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Sorry I left out one important part. The 4 gauge wire goes directly from battery positive terminal, no relays no fuses, to the threaded stud of your starter. Careful with this as it will complete the circuit anywhere it touches. Connect starter end then battery end.
the signal wire will take some searching, I am not familiar with your year or engine to be much help there. The color schemes are generally common though. Through Radrunner's info you should be able to determine which color wire you are looking for.
Sorry I left out one important part. The 4 gauge wire goes directly from battery positive terminal, no relays no fuses, to the threaded stud of your starter. Careful with this as it will complete the circuit anywhere it touches. Connect starter end then battery end.
the signal wire will take some searching, I am not familiar with your year or engine to be much help there. The color schemes are generally common though. Through Radrunner's info you should be able to determine which color wire you are looking for.
I think I’ve tried that. I connected the battery positive to the threaded stud on the starter. Only thing is once I touched my ground terminal to my battery ground, my engine already starts cranking. Sound familiar? (Maybe I had it jumped and if it wasn’t maybe it would’ve made a difference. I hope not) I need the engine to crank from ignition or from a self made switch and completely delete the signal wire if possible.
... once I touched my ground terminal to my battery ground, my engine already starts cranking. ... I need the engine to crank from ignition or from a self made switch and completely delete the signal wire if possible.
No, not possible.
The solenoid functions as a very powerful, high-current relay for the starter (also to engage the pinion to the flywheel). No relay or switch you could (reasonably) buy could handle the 100+ amps the starter motor requires. Your solenoid is stuck closed; as soon as you apply battery + to the power stud, it (tries to) start.
In the US, most auto parts stores will test a starter for free. They'll tell you the solenoid is stuck. It is reasonable to rebuild the solenoid, but RockAuto has whole (reman) starter motors for not much money. More importantly, you need a real starter wire from battery + to the starter stud. Gevo guesses 4 gauge, and that sounds about right, but you're not going to be able to build one yourself with the tools you have. The end connectors have to be able to handle the high current, and the battery end is generally integrated into the battery clamp. (Also RockAuto.)
The solenoid functions as a very powerful, high-current relay for the starter (also to engage the pinion to the flywheel). No relay or switch you could (reasonably) buy could handle the 100+ amps the starter motor requires. Your solenoid is stuck closed; as soon as you apply battery + to the power stud, it (tries to) start.
In the US, most auto parts stores will test a starter for free. They'll tell you the solenoid is stuck. It is reasonable to rebuild the solenoid, but RockAuto has whole (reman) starter motors for not much money. More importantly, you need a real starter wire from battery + to the starter stud. Gevo guesses 4 gauge, and that sounds about right, but you're not going to be able to build one yourself with the tools you have. The end connectors have to be able to handle the high current, and the battery end is generally integrated into the battery clamp. (Also RockAuto.)
Ok I will test my starter once more with my battery positive connected to my screw terminal and then touch my ground. If I find that the solenoid is stuck I will go to Autozone or OReilly and get a new starter. But my only other question would be, what do I do now without the STARTER SIGNAL WIRE? In this photo explaining a typical wiring.. could I then change/delete my “ignition switch” to a regular switch through a 40A relay and land it to my solenoid with the new starter, with a 12 gauge wire? Or is the 12 gauge wire too small?
"Starter Signal Wire" is not a usual term for any wires in Toyotas. I'm guessing that is intended to refer to the wire from the ignition switch to the starter relay coil. Do you not have an ignition switch? In your very long initial post you make occasional reference to "the switch." What are you talking about?
Remember that the ignition switch switches a lot of stuff other than the starter. While it's possible to replace an ignition switch with a box of "ordinary" toggle switches, you really need to have some idea of what you're doing. And be very careful that those switches are operated in the correct order.
Everyone has to start somewhere, and YotaTech is a good place to go when you're just starting. But I get the sense that basic electricity is pretty new to you. Maybe you should find someone to partner with who has more experience (you will probably have to pay her). At a minimum, find and buy a complete wiring diagram for your year/model vehicle. YouTube is fun, but at this rate you'll eventually set your truck on fire.
"Starter Signal Wire" is not a usual term for any wires in Toyotas. I'm guessing that is intended to refer to the wire from the ignition switch to the starter relay coil. Do you not have an ignition switch? In your very long initial post you make occasional reference to "the switch." What are you talking about?
