jdanglesyota

ok. so this guy i know has a 84 pick up 22R. I don't know any more details about it. but he wants me to do the head on it and hes looking to get a head with over sized valves and a dif cam. I'm not sure how crazy big the valves r or the cam. but my question is is there anything that else that needs to be done like change the timing or anything along thos lines. any help would be great. if i talk to him i will get the specs from him

TORTIS

iTrader: (1)

specs on the cam would really help.

olharleyman

not sure on the carb set up but on my injected 22re with a L.C. Engineering Pro Street head and a engnbldr 268 cam there was no real need to mess with timing though I did advance mine to 8 degrees btdc and it runs better for all the extra air flow supra afm as well added to the motor but in general I don't see any reason for you to have to worry about that

camo31_10.50

well maybe not ignition timing..but you could degree the cam to get some better performance out of it!

if he's wanting the cam for good power at higher rpms (like..about 2800rpms and above) then talk to Ted at engnbldr about his 270/430 cam, he doesn't list it on his sight, but he has it LOL

the 268* cam and the 261* are both nice, i've got the 261* myself and it's great...until about 4500rpms, then it like falls on it's face LOL

the oversize valves will help too

so lets recap here:
Cam of his choosing(and degree it with LCE degree wheel package thingy lol)
Oversize valves
port and polish
weber Carb (again, his choice, 32/36, 34/34, 38)
nice header and an open exhaust (flow through design muffler with 2.25" pipe)
and if you're that far, bore the block about .040 or so LOL

and that's about all i know in terms of performance upgrades for the 22r

olharleyman

i've got the 261* myself and it's great...until about 4500rpms, then it like falls on it's face LOL

the 268 will fix that , mine seems to run out about 5200 and in 5th I am running 90+miles per hour with 35's lol

polycrack

hi all, I got a 22re .40 over pistons 1 mm bigger valves 270/430 cam. I want a bit more power. ppl say move the timing chain one tooth, but witch way? hold the crank at TDC and mave the cam clockwise one tooth? would any ign. time change help? also I have a wideband afr gauge accurate to .1 afr thinking of pluging that in and messing with the mass air adj under the sticker. any one been there done that? thanks for the help

polycrack

Timing advance/retard on 270/430
hi all, I got a 22re .40 over pistons 1 mm bigger valves 270/430 cam. I want a bit more power. ppl say move the timing chain one tooth, but witch way? hold the crank at TDC and mave the cam clockwise one tooth? would any ign. time change help? also I have a wideband afr gauge accurate to .1 afr thinking of pluging that in and messing with the mass air adj under the sticker. any one been there done that? thanks for the help

xxxtreme22r

lol who told you to move the cam 1 tooth? Smack them please. 1 tooth on the cam = 10 degees. That's huge. And depending on the lift on the cam, you ca run into piston to valve clearance issues.

This is the only correct way to degree a cam in and if you cannot understand the procedure, then you shouldn't be messing with degreeing a cam.

FYI just having my block shaved by .010 has affected my cam timing enough to where I notice quite a bit of lower end power. Not sure how many degres that moves the cam as I have asked several times and noone really knows. But I don't think it can't be more than 2-3 degrees.



Camshaft Degreeing Procedures
NOTE: The zero marking on an adjustable camshaft gear is not always in direct correlation with the camshaft centerline. Because of the numerous variations in engine mechanics, including cylinder head decking, cylinder block decking, camshaft size, etc., which play an important role in overall camshaft timing, LCE recommends the following in the initial set up of your new adjustable camshaft gear.

Basic Camshaft Gear Installation:
With the #1 cylinder at TDC (top dead center), remove the factory timing gear from the camshaft. Be careful to not let the timing chain fall below the timing chain cover.

Set the factory camshaft gear on a flat surface and place the adjustable camshaft gear on top (make sure that the nuts on the adjustable cam gear are loose first). Line up the camshaft dowel holes on both gears. With the holes in the center hubs lined up, rotate the outer gear of the adjustable camshaft gear to line up with the factory teeth (make sure that the dowell holes on both center hubs still match). Tighten the nuts on the adjustable cam gear and make a mark (using a chisel) on the outer gear at the ?zero? mark of the adjustable camshaft gear.

Install the adjustable camshaft gear onto the camshaft with the timing chain and secure. You will now be able to advance or retard the camshaft timing accordingly.

Advanced Camshaft Gear Installation:
We recommend the Intake Lobe Center Method to degree the camshaft. This will achieve the most accurate settings available, resulting in the best performance from your engine package.

Setup Procedures. Install the degree wheel on the crankshaft. Using a stiff wire, form a pointer. Position it off of one of the 6mm water pump bolts.

To set true piston TDC (top dead center) on the degree wheel with the cylinder head installed. Rotate the crank shaft to position the #1 piston at BDC (bottom dead center). Install a piston stop, into the #1 cylinder spark plug hole and tighten. Loosen the cam bolt so the cam gear can be pulled off the cam, but still supported on the bolt. Carefully rotate the crankshaft clockwise until the piston touches the piston stop. Read the degree wheel. Example 15° ATDC (after top dead center). Rotate the crank counter clockwise until it reaches the piston stop. Example 25° BTDC (before top dead center).

