Do I need head gasket repair? What's wrong?
03-25-2013, 05:17 PM
#21
Radiator/Coolant burping:
http://www.google.com/search?q=radiator+flush+kit
Really I'd expect it to of been burped well at the radiator shop. But you had to dump in a half gallon or so, which is a big portion of the full level (10.something quarts=2+1/2gallons).
I assume it wasn't gurgling when it went to the shop? If it was, was it doing it before the first work was performed?
Replacment radiator cap: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...dentifier=4433, CST 7513 is a 13PSI cap.
Water pump check: Yeah probably best you don't do that one
But incase you want to. Yep gonna squirt like moby dick. You might be able to differentiate between the pump(constant flow, dependant on cranking speed) vs head gasket leak(Jet like squirt). In the coolant flow diagram linked above(where I was talking about the high spot), the line I mentioned is the top one that goes into and out of the throttlebody(at the end of the air intake tube) and reenters the engine at the rear next to the heater(top right corner of diagram)
Newstuff:
Swing by the local parts store and get a cylinder compression test kit from the loan a tool program. They'll ask for a fully refundable deposit, eg just don't break it and it's free. This will help to rule out head gasket issues.
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...66compress.pdf
Verify the thermostat and water pump are working. With the radiator cap off warm up the engine and there should be a noticable flow left to right in the radiator.
If the compression is good, and if the pump is working. I'm gonna blame the fan clutch again. You can pick one of those up at the local parts store and return it if it doesn't solve the issue, Just don't gunk it up or damage it, it'll be about 50-60$. If it does solve it take back still and get a good aisin one that will last another 130k-miles.
Any word from toyota yet, or the dealer? With only 130k you're probably still under the miles on a HG replacement warranty
http://www.google.com/search?q=radiator+flush+kit
Really I'd expect it to of been burped well at the radiator shop. But you had to dump in a half gallon or so, which is a big portion of the full level (10.something quarts=2+1/2gallons).
I assume it wasn't gurgling when it went to the shop? If it was, was it doing it before the first work was performed?
Replacment radiator cap: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...dentifier=4433, CST 7513 is a 13PSI cap.
Water pump check: Yeah probably best you don't do that one
But incase you want to. Yep gonna squirt like moby dick. You might be able to differentiate between the pump(constant flow, dependant on cranking speed) vs head gasket leak(Jet like squirt). In the coolant flow diagram linked above(where I was talking about the high spot), the line I mentioned is the top one that goes into and out of the throttlebody(at the end of the air intake tube) and reenters the engine at the rear next to the heater(top right corner of diagram)Newstuff:
Swing by the local parts store and get a cylinder compression test kit from the loan a tool program. They'll ask for a fully refundable deposit, eg just don't break it and it's free. This will help to rule out head gasket issues.
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...66compress.pdf
Verify the thermostat and water pump are working. With the radiator cap off warm up the engine and there should be a noticable flow left to right in the radiator.
If the compression is good, and if the pump is working. I'm gonna blame the fan clutch again. You can pick one of those up at the local parts store and return it if it doesn't solve the issue, Just don't gunk it up or damage it, it'll be about 50-60$. If it does solve it take back still
and get a good aisin one that will last another 130k-miles.Any word from toyota yet, or the dealer? With only 130k you're probably still under the miles on a HG replacement warranty
03-25-2013, 08:58 PM
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Co_94_PU + company. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your advice. Thank you all very much. I apologize for my dysfunctional automotive skills and appreciate your patience with me. Thank you for your time.
So I see how to install the flush kit but not sure how I'd get the air out other then just running it and letting it spill out... and when spilling isn't that just adding bubbles? Is the advantage to this that it is at the highest point?
The "Lisle Spill free Funnel" is looking pretty good to me. Around 3:20 in this video in action.
Look at all those bubbles, and clean. Not cheep for a funnel at 20-40bux, but I'm sure I'll get some use out of it, at least a few times in the next 30-40 years I hope, prior to teleportation. I think I'll order that and use a jack or sufficient incline.
It was done at a buddies house who's a general mechanic at a dealer who has good past performance for a friend of mine and me thus far. I think he is solid, he mentioned how much spitting it was doing though so seemed to be more then he expected.
