IFS & 35's!
10-25-2008, 05:31 PM
#61
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And what about the distance between the ground and the bottom of the transfercase, or the "bracket" of the "bracket lift"? What clearance do you gain there with a bracket lift?
Clearance between tranny and t case will be increased. If you cant see that than I cant help you.
Here's the bottom line: The only way to increase overall (Under axle) clearance is with taller tires. Period. Well, maybe portal axles, but even then, there's not a whole of gain. So...you want clearance? Get taller tires.
Actually portals can give you the clearance of a 44 with 37 inch tires so I would say thats pretty good. I may be off some on that but its close.
The benefit to a body lift? Taller tires without messing with your suspension geometry too much. There are plenty of people who wheel hard with bodylifts, so don't bring the "they're dangerous" junk.
There's tons of discussions about this...
IFS vs. SAS... Will it ever stop?
Clearance between tranny and t case will be increased. If you cant see that than I cant help you.
Here's the bottom line: The only way to increase overall (Under axle) clearance is with taller tires. Period. Well, maybe portal axles, but even then, there's not a whole of gain. So...you want clearance? Get taller tires.
Actually portals can give you the clearance of a 44 with 37 inch tires so I would say thats pretty good. I may be off some on that but its close.
The benefit to a body lift? Taller tires without messing with your suspension geometry too much. There are plenty of people who wheel hard with bodylifts, so don't bring the "they're dangerous" junk.
There's tons of discussions about this...
IFS vs. SAS... Will it ever stop?
Thats true, its the only pro for bracket lifts.
The cons:
What about improved suspension performance
Increase leverage on stock IFS mounts (they are weaker now!)
you can't go back to stock easily
quite expensive for the best kit (procomp stage ll is up there)
require frequent alignments if you wheel it
I thought about that and thats why i got the procomp stage to with the ifs drop bracket brace kickers.
With the body lift you can run the same side tires (thus same underaxle clearance), then with the money you saved, you could:
Drivetrain lift (flat belly!!!)
sliders/armor
locker/re-gear fund..
If you took a look at some hardcore wheeling trucks, you will be surprized how many of them have a body lift
The cons:
What about improved suspension performance
Increase leverage on stock IFS mounts (they are weaker now!)
you can't go back to stock easily
quite expensive for the best kit (procomp stage ll is up there)
require frequent alignments if you wheel it
I thought about that and thats why i got the procomp stage to with the ifs drop bracket brace kickers.
With the body lift you can run the same side tires (thus same underaxle clearance), then with the money you saved, you could:
Drivetrain lift (flat belly!!!)
sliders/armor
locker/re-gear fund..
If you took a look at some hardcore wheeling trucks, you will be surprized how many of them have a body lift
I agree
Last edited by saitotiktmdog; 10-25-2008 at 05:36 PM.
10-25-2008, 05:42 PM
#62
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On a helpful note I just put on 35s and they do rub. Will be looking into ball joint spacers and shackles. That will give me more bump stop clearance and more articulation in the front. Shackels will do similar.
On a sarcastic not:
Maybe I sould have put on a six inch body lift and than 35s and I would still have the same supension performance as stock.
On a sarcastic not:
Maybe I sould have put on a six inch body lift and than 35s and I would still have the same supension performance as stock.
10-25-2008, 09:03 PM
#63
Registered User
On a helpful note I just put on 35s and they do rub. Will be looking into ball joint spacers and shackles. That will give me more bump stop clearance and more articulation in the front. Shackels will do similar.
On a sarcastic not:
Maybe I sould have put on a six inch body lift and than 35s and I would still have the same supension performance as stock.
On a sarcastic not:
Maybe I sould have put on a six inch body lift and than 35s and I would still have the same supension performance as stock.
10-27-2008, 04:09 AM
#64
Registered User
I owned and wheeled a bracket lift for many years.
They do not improve suspension performance, they decrease it be raising the COG such that instead of loading the tire you want to compress, you load the one you don't enough that you typically get no flex in tippy situations. They make the truck even more tippy as a result.
They are fragile. Not only do they bend easy but worse they out right brake easy. I did lots of both.
They are expensive.
You can modify all but the Procomp stage two to have lots of travel but you will only use it in higher speed situations.
I would never buy another one. The truck flexes better and is so much more stable with 1" of lift and 33's than it ever was with 4" (and later 5.5" when I added BJ spacers to the bracket lift) of suspension lift.
Unless you are wheeling a bracket lift you just can't know what it really means to have one on your truck dealing with all the issues. Body lift is a much better way to clear tires. For suspension, if you want high end, go SAS or long travel. Otherwise, spacers are cheap.