Move the wire pointer to split the difference of these two readings (20°). The wheel should read the same at both sides of TDC at the cylinder stop. If not, adjust the pointer until it is accurate. Remove the piston stop and tighten the cam gear bolt to 60 ft lbs.

Using a 1\" travel dial indicator with a magnetic base and fixture plate position the indicator on the #1 intake valve retainer at the same plane as the valve.

Cam Card Specifications. Review the cam card provided with your camshaft. Find the intake center line the cam was ground on. If not provided you can compute the center line by adding the intake opening degrees at .050 valve lift to the intake close degrees at .050 valve lift plus 180° crank rotation. Divide this number by 2 and subtract the smaller number. This is your intake center line of the cam you are about to degree. Check every cam, they will differ from cam to cam. Example:

Opens 13° + Closes 37° + 180° = 230°
230° ÷ 2 = 115°
115° - 13° = 102° Lobe Center

Note: Always rotate the crankshaft in the running rotation (clockwise looking at the front of the engine). Never reverse crankshaft rotation to achieve a reading when degreeing the camshaft.

Step 1: Find Valve Open @ .050 Lift. With your indicator on the retainer and the rocker set at zero lash on the base circle, zero the dial indicator. Rotate the crank until the indicator reads .050 valve lift off base circle. Read the degree wheel and record. Example would be 11° on the degree wheel BTDC.

Step 2: Find Valve Closes @ .050 Lift. Rotate the crankshaft until the dial indicator reads .050 off the base circle (valve closing). Read the degree wheel and record. Example 39° on the degree wheel ABDC.

Step 3: Calculate Lobe Center. To figure the exact lobe center add intake open number and intake close number plus 180°. Divide this total by 2 and subtract the smaller number (usually the intake open number). Example:

Intake open 11° + Intake close 39° + 180° = 230°
230° Duration ÷ 2 = 115°
115° - 11° = 104° Lobe Center

In our example your cam is currently set to a 104° Lobe Center. Compare your actual findings with the information from your cam card and adjust the cam accordingly.

Step 4: Adjusting The Camshaft. Loosen the three 10mm lock nuts on the cam gear. Advance or retard the gear to achieve the proper intake center line for your specific cam. Torque the nuts to 8 ft. lb. And recheck your numbers to assure a proper setting.

Once indexed correctly, using a sharp small chisel, align with the zero mark on the gear hub and make a reference mark on the outer gear for future reference. You have now completed the degreeing process.

Calculating Duration: To calculate duration at .050 valve lift . Add the degrees when the valve opens @ .050 to the degrees the valve closes @ .050 plus 180°. Example:

Opens 11° + Closes 39° + 180° = 230° Duration @ .050 Valve Lift



Performance Tips

To change the performance of your engine, you can advance the cam to achieve a lower RPM torque curve (bottom end power) or retard the cam to achieve a higher RPM torque curve (top end power). Make small adjustments and record your results. This way you can always refer back to your previous settings.

Ignition timing and cam timing are not the same. Since the distributor is turned by the camshaft, always recheck your ignition timing after adjusting the cam timing.

polycrack

Thanks for all the info. Sounds like you know what your talking about. I've never thought about how shavein the block or head changes the distance between the crank and cam gears yet the chain doesn't change size, therfore timing is changed. Makes you think then, when you put in a new chain the timing will change as the chain breaks in. (Very little) kewl looks like I need myself a adj cam gear. I didn't get a card w my cam but I guess I can do the math. I do have a dial gauge, and never used a piston stop in my life. but TDC isn't hard to find with a screwdriver in the sprkplug hole. Thanks again, and yeah I'll hit up side the head for ya lol (guy at work )

xxxtreme22r

if you ask the manufacture of the cam, they should tell you the specs on it. Which cam is it?

here is a good video of the degree process:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVbwQ-O0Jlg

engnbldr

>>>*Don't do that! One tooth WAY is too far, about the most you can move the camshaft (valve timing) is about 4° before unhappy things begin to happen.

You can retard the cam timing by using an adjustable upper cam gear but it really doesn't increase power, what it does do is move peak power to a different location.

Advancing the cam moves the peak power lower in the RPM scale, retarding it moves the peak higher. The change really isn't a lot but it is noticeable.

One thing to really consider if she falls off early is to look at the exhaust system. Any restrictions there really affect the top end on the little 22RE engines and ths factory system was deliberately left smaller than it should be due to the factory's goal of nice and quiet. A nice 2 1/4" system sometimes wakes things right up....*EB

xxxtreme22r

this was just answered in another thread in which you asked the same question, I figured I'd put it here too. It backs up what I had stated earlier. BTW. engnbldr is a highly respected 22r engine builder and parts supplier.