DealMaker

Hello Everyone,

Great site you all have here. My Q is this, I recently picked up a 2004 4X4 Sport, V8, and am researching options for lift and suspension. I came across the Downey lift for an '03 4Runner here (http://www.downeyoff-road.com/Suspen...ents/index.htm). I haven't found any info here on Yotatech for this product. Anyone know anything about it? Or about any other 4th Gen suspension alternatives (I'm aware of the Nitrous Ent. product)? I'm hoping to see at least three different mfg's. provide a product so I can feel like I have a choice before I drop the dough. Ideally, a product that provides lift, travel, and most important of all is well thought-out. Now that I think about it, the XREAS would probably render the Downey product a no-go. ANyway, in addition to the lift that adds suspension travel, I want to attain ground clearance by adding larger tires (32"??).

Good Times

Since you have the xreas suspension you can not go with any suspension setup that replaces your shocks. (this includes all coilover technology and shock and coil technology). Unless you plan to remove your xreas system, you're stuck w/ the spacer technology. This is due to the fact that there are no companies that sells xreas compatible shocks at the current time.

Currently available spacers:
Daystar
Revtek
Nitrous Enterprises

Just get any 3" lift and call it a day as anything higher using the stock setup is not recommended.

With any of these setups, you'll be able to run 285's with LOTS of trimming of course. if you don't want to then just stick to 265.70.17's as that's one size up.

Lastly, you have the SPORT model so you have 17's which prevents you from getting smaller wheels so good luck finding tires/wheels accordingly.

I hope this info helps as the xreas is your biggest bottleneck. Good luck! Btw, don't forget to post those photos for us to drool on!

bulldog-yota

Good summary Lance.

As Lance said with the sport you have 2 limiting factors, 17" wheels and XREAS shocks. WHile they work great on raod they are not ideal for of road.

That being said, I have a LTD with XREAS and 17" wheels. I use it as my DD and I have somewhat of a commute. SO I went for the Daystar lift (2.5" or so) and the Revo's. AFter a few trips I stil find my ground clearance lacking a bit, especially by the fuel tank (which hangs lower than the frame the egineer was probably on lunch break at design). So I would not recommend the Daystar lift with the other two availible. It does give you the least change in stock suspension feel, but also the least amount of lift.

I would recommend you check out the Revtek and NE kits. The advantage the NE kit seems to have is that it includes a rear shock relocater, which will allow for a bit more droop in the back.

On tires if you are looking for 32" with 17" wheels, you have to good options in the BFG AT KO or the Bridgestone AT Revos for AT tires. I prefer the Revo, but some others prefer the BFG. Or you can go with the Goodyear MTR for MT's (I'm still scetical to use MT for a dd with doing lots of miles).

Also another thing you might want to look at is sliders to replace the running boards. I'm looking at the Hanna sliders (thread in this section), as they require no drilling or welding of the frame (I'm still worried about the Xreas reserviors on the side of the frame). I haven't got mine yet, but will report back later when I have tested them.

So hopefully between Lance and myself we have given you enough ideas to blow your $$$$.

DealMaker

Yes, I spent 5 hrs. last nite reading the threads here. Learned about the issues with rolling the 17", and the XREAS hot-potato. My ride is a DD as well, which is more of a concern to me than having it be a hardcore 4wheeler. As such, it performs FLAWLESSLY! The power and ride is unreal. Still, its unfortunate the engineers didn't try to salvage more ground clearance on the redesign. Then again, I haven't gone offroad in it yet. Planning to go to DV in a few weeks, though. At the time of purchase I didn't think I return to any hardcore 4-wheeling, but have recently changed my mind and want to get futher away. Oh, BTW I saw the Hanna sliders and am digging them, just not sure if I'd put them to any use yet. I want to see a real suspension kit and HD skid plates. Also, what the h*ll is that thing 1/2" away from the top of the front tire (inside)? Control arm balljoint? Is it my imagination, or is that a problem waiting to happen? Don't remember seeing that on my last two Runners. Perhaps instead of dropping the dough on the Runner I should pick up a used LC. Saw a soccer Mom FJ80 advertised for $6K, 100K miles. Hmmm...

Good Times

Unfortunately, you'll never see a real suspension kit for the xreas system as I highly doubt it's marketable and cost effective on the vendor to create a special shock for the xreas.

That said, you're definitely going to be limited to the spacer technology. NE has expressed some interest in making something for the xreas in terms of full suspension kit but the likelihood is slim as they have not made any firm decisions on this. I'm pretty certain that no other vendor will be making anything for the xreas as I've yet to see something for them to begin with.