What do you mean by gurgling? The running hot, boiling over in the reserve, and noise in the dash was prior to the 2nd thermostat change and radiator change. It had some temp issues before the 1st thermostat change but it seemed to get worse after that; hence the second thermostat change and use of the toyota part.
So I'm good right? You said the yota wanted 13psi.
The rest is on my todo list and see if I can get my mind around them.
- Although I'm pretty intimidated by a lot of this stuff The water pump check didn't seem out of the realm of possibilities. A little research, a bucket, and an adventure.
-The fan clutch may be out of my skill level, have to research but if we eliminate these other things and it needs to be done, I'll pay the mechanic friend. I pay him 40 an hour to keep him motivated while still doing better then a shop.
-I need to check but the mechanic may have done a compression check, he rang off a few things he tested.
-I've watched radiator flow before on other vehicles and although it's flowing some in the 4 runner it doesn't seem like as much as I remember. Also it is spitting so much it's really hard to tell. I could look for this again, clearly my visual memory is questionable at best.
-I'll try to hit a dealer after work tomorrow, will you try that toyota link and see if your history comes up por favor?
The group I work with is hosting a conference over the next three days so it'll be slow or no progress for a bit. May take Friday off though for some of this more time consuming stuff.
Radiator/Coolant burping:
http://www.google.com/search?q=radiator+flush+kit
http://www.google.com/search?q=radiator+flush+kit
The "Lisle Spill free Funnel" is looking pretty good to me. Around 3:20 in this video in action.
Replacment radiator cap: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...dentifier=4433, CST 7513 is a 13PSI cap.
Water pump check: Yeah probably best you don't do that one But incase you want to. Yep gonna squirt like moby dick. You might be able to differentiate between the pump(constant flow, dependant on cranking speed) vs head gasket leak(Jet like squirt). In the coolant flow diagram linked above(where I was talking about the high spot), the line I mentioned is the top one that goes into and out of the throttlebody(at the end of the air intake tube) and reenters the engine at the rear next to the heater(top right corner of diagram)
Newstuff:
Swing by the local parts store and get a cylinder compression test kit from the loan a tool program. They'll ask for a fully refundable deposit, eg just don't break it and it's free. This will help to rule out head gasket issues.
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...66compress.pdf
Verify the thermostat and water pump are working. With the radiator cap off warm up the engine and there should be a noticable flow left to right in the radiator.
If the compression is good, and if the pump is working. I'm gonna blame the fan clutch again. You can pick one of those up at the local parts store and return it if it doesn't solve the issue, Just don't gunk it up or damage it, it'll be about 50-60$. If it does solve it take back still and get a good aisin one that will last another 130k-miles.
Any word from toyota yet, or the dealer? With only 130k you're probably still under the miles on a HG replacement warranty
But incase you want to. Yep gonna squirt like moby dick. You might be able to differentiate between the pump(constant flow, dependant on cranking speed) vs head gasket leak(Jet like squirt). In the coolant flow diagram linked above(where I was talking about the high spot), the line I mentioned is the top one that goes into and out of the throttlebody(at the end of the air intake tube) and reenters the engine at the rear next to the heater(top right corner of diagram)Newstuff:
Swing by the local parts store and get a cylinder compression test kit from the loan a tool program. They'll ask for a fully refundable deposit, eg just don't break it and it's free. This will help to rule out head gasket issues.
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...66compress.pdf
Verify the thermostat and water pump are working. With the radiator cap off warm up the engine and there should be a noticable flow left to right in the radiator.
If the compression is good, and if the pump is working. I'm gonna blame the fan clutch again. You can pick one of those up at the local parts store and return it if it doesn't solve the issue, Just don't gunk it up or damage it, it'll be about 50-60$. If it does solve it take back still
and get a good aisin one that will last another 130k-miles.Any word from toyota yet, or the dealer? With only 130k you're probably still under the miles on a HG replacement warranty
- Although I'm pretty intimidated by a lot of this stuff The water pump check didn't seem out of the realm of possibilities. A little research, a bucket, and an adventure.
-The fan clutch may be out of my skill level, have to research but if we eliminate these other things and it needs to be done, I'll pay the mechanic friend. I pay him 40 an hour to keep him motivated while still doing better then a shop.
-I need to check but the mechanic may have done a compression check, he rang off a few things he tested.