Remember that the ignition switch switches a lot of stuff other than the starter. While it's possible to replace an ignition switch with a box of "ordinary" toggle switches, you really need to have some idea of what you're doing. And be very careful that those switches are operated in the correct order.
Everyone has to start somewhere, and YotaTech is a good place to go when you're just starting. But I get the sense that basic electricity is pretty new to you. Maybe you should find someone to partner with who has more experience (you will probably have to pay her). At a minimum, find and buy a complete wiring diagram for your year/model vehicle. YouTube is fun, but at this rate you'll eventually set your truck on fire.
This is the signal wire I am referring to. Connecting from the engine into the starter solenoid.
My “switch” I’m talking about is a switch I wired myself to turn the starter on and off. I do know the ignition switch turns on other things but I’m gonna work on the ignition switch after because I have no starter relay (like I mentioned and put photos of) that would turn on when my ignition key is turned on. My intention is just to create a separate switch to just operate my starter alone (now not connected to my ignition switch) is that fine?
Earlier, you said that if you put battery voltage to the stud on the starter, as soon as you connected the battery ground the starter would try to spin (and incinerate the wimpy wire you were using). It that's happening with nothing connected to the solenoid connector on the starter, your solenoid is stuck and you have to fix that first. Your post is pretty rambling and non-descriptive, so it's always possible that my understanding doesn't match what you actually did.
Sure, you can have a separate push-to-start switch if your ignition switch is crapped-out. You need battery always-on through a fat wire (~4ga, with appropriate big-ass connectors) to the stud on the starter. The solenoid pulls about 5-10amps (I believe Rad4Runner measured his, so I defer to him). You can get a push button rated for that current, but if the contacts don't snap open and closed, you will quickly destroy the button. That's why your stock Toyota has a starter relay. The relay coil takes only a few hundred milliamps, and its contacts snap open and closed, so your push button is protected.
This is the signal wire I am referring to. Connecting from the engine into the starter solenoid.
My “switch” I’m talking about is a switch I wired myself to turn the starter on and off. I do know the ignition switch turns on other things but I’m gonna work on the ignition switch after because I have no starter relay (like I mentioned and put photos of) that would turn on when my ignition key is turned on. My intention is just to create a separate switch to just operate my starter alone (now not connected to my ignition switch) is that fine?
Originally Posted by scope103
Earlier, you said that if you put battery voltage to the stud on the starter, as soon as you connected the battery ground the starter would try to spin (and incinerate the wimpy wire you were using). It that's happening with nothing connected to the solenoid connector on the starter, your solenoid is stuck and you have to fix that first. Your post is pretty rambling and non-descriptive, so it's always possible that my understanding doesn't match what you actually did.
Sure, you can have a separate push-to-start switch if your ignition switch is crapped-out. You need battery always-on through a fat wire (~4ga, with appropriate big-ass connectors) to the stud on the starter. The solenoid pulls about 5-10amps (I believe Rad4Runner measured his, so I defer to him). You can get a push button rated for that current, but if the contacts don't snap open and closed, you will quickly destroy the button. That's why your stock Toyota has a starter relay. The relay coil takes only a few hundred milliamps, and its contacts snap open and closed, so your push button is protected.
Yea I tested that with a 4 gauge wire about a week ago. I had a battery positive with a 4 gauge wire connected to the terminal and then I ran the wire to my starter stud. I then put on my ground terminal and it would start cranking. I am going to retest that today to find out if my solenoid is stuck or not. If it is I will purchase another starter.
If it is not stuck I will run a switch to my starter solenoid since it pulls about 5-10 amps. But I will run the switch through MY OWN 40A relay. (Not a Toyota relay, since I don’t have a factory one in my truck at the moment)
Sound good?
I do have this Toyota relay I bought from NAPA 2 days ago. Does anybody know how to wire this? I am only familiar with the 30,85,86,87 relay.
If I don’t use this relay I’ll purchase a 40A relay to protect my switch.
there isn’t a ground terminal on the starter; it gets grounded through its mating surface with the the bellhousing.
Yea, I know this. I meant I already landed my battery positive wire to my starter (while the battery ground terminal is disconnected) Then when I put the ground terminal on the battery ground it starts to crank. I’m about to go through in about an hour and retest with my 4 gauge wire to see if the solenoid is stuck or not
Earlier, you said that if you put battery voltage to the stud on the starter, as soon as you connected the battery ground the starter would try to spin (and incinerate the wimpy wire you were using). It that's happening with nothing connected to the solenoid connector on the starter, your solenoid is stuck and you have to fix that first. Your post is pretty rambling and non-descriptive, so it's always possible that my understanding doesn't match what you actually did.