The upper and lower arms are ball joints as they have been with the 3rd gen as well.

Downey is the only company that makes HD skid plates that replaces the stock 2 piece design to a single piece design. This is the exact dimension as the stock 2 piece. But if you're looking for skid plates, I'm sure any local welder can fab one up for your liking.

Good luck

FirstToy

Lance,
This brings up something I'm not clear on. The higher you lift, the shorter your A-arms become correct? Meaning your track is narrowing as you lift.

Besides the CV's, the a-arm ball joints are the real concern it seems?

I like the Daystar/Revtek to keep as close to factory handling while giving just that extra for off-roading. I actually wouldn't want it any higher than 2.5"- 3" personally.
If I were building up something seriously for off road, you have to go coilovers right? Longer shocks, etc.
The Donohoe coilovers look awesome, that's something for you Lance! I actually want those after I hit 60,000K+ miles.

r0cky

You guys can get any amount of lift from us that you want, the only thing I'd warn of as far as Revtek goes is that if you have XREAS, you are wasting a bit of money by buying that kit because it comes with longer rear shocks and that costs a lot. My longer rear shocks are still sitting on my fireplace.

32" tires would fit fine with 3" of lift, but I wouldn't go much shorter than that if you are planning on stuffing 32" tires in there. I have 32.4" tires, and even with my 4" lift I had to do a good deal of trimming.

DealMaker

OK. That was the one generation I've never owned. Lance, your front plates look pretty tough. I've got the Demello website bookmarked and will check it out as well. Have you seen this ride? http://www.safarigard.com I'm not sure if those bars would hold up to much. They seem kinda small in diameter. As for the lift, I'd really want to go up a few inches, 2-3", if it means I could get another 2+ inches of ground clearance. I guess the only way to get that clearance would be to put on a tire that's 4" higher than factory. Has anyone removed the body cladding to see what the lines underneath look like? I'm kind of all over the place right now, but thinking my first (and probably only) mod's will be minor lift, bigger wheels/tires,heavier plates and new sliders, and probably a Warn hitch-mount winch to pull myself out of whatever I get into. Would also like to cut those ugly tiedown loops in the front off and put on the real hooks like the early Toy's had. Those tiedown loops are going to give someone the bad idea of using them as a recovery point.

Good Times

In theory the more you lift, the narrower your track would be (just by observation). But I think since the lift itself is very insignificant, you really won't notice much difference there. You won't even see your wheels butterfly either so in that sense, there's really no worries.

I'd say if you're just lifting using spacer technology, 2.5-3" is definitely safe. The biggest concern comes from the limiting stock droop that it can handle as it looks to be around 4". You basically don't want to run it at full droop with no travel left. Thus riding around 3" with 1" to spare for the spacers is ideal. I could be dead wrong on all of this but this is just some preliminary measurements on the stock stuff when I had em on which has been awhile.

By replacing the entire suspension to a coil and shock or a coilover, you'll be able to regain an inch or two so that'll give you more downward travel so in that sense a full upgrade is always a good idea. This means the replacement shock will regain the 1" and then you'll be able to go 3-3.5". The only problem w/ the xreas owners are that their shocks are the biggest bottleneck. (o well I guess)

With more lift, you'll experience more wear and tear on the rest of the suspension components. This is normal. I'm not sure if you'll rub your stock coils w/ the spacer lift (2.5-3") but I did notice abnormal rubbing on the coils when I had my stock UCA (upper control arms). Picking up either Inland Truck or Total Chaos UCA's will fix this problem.

You don't need to get the coilovers just to do hardcore stuff as a simple shock and coil assembly would suffice too (OME when they are available). The key is to gain more travel (which comes directly from the shock itself). The coilovers just give you that extra added feature to be able to adjust the height on the front accordingly as you gain more nose weight from items such as winches/bumper/lights/batteries..

I was considering the donahoe coilovers that are due at the end of the year but that is definitely out of my budget right now. Also I have some other plans in the mix so it looks like everything is just gonna get pushed back abit.

safarigard did have something but it looks like they're not doing anything anymore as I have heard from them or anyone running any of their products. It's unfortunate but don't worry, there are plenty of other vendors out there that can build armor.

Some vendors to consider since you're local to CA:
Demello Offroad
Ken Hanna
Stubbs Welding

All of them will be able to build ya some sliders for your 4runner. I know Ken Hanna has something in the works specifically for the xreas owners making them true bolt on (etc etc) so check them out on another thread that floating here.