Frank
They do not improve suspension performance, they decrease it be raising the COG such that instead of loading the tire you want to compress, you load the one you don't enough that you typically get no flex in tippy situations. They make the truck even more tippy as a result.
They are fragile. Not only do they bend easy but worse they out right brake easy. I did lots of both.
They are expensive.
You can modify all but the Procomp stage two to have lots of travel but you will only use it in higher speed situations.
I would never buy another one. The truck flexes better and is so much more stable with 1" of lift and 33's than it ever was with 4" (and later 5.5" when I added BJ spacers to the bracket lift) of suspension lift.
Unless you are wheeling a bracket lift you just can't know what it really means to have one on your truck dealing with all the issues. Body lift is a much better way to clear tires. For suspension, if you want high end, go SAS or long travel. Otherwise, spacers are cheap.
Frank
10-27-2008, 04:22 AM
#65
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I owned and wheeled a bracket lift for many years.
They do not improve suspension performance, they decrease it be raising the COG such that instead of loading the tire you want to compress, you load the one you don't enough that you typically get no flex in tippy situations. They make the truck even more tippy as a result.
That is the characteristic of ifs in generall bracket lift or not if comparing it to a solid axle
They are fragile. Not only do they bend easy but worse they out right brake easy. I did lots of both.
What type of wheeling were you doing. Rocks, mud etc. Also what type of lift was it that you had/have. Some are built better than others.
They are expensive.That part I cant argue with, they are pricy
You can modify all but the Procomp stage two to have lots of travel but you will only use it in higher speed situations.
I would never buy another one. The truck flexes better and is so much more stable with 1" of lift and 33's than it ever was with 4" (and later 5.5" when I added BJ spacers to the bracket lift) of suspension lift.
Unless you are wheeling a bracket lift you just can't know what it really means to have one on your truck dealing with all the issues. Body lift is a much better way to clear tires. For suspension, if you want high end, go SAS or long travel. Otherwise, spacers are cheap.
Frank
They do not improve suspension performance, they decrease it be raising the COG such that instead of loading the tire you want to compress, you load the one you don't enough that you typically get no flex in tippy situations. They make the truck even more tippy as a result.
That is the characteristic of ifs in generall bracket lift or not if comparing it to a solid axle
They are fragile. Not only do they bend easy but worse they out right brake easy. I did lots of both.
What type of wheeling were you doing. Rocks, mud etc. Also what type of lift was it that you had/have. Some are built better than others.
They are expensive.That part I cant argue with, they are pricy
You can modify all but the Procomp stage two to have lots of travel but you will only use it in higher speed situations.
I would never buy another one. The truck flexes better and is so much more stable with 1" of lift and 33's than it ever was with 4" (and later 5.5" when I added BJ spacers to the bracket lift) of suspension lift.
Unless you are wheeling a bracket lift you just can't know what it really means to have one on your truck dealing with all the issues. Body lift is a much better way to clear tires. For suspension, if you want high end, go SAS or long travel. Otherwise, spacers are cheap.
Frank
Toyota1, you would not need 6 inches of lift to run 35s on flat ground, but the tires will rub under flex. I have 4 inches of lift and the tires rub when the suspension flexes especially when turning at the same time. My experience anyways.
Last edited by saitotiktmdog; 10-27-2008 at 04:27 AM.
10-27-2008, 06:14 AM
#66
Registered User
I wheeled moderate trails, moderate rocks, sand, typical socal stuff. It was not terribly hard wheeling, mildly built rigs were wheeling with me, the bracket lifts just don't hold up. One rock is a little too high, or the wheel slips and bam, you just broke a lift bracket or taco'd the crossmember. The metal maybe thicker, but the design is not as robust as stock. There's much more to strength than just thickness of material.
All IFS lifts to not negatively affect suspension operation the way bracket lifts on our trucks do, in fact they are alone in this category. Here's why.
LT kits, they increase the window of travel and wheel track. This decreases the COG which means there is less weight transfer on the lower wheel which you want to extend. The weight is then on the upper wheel compressing it as it should. Also, they are typically more compliant and so flex more because of it.
BJ spacers, these level out the UCA which increases torque back to production levels making the suspension more compliant. They also open up the window of travel which helps flex.
If one is looking for capability, they really are better off throwing money at gears, lockers, and armor. Fit their tires with as little lift as possible. This will create a very capable, durable, and stable vehicle which will usually retain better MPG and on road manners.
