and use them in their own areas.

WATRD

Fair enough. Do as you say, not necessarily as you do. Loud and clear.

Since you were telling others what they should do and seemed very interested in what they are doing, I didn't think it was unfair to ask if you were leading by example.

Apparently I was wrong.

Best of luck with your new thread where you can continue with that...

MNBOY

I'm not asking anyone to do what I say, or what I do. I'm giving my opinion and assuming they are smart enough to make their own decisions.

I am telling no one what to do, only giving suggestions for possible actions. And in the very few instances that I am am leading, I am leading by example.
You were.
Thanks. For those interested, the thread can be found here:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f139/thing-do-support-our-sport-101119/
Otherwise I'll try to check this one on occasion and keep it entertaining.

WATRD

Beating a dead horse? Perhaps I am, but that seems to conflict with your opinion of those here who would surely consider themselves to be off roaders:

Food for thought anyway. Perhaps you are correct (the second time) and people will consider the source.

Anyway, that horse is surely sufficiently tenderized by now, even for my tastes.

MNBOY

Strike a nerve, did we?

WATRD

Huh?

We who? You were the one complaining about the use of the terms and I bet if you spent any time at all giving your helpful advice on the tree hugger/greenie forums, you would really get your feelings hurt by the words they used...

MNBOY

My feelings are not hurt, I'm actually having fun.

Now is that www.treehugger.com or www.greenie.org?

WATRD

Then I can only imagine what you sound like when your feelings really are hurt.

I am sure you will have no problems finding the appropriate forums if you decide to.

Have a nice night. You have said your piece and I have said mine. Now you are just trolling. Personally, I think the folks here are smarter than you implied and I am sure they will "get" the points that were made.

MNBOY

I really haven't said my piece, I just thought it was fun to see you get worked up. As far as folks getting it, I'm sure they do. I'm sure folks are more bothered by my cluttering up this thread than they are about your creative misinterpretation of the things I've written. I'm sure folks will see the difference between someone trying to be helpful and a poser that talks more and does less. Some folks will have been smart enough to stop reading after the first couple posts and won't ever get this far.

"smarter than you implied".......that's so clever.

WATRD

hahahahhahahhahahahahahaha!

Helpful? You haven't offered anything new. We need to be organized. Yep, we know that. We need to look presentable. Sure, we know that too... Thanks for the help!

I guess we are comparing apples and oranges. I wouldn't take much searching on this forum or on a few others to find at least something I have done to further the cause. Many have done more, but many more still have done less. At least there is some record there and I am not hiding behind "it's absolutely none of your business what I do personally to support the activities I enjoy".

Misinterpretation? By quotation? How is that possible? I have quoted your comments for that very reason.

As I said, have a nice night.

04 Rocko Taco

For any of those reading this thread that want to see a response from the author about his article.....[pointing WAAAY back to On Topic]

Check HERE:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f139/wheeling-wall-street-journal-response-author-101246/