Removing the cladding is easy, just don't break any of the tabs. And surprisingly the stock hoops are pretty sturdy. I've used these exact points to anchor a few vehicles and even use it as a recovery point. They are bolted to the frame itself so it is as sturdy as you removing them and adding your own hooks.

FirstToy

hmm, interesting. I hadn't checked for rubbing on the coils but I will. Can you hear it clunking at full turn or something?

Yup, that's why I like the Daystar lift, it's a DD so I want good overall handling. It's got enough clearance for most things I would do so I like it. Plus I can run the stock wheels/tires without looking stupid good for mpg's and wear &tear.

I do recommend getting sliders though because it is very easy to damage the rockers. I think they are more important if you have the stock height. I only had my truck a couple weeks before bending one of the running boards- just glad it didn't bend into the body. The lower you are, the more chance of damage so sliders are a good investment if you go off-roading even occaisionally, imo.

Hanna Quality and Demello are two I have seen personally. I would feel very confident about recommending either to anyone.

Safarigard are a-holes. Forget 'em. There are other Toyota specialists that will do a better job on armor for your truck.

r0cky

I have 4.5" of lift and no rubbing on the coils ... i couldn't be more happy with how it handles, either.

FirstToy, what lift do you have?

kickaha

The sad saga of owning a 4th gen with xreas. All the cool after-market stuff isn't out yet (still)! What's there to do?

I don't think there there are ANY after-market front or rear bumpers yet, are there? Hopefully ARB will come out with a front bumper in early 2005. Lance has a one-of-a-kind killer rear bumper. Maybe in a year or two, all these goodies will be available.

BTW, although NE's "default" spacer lift is 4", I believe they'll do any size or combination of sizes you'd like. So if you want a 3" or want higher in the front to level out your truck, they say they'll accomodate ya. And then you get the rear relocator mounts. I imagine you could get their lift without the relocator mounts to make it more like a Daystar lift too, but you'll have to ask them.

Gotta go drown my non-modded 4runner sorrows now.

Good Times

Rubbing of coils will be very apparent if you offroad and let your wheels droop (and i mean let it hang!). When the wheels drop all the way down, the likelihood that the arms will hit the coils are greater. Also keep in mind that I don't have my front sway bars connected anymore so I get that extra little travel from it so that could highly be the case.

No clunking at full turn. Actually no sounds right now. Aside the usual rocks/muds falling off and making sounds, my 4runner's been pretty lucky in terms of not having a lot of problems.

I do agree w/ FirstToy that sliders should be one to do before the lift as you really want to protect your body panels. ($$ to fix if you damage em). I've only seen Demello and Stubbs but I am pretty confident Hanna's stuff are just as good as the other two I've mentioned

DealMaker

Maybe I'll call around, like to TRD and Downey and perhaps a few others and see if their working on anything. I'll post the follow-up tomorrow. ALso, I saw the thread about the Hanna sliders. A reminder to those interested that it appears that a group buy is possible if 15 of us commit. Probably best to respond at that thread if interested. I may go ahead myself depending on what the price is. And yes, appears it will accomodate XREAS.

Good Times

TRD isn't doing squat. Downey won't have XREAS stuff. Hanna sliders does accomodate for xreas. I'm sure Stubbs and Demello can accomodate for xreas too.

Unfortunately, I don't think the vendors feel that it's in their best interest to make something for the xreas as they don't want to be liable for any problems, pit falls or voids in the warranty etc etc etc. Of course I could be wrong, but it does look grim. Spacers will work on xreas as long as you're careful during the installation but no spacer company (except for NE) will openly state that's XREAS compatible as they don't want to liable for the foul up during the install by the buyer.

Good luck!

kickaha

Hey Lance, what is the downside of removing the sway bar? I assume no safety issues?

BTW, that's a MIGHTY sweet rear bumper you got there. Hmmm, you live in Chino Hills, huh? Just down the street. Hmmm. I wouldn't leave it out at night.

Good Times

Downside on removing the swaybar would be umm... lots of body lean? All I can say is don't expect it to drive like a porsche. I'm a grandma driver on the 4runner so it really doesn't affect me but if I were to swerve pretty hard, I can feel the entire truck lean A LOT. Just makes me drive slower and more carefully since I know I don't have it on there anymore.

Sorry but the rear bumper is actually off now It's not going back on there anymore. I'm in the process of rebuilding a new bumper (phase 2) so the old bumper is now just going to sit in the garage perm.

If you're local to me, you're welcomed to come by and check out the ride. It's not sitting in Chino Hills but I can bring it there whenever If you find me in Chino Hills, all you'll find is my fj40 right now.