-I've watched radiator flow before on other vehicles and although it's flowing some in the 4 runner it doesn't seem like as much as I remember. Also it is spitting so much it's really hard to tell. I could look for this again, clearly my visual memory is questionable at best.
-I'll try to hit a dealer after work tomorrow, will you try that toyota link and see if your history comes up por favor?
The group I work with is hosting a conference over the next three days so it'll be slow or no progress for a bit. May take Friday off though for some of this more time consuming stuff.
03-25-2013, 10:07 PM
#23
Yes the cap "should" be ok, that is it has the right PSI rating.
Meet EricTheCarGuy, he seems a pretty straight guy. Has a ton of auto videos.
Here he's using the same type of funnel and goes abit more into the details of burping.
(Note you don't have that bleeder valve he's using, but a radiator flushing T would do the same thing.)
You can get that funnel at the local parts stores. Just check the website to find one in stock. It'll be under 30$ and no waiting for shipping.
Now lemme try and pick out the direct questions if I miss any just mention it again. I'm uh old and forgetful maybe.
1: "Flush kit".. Yes the idea of the T is actually the outlet/valve to let out the air from the highest point.
2: "Gurgleing" This is the noise you're hearing inside. Mentioned above that it might be a blockage in the heater core from a PO(Previous owner) using a stop-leak product.
(If you didn't have the noise before it is almost certainly a bubble/trapped air)
3:"Cap" Yep should be ok.
4: "Toyota history" Pretty sure it only lists prior service if you're the original owner. It doesn't show any records for my vin, I'm also pretty sure mine hasn't ever been back on the lot so that doesn't suprise me either way.
Air in the system will expand and push out coolant, but it's not really a "spitting coolant" more of a gentle steady flow till it coughs out the bubble and spits a bit then.
Changing the fan clutch is a very DIY'able change. Remove the 4-6bolts on the fan shroud and push it backwards to the engine. Loosen the 4 nuts on the fan pull bracket. Remove the fan. Remove a few more nuts/bolts and swap the clutch. and put everything back in the reverse order.
Compression check is also a DIY situation. All the steps are listed in the link I gave. You can't really mix up the spark plug wires on this engine, but you can label them with some tape and take picturs if it worries you.
I can't find good pictures of this radiator, there are a couple different styles. In mine it's obvious if the coolant is flowing. Aslong as it looks like it might be flowing it is.
If you can change a light bulb I expect you can turn a few wrenchs without crossthreading Females can and do this stuff all the time, get you guys some disposable gloves and call it family bonding. Harbor freight will hook you up for cheap, various sizes and thickness.
Meet EricTheCarGuy, he seems a pretty straight guy. Has a ton of auto videos.
Here he's using the same type of funnel and goes abit more into the details of burping.
(Note you don't have that bleeder valve he's using, but a radiator flushing T would do the same thing.)
You can get that funnel at the local parts stores. Just check the website to find one in stock. It'll be under 30$ and no waiting for shipping.
Now lemme try and pick out the direct questions if I miss any just mention it again. I'm uh old and forgetful maybe.
1: "Flush kit".. Yes the idea of the T is actually the outlet/valve to let out the air from the highest point.
2: "Gurgleing" This is the noise you're hearing inside. Mentioned above that it might be a blockage in the heater core from a PO(Previous owner) using a stop-leak product.
(If you didn't have the noise before it is almost certainly a bubble/trapped air)
3:"Cap" Yep should be ok.
4: "Toyota history" Pretty sure it only lists prior service if you're the original owner. It doesn't show any records for my vin, I'm also pretty sure mine hasn't ever been back on the lot so that doesn't suprise me either way.
Air in the system will expand and push out coolant, but it's not really a "spitting coolant" more of a gentle steady flow till it coughs out the bubble and spits a bit then.
Changing the fan clutch is a very DIY'able change. Remove the 4-6bolts on the fan shroud and push it backwards to the engine. Loosen the 4 nuts on the fan pull bracket. Remove the fan. Remove a few more nuts/bolts and swap the clutch. and put everything back in the reverse order.
Compression check is also a DIY situation. All the steps are listed in the link I gave. You can't really mix up the spark plug wires on this engine, but you can label them with some tape and take picturs if it worries you.
