tc

Read above - first and second gen can run 33x10.50 with no lift.

99_Runner

As I stated above, it's all about preference. I'm not trying to say that a Rubicon is better than a 4Runner. As X-AWDriver said, with the Rubicon you get full factory warranty on all of the parts that you would normally get used to do a sas on a 4Runner. If I had the money, and I didn't want something that would last me forever, I would get a newer Rubicon as they are cheap to build and parts are cheaper for them than the 4Runner. That being said, I don't have money and I do want a reliable vehicle that I don't have to worry about so I'll stick with my 4Runner and build it to out wheel those dang Rubicons.

grimpy

I was actually referring to this...


Looks like he was comparing a 95 Wrangler against a 99 4Runner...

kyle_22r

you see, this is a classic american folly. that is, thinking that a V8 is ALWAYS a superior engine to an inline 6. the AMC I6 that's used in jeeps puts out more torque than many V8 engines, at a lower RPM. not to mention that I6 engines are typically smoother and more reliable that your average V8(7 main bearings, anyone?).

my folks have had XJs and ZJs in the last decade, and they've been pretty reliable. as somebody above said, the biggest problem is with the transmissions(made by aisin, i'm not kidding), and the exhaust manifolds cracking.

paddlenbike

iTrader: (1)

The Aisin trannys are not troublesome, it's the trannys made by Peugot that didn't hold up. The AX15 5-speed in the Cherokee is the same as the R150s used in V6 Toyotas and very similar to the R154 in my Supra Turbo. (The gear ratios are different though.) BTW, I'm making 425 hp and 485 ft lbs of torque and I am no where near the limits of the R-series Aisin tranny.

91 4Runner

I guess I should have put that on my Runner I can run 33's no lift... As far as the comparasin goes it was actually a 95/2000 Wrangler and a 96/99 Runner....But the the comparasins were really for wheelbase/cargo area/impact strength - For what consumers really want...

kyle_22r

i know about the AX5 and AX15(G52 and R150F respectively), but i was referring to the AW4 slushbox. some like them, but they have always started slipping after a while for us.

Keggo

That liberty video is hilarious... Also, I fit 33x12.5's on my truck with no lift and a lot of a$$ sag...

rentedmule

I have a 93 4runner and a 93 YJ and i'd take the runner any day. biggest prob with the YJ is space. I'm about 6' tall and the driver's seat in the YJ is way too close to the dash for me, at least 6-8". rediculously uncomfortable as a daily driver, at least in my opinion. It also seems to have alot less ground clearance than my 4runner (i've never measured it but i definately can't just roll under my YJ like i do my runner!). Can't really say much about reliability, for the above reasons it doesn't really see the miles that the runner does. Pro's on the YJ are the convertible top, you can basically hose out the interior, and mine has a big-a$$ winch on it (it needs it more than my yota)!

AlexJet

You've mentioned ground clearance. I'm not sure about 2nd Gen. and YJ, but I can tell you facts comparing 4th Gen. with TJ. This October I took my new 4Runner to the trails first time in his life. 4Runner handle easy trails pretty well, I didn't stuck. But I can't tell the same to my skid plate. At that time my 4Runner was 100% stock. My skid plate was looking like I slide on it whole trail from the beginning to the end, it was all scratched and had ~10 deep dents. At the same time TJ, which was in front of me didn't hit his skid plate or any other underbody parts not even ones. I was hitting every rock, every stone on the trail by my skid plate and exhaust. This shows up that stock 4th Gen. 4Runner has less clearance then stock TJ.
I completely agree that with a lift and good tires I'd be at least not worse then TJ, probably better. We had slightly modified 3rd Gen. on that run and I remember he gone all the way on medium level without any problems.

jeremys73

A big difference is the wheelbase and how they ride. Jeep=short wheelbase, two solid axles... bumpy see-saw ride....