Sure, you can have a separate push-to-start switch if your ignition switch is crapped-out. You need battery always-on through a fat wire (~4ga, with appropriate big-ass connectors) to the stud on the starter. The solenoid pulls about 5-10amps (I believe Rad4Runner measured his, so I defer to him). You can get a push button rated for that current, but if the contacts don't snap open and closed, you will quickly destroy the button. That's why your stock Toyota has a starter relay. The relay coil takes only a few hundred milliamps, and its contacts snap open and closed, so your push button is protected.
Update:
Today I went in and tested if the solenoid was stuck. Just the battery terminal positive is landed on my starter motor. (In the picture below) I then went to touch my ground battery terminal on the battery and got no cranking. Good sign! I believe I had the starter motor and solenoid JUMPED together before because of that previous video I saw and that is what caused it to crank when the ground terminal touches the battery. Make sense?
Here is my battery positive landed
To my understanding all I need to do now is create a switch on a relay to plug into my solenoid. (To replace my ignition switch) correct? I will try that out and let you know how that goes.
ALOHA!
My comments in BLUE
So 30 (WHITE) is wired from my battery + into the relay (was fused with a 30A fuse) - Correct
86 (PINK) is wired to my switch - Correct, but if ignition switch ST1 is working, better to wire to original wire that used to be plugged into the control coil of the starter solenoid HERE. 87 (PINK) is connected to my solenoid and jumped into my screw on the starter. Wrong. I don't know what screw that is but 87 should go to the control coil of the starter solenoid HERE.
85 (GREEN) is grounded to my engine block. Good, but if you have a clutch safety switch, it should go there.
Sure, that should work. But just to help you get the big picture, why don't you crimp a female spade lug terminal (you seem to have enough) on a random piece of wire (14ga or thicker; this is just a quick test). Connect it to your solenoid connection on the starter, then touch the other end to battery +. It should crank just fine.
That wire sparked when you touched it to the battery; protecting your push-button switch from that sparking is exactly what your starter relay does.
Keep it simple and as close to stock as possible here...
In simplest terms but with details... Here's how to add a 5tarter r3l4y[:
CAVEAT:
WHEN THE 5TART3R R3LAY IS WIRED CORRECTLY SIMILAR TO LATER MODELS, IN THE UNLIKELY* EVENT THAT THE CONTACTS CLOSE* OR SHORT* FOR SOME REASON THE 5TART3R WILL CRANK EVEN WITHOUT IGN1T1ON_SW1TCH BEING TURNED ON. IF PARKED IN FIRST GEAR, TRUCK MAY MOVE AND CAUSE AN ACCIDENT. A K1LL SW1TCH BETWEEN THE FUSE AND THE RELAY PIN 30 IS HIGHLY-RECOMMENDED. JUST KEEP WIRE RUN TO MINIMUM AND DO NOT TELL US WHERE YOU PUT THE KILL SWITCH - LOL!
Use a relay with at least 30-amp rating. STRONGLY-RECOMMENDED to add kill switch between fuse and pin 30.
HERE'S HOW TO WIRE ADDED STARTER RELAY WHERE THERE WAS NONE
HERE'S SUGGESTED ACTUAL CONSTRUCTION OF RETROFIT
*CAVEAT:
WHEN THE 5TART3R R3LAY IS WIRED CORRECTLY SIMILAR TO LATER MODELS, IN THE UNLIKELY* EVENT THAT THE CONTACTS CLOSE* OR SHORT* FOR SOME REASON THE 5TART3R WILL CRANK EVEN WITHOUT IGN1T1ON_SW1TCH BEING TURNED ON. IF PARKED IN FIRST GEAR, TRUCK MAY MOVE AND CAUSE AN ACCIDENT. A K1LL SW1TCH BETWEEN THE FUSE AND THE RELAY PIN 30 IS HIGHLY-RECOMMENDED. JUST KEEP WIRE RUN TO MINIMUM AND DO NOT TELL US WHERE YOU PUT THE KILL SWITCH - LOL!
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 06-18-2020 at 08:17 PM.
ALOHA!