All this said, one could weld reinforcements (I completely redesign the rear LCA lift/crossmember out of 2.5" steel), create strong skid plates, relocate the bumpstop brackets (I shortened mine for a huge increase in compression travel), and have a strong kit that will absorb a hell of a hit. It won't flex well on the trail due to COG issues and the fact that the stock t bars are too stiff. It's just at that point, it's time to assess if this lift is really what you want.
Frank
All IFS lifts to not negatively affect suspension operation the way bracket lifts on our trucks do, in fact they are alone in this category. Here's why.
LT kits, they increase the window of travel and wheel track. This decreases the COG which means there is less weight transfer on the lower wheel which you want to extend. The weight is then on the upper wheel compressing it as it should. Also, they are typically more compliant and so flex more because of it.
BJ spacers, these level out the UCA which increases torque back to production levels making the suspension more compliant. They also open up the window of travel which helps flex.
If one is looking for capability, they really are better off throwing money at gears, lockers, and armor. Fit their tires with as little lift as possible. This will create a very capable, durable, and stable vehicle which will usually retain better MPG and on road manners.
All this said, one could weld reinforcements (I completely redesign the rear LCA lift/crossmember out of 2.5" steel), create strong skid plates, relocate the bumpstop brackets (I shortened mine for a huge increase in compression travel), and have a strong kit that will absorb a hell of a hit. It won't flex well on the trail due to COG issues and the fact that the stock t bars are too stiff. It's just at that point, it's time to assess if this lift is really what you want.
Frank
10-27-2008, 07:08 AM
#67
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I wheeled moderate trails, moderate rocks, sand, typical socal stuff. It was not terribly hard wheeling, mildly built rigs were wheeling with me, the bracket lifts just don't hold up. One rock is a little too high, or the wheel slips and bam, you just broke a lift bracket or taco'd the crossmember. The metal maybe thicker, but the design is not as robust as stock. There's much more to strength than just thickness of material.
All IFS lifts to not negatively affect suspension operation the way bracket lifts on our trucks do, in fact they are alone in this category. Here's why.
LT kits, they increase the window of travel and wheel track. This decreases the COG which means there is less weight transfer on the lower wheel which you want to extend. Actually it does not decrease the center of gravity at all. what it does do is widen the vehicle track to make it less likely that the COG will exceed the base of support and therefor topple. Or in this case increase the trac enough to offset the raised COG. It still raises the COG. Highschool physics The weight is then on the upper wheel compressing it as it should. Also, they are typically more compliant and so flex more because of it.
BJ spacers, these level out the UCA which increases torque back to production levels making the suspension more compliant. They also open up the window of travel which helps flex.
If one is looking for capability, they really are better off throwing money at gears, lockers, and armor. Fit their tires with as little lift as possible. This will create a very capable, durable, and stable vehicle which will usually retain better MPG and on road manners.
All this said, one could weld reinforcements (I completely redesign the rear LCA lift/crossmember out of 2.5" steel), create strong skid plates, relocate the bumpstop brackets (I shortened mine for a huge increase in compression travel), and have a strong kit that will absorb a hell of a hit. It won't flex well on the trail due to COG issues and the fact that the stock t bars are too stiff. It's just at that point, it's time to assess if this lift is really what you want.
Frank
All IFS lifts to not negatively affect suspension operation the way bracket lifts on our trucks do, in fact they are alone in this category. Here's why.
LT kits, they increase the window of travel and wheel track. This decreases the COG which means there is less weight transfer on the lower wheel which you want to extend. Actually it does not decrease the center of gravity at all. what it does do is widen the vehicle track to make it less likely that the COG will exceed the base of support and therefor topple. Or in this case increase the trac enough to offset the raised COG. It still raises the COG. Highschool physics The weight is then on the upper wheel compressing it as it should. Also, they are typically more compliant and so flex more because of it.
BJ spacers, these level out the UCA which increases torque back to production levels making the suspension more compliant. They also open up the window of travel which helps flex.
If one is looking for capability, they really are better off throwing money at gears, lockers, and armor. Fit their tires with as little lift as possible. This will create a very capable, durable, and stable vehicle which will usually retain better MPG and on road manners.
All this said, one could weld reinforcements (I completely redesign the rear LCA lift/crossmember out of 2.5" steel), create strong skid plates, relocate the bumpstop brackets (I shortened mine for a huge increase in compression travel), and have a strong kit that will absorb a hell of a hit. It won't flex well on the trail due to COG issues and the fact that the stock t bars are too stiff. It's just at that point, it's time to assess if this lift is really what you want.
Frank
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