As far as reliability go... Maybe in the past the jeeps where truely heeps... but give them a few years with Daimler running stuff and I bet they're as reliable or more reliable than a toyota...

That's the future men and women... If toyota doesn't start coming out with a solid axle front to compete with an ultra reliable Mercedes Jeep Rubicon with Mercedes Diesel option... I'll see you boys at the Jeep dealership.

And now the Jeep has an extended wheelbase model so nevermind about the wheelbase argument... Pretty soon Toyota 4x4s will be classed with others like the Isuzu 4x4, and Honda CR-V. It's true and everyone here knows it. Toyota is WEAK by not offering a SA front. And they'll see a sales hit when Daimler has their way with the Jeep. A Jeep with a Mercedes Diesel and SA f/r. A Jeep more in tune with a Mercedes G-Wagon than a soft riding, leather pampered, traction controled weak little toyota 4Runner that soccer moms buy.
Does the truth hurt... somebody better email Toyota then

If you want a true off-road vehicle, get a wrangler. If you want a livable DD and capable 4x4, toyotas are pretty good. If you want to see a major difference in the two... Roll a wrangler then roll a 4Runner and see what happens to the two and which is easier to fix.

jeremys73

Has anyone looked at Jeep's concepts? Toyota better step up or stand down.

They've already dropped the 2.8L Diesel in the Wrangler (from the factory) LINK
LINK

tc

Ultra-capable off road vehicles is a very small niche market more than amply covered by the Jeep Rubicon. It would be impossible to make a business argument for Toyota to start importing a vehicle like that.

So, unless we get everyone with a TRD Taco and 4Runner out on the trail realizing what an asset a locking diff is and "create" the market for super articulation to go with it, no businessman in their right mind is going to sell a vehicle like that.

FUZION

traitor

jeremys73

LoL, Not a traitor, just pissed that we can't get the good toyotas here in America. I would love to have one of the basic, no-frills, solid axle, diesel yotas...

I think we need to contact J.W. Bush and have him call Toyota about this terrorist act against America... or, maybe have a trade embargo that toyota must only sell solid axles to help GM out....

I'm sorry to say it but my next truck purchase will more than likely be a Jeep with the Mercedes diesel... I just don't like IFS. I don't like the way they go over speed bumps at an angle or anything... I don't like cushy shocks, I like a truck to drive like a truck.

jeremys73

I'm sure this has been hashed out many times here but most other countries get a choice of which front end they want. Kinda like "do you want that with an automatic or 5-speed, and would you like the IFS or SA"

Easy as that... just like they already do in most of the world...

X-AWDriver

The concept Jeep needs to try before Toyota gets worried is the concept of quality.

Flamedx4

Well, I can tell you, my TJ will do things with ease I could never do with my 4Runner equipped much the same way. And you guys can put away the quality argument, that was long ago. The current 4.0 is dead reliable and an amazing engine, - it pulls strong from idle to redline - it has really impressed the he$$ out me. BUT - the TJ is a lot less comfortable and you can't put much in the back, not much at all...

kyle_22r

and not to mention most TJs/all jeeps for that matter came with crummy axles underneath!

bamachem

you've never driven a heep, have you??? i got a 2006 wrangler unlimited during my trip to AZ. picked it up at 9pm for a 4-day trip and drove it 6 miles to the hotel. called hertz after unpacking the bags and confirmed for a ford mustang convertible and dropping off the heep the next day. it was returned to hertz by 9am the next morning and swapped for the ragtop mustang - couldn't have been happier.

no leg room - ZERO for all occupants.
uncomfortable seats.
crappy dash instrumentation and interior ergonomics
zipper rear window with no alarm = easy target
oh, and that zipper was seized on our top - and it only had 7k miles on it in ARIZONA.

i hated it. so much so that there's NO WAY i'd want a newer wrangler -even a Rubicon or Rubi-Unlimited. i'd do a 70's CJ WAY before i dropped that much money on something so craptacular.