My comments in BLUE
So 30 (WHITE) is wired from my battery + into the relay (was fused with a 30A fuse) - Correct
86 (PINK) is wired to my switch - Correct, but if ignition switch ST1 is working, better to wire to original wire that used to be plugged into the control coil of the starter solenoid HERE. 87 (PINK) is connected to my solenoid and jumped into my screw on the starter. Wrong. I don't know what screw that is but 87 should go to the control coil of the starter solenoid HERE.
85 (GREEN) is grounded to my engine block. Good, but if you have a clutch safety switch, it should go there.
Awesome, so here’s another update. Just came back from the store to grab a relay and a in-line fuse
This is going into 30, only used wired nuts for testing purposes.. Fused with a 40A inline fuse Now this is the new relay. 30 (White) getting power from the battery +, and also fused with a 40A 85 being grounded (green) 86 (pink) going to my new switch and connected to the OFF position 87 (white) going into my starter solenoid The white going into my solenoid is 87. Is this 12 gauge wire okay for to connect into this solenoid or do I need a thicker wire? Again the 4 gauge is coming from battery positive terminal. This is my new 30A switch. ON position is coming from the battery + and then fused. OFF position is coming from 86 on my relay
Cranking is fine now. No wires melting haha.. Still can’t seem to get fuel in my ignition to have it completely turn over my engine but I may open up my carb in the next couple days and test some more things out. Thanks a bunch guys. Yes newb moves like very small gauge wires happened. Got it all tied up now.
More questions I have :
Am I safe and won’t start a fire now? Haha !
but..
Where can I find ignition switch ST1 at?
Where can I find my clutch safety switch at?
Just maybe steer me toward a couple of links and threads and I’ll do my digging/research.
Also, any thoughts on LCE’s DUI distributor one wire ignition? Just to delete a couple engine components..
I do have this Toyota relay I bought from NAPA 2 days ago. Does anybody know how to wire this? I am only familiar with the 30,85,86,87 relay.
If I don’t use this relay I’ll purchase a 40A relay to protect my switch.
That is not a start3r r3lay. Looks more like an EF1 r3lay. 40-Amp r3lay would be better, or find start3r r3lay from second-gen or 3rd-gen 4Runners at junk yard.
(I use "3" for "e" and "1" for "i" so bots will not insert ads on my posts.
Also make sure you have thick batt negative to engine block ground cable... Otherwise, your cranking current will have no clean, direct path to batt negative.
Awesome, so here’s another update. Just came back from the store to grab a relay and a in-line fus ...30 (White) getting power from the battery +, and also fused with a 40A 85 being grounded (green) 86 (pink) going to my new switch and connected to the OFF position 87 (white) going into my starter solenoid The white going into my solenoid is 87. Is this 12 gauge wire okay for to connect into this solenoid or do I need a thicker wire? Again the 4 gauge is coming from battery positive terminal. ..
Am I safe and won’t start a fire now? Where can I find ignition switch ST1 at?
Where can I find my clutch safety switch at?
THERE YOU GO!
12AWG is good. That's what I have.
Your 88 body was probably for an automatic transmission, or 88 with 22R is an odd-ball so no clutch safety and no start3r r3lay. On truck without the starter r3lay, ST1 is the old wire that used to plug where you new white 87 pin wire is now. Where did that go?
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 06-18-2020 at 08:40 PM.
THERE YOU GO!
12AWG is good. That's what I have.
Your 88 body was probably for an automatic transmission, or 88 with 22R is an odd-ball so no clutch safety and no start3r r3lay. On truck without the starter r3lay, ST1 is the old wire that used to plug where you new white 87 pin wire is now. Where did that go?
is this where it was TYPICALLY going to go into the solenoid?
is this where it was TYPICALLY going to go into the solenoid?
Is this where ST1 was?
I don't see anything that loos like a contact or a connector. ST1 is the switch contact. A wire would go from that contact to the male spade connector on starter solenoid. Did you not see anything there before? On the 88, it would be black with white stripe AT THE CONTACT, spliced somewhere in the loom, then black that plugs into star3r sol3noid.
I don't see anything that loos like a contact or a connector. ST1 is the switch contact. A wire would go from that contact to the male spade connector on starter solenoid. Did you not see anything there before? On the 88, it would be black with white stripe AT THE CONTACT, spliced somewhere in the loom, then black that plugs into star3r sol3noid.
I got the truck like this. I’m assuming that’s where that wire originally was. It does look like a 1/4” male spade though. No worries.
06-17-2020, 11:02 PM