I can't find good pictures of this radiator, there are a couple different styles. In mine it's obvious if the coolant is flowing. Aslong as it looks like it might be flowing it is.
If you can change a light bulb I expect you can turn a few wrenchs without crossthreading
Females can and do this stuff all the time, get you guys some disposable gloves and call it family bonding. Harbor freight will hook you up for cheap, various sizes and thickness.
03-26-2013, 03:53 AM
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A compression test can indicate, but will NOT exonerate, a Head Gasket issue. Be sure to remove all spark plugs, engine warm, VAFM disconnected (NOT with the screws!!!), & wide open throttle. It helps greatly to have a friend when doing this~
A COOLANT PRESSURE TEST (kits at Sears, Autozone, etc.) WILL tell you if there are any leaks in your cooling system. SO NOT try to pressurize it to the maximum; 15 psi is more than enough to determine. Remove all the spark plugs before you conduct this test.
A COOLANT PRESSURE TEST (kits at Sears, Autozone, etc.) WILL tell you if there are any leaks in your cooling system. SO NOT try to pressurize it to the maximum; 15 psi is more than enough to determine. Remove all the spark plugs before you conduct this test.
03-26-2013, 04:20 PM
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So in short
What is wrong, Head Gasket, Water Pump, Heater Core, or other? Weirds me out that it passes the head gasket test. Tired of replacing stuff that is not broken and an engine rebuild or crate engine is looking about 3k. Don't really see spending 1.5k for just the gasket when a full rebuild is 3k.
One of the engine place I found recommended here says "MLS HEAD GASKETS (MULTI LAYER STEEL) AND ARP STUDS MAKE THIS ENGINE HEAD GASKET FAILURE PROOF!!!!!", but other recommendations say to use the Yota factory upgraded gasket. Which is the way to go? Heard of several folks who did the HG and had it go again 6months later, the current situation is a train wreck for us, that would be very very bad. This is a daily driver though the two of us are scraping by on one car.
Leaning toward rebuild or crate engine at this point, but would really like to know for sure what the problem is.
What is wrong, Head Gasket, Water Pump, Heater Core, or other? Weirds me out that it passes the head gasket test. Tired of replacing stuff that is not broken and an engine rebuild or crate engine is looking about 3k. Don't really see spending 1.5k for just the gasket when a full rebuild is 3k.
One of the engine place I found recommended here says "MLS HEAD GASKETS (MULTI LAYER STEEL) AND ARP STUDS MAKE THIS ENGINE HEAD GASKET FAILURE PROOF!!!!!", but other recommendations say to use the Yota factory upgraded gasket. Which is the way to go? Heard of several folks who did the HG and had it go again 6months later, the current situation is a train wreck for us, that would be very very bad. This is a daily driver though the two of us are scraping by on one car.
Leaning toward rebuild or crate engine at this point, but would really like to know for sure what the problem is.
03-27-2013, 04:04 PM
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Thanks hockey88fan, it was one of your posts that led me that way but seems like a few folks have used them. Talked to a few folks local and none give me that warm and fuzzy like I have with them thus far. If it comes down to dropping in a rebuild I'm leaning that way.
03-27-2013, 04:20 PM
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A compression test can indicate, but will NOT exonerate, a Head Gasket issue. Be sure to remove all spark plugs, engine warm, VAFM disconnected (NOT with the screws!!!), & wide open throttle. It helps greatly to have a friend when doing this~
A COOLANT PRESSURE TEST (kits at Sears, Autozone, etc.) WILL tell you if there are any leaks in your cooling system. SO NOT try to pressurize it to the maximum; 15 psi is more than enough to determine. Remove all the spark plugs before you conduct this test.
A COOLANT PRESSURE TEST (kits at Sears, Autozone, etc.) WILL tell you if there are any leaks in your cooling system. SO NOT try to pressurize it to the maximum; 15 psi is more than enough to determine. Remove all the spark plugs before you conduct this test.
I read through your whole "Second Blown HG on 3VZE: Desperate" thread, man those are some serious ups and downs with the truck. Hope the new gig is working out. Where in VA? I'm in VaBeach.
Being someone who has to farm all the work out I just really don't see getting a 3.4 swap getting done in my budget. 3.0 or get out of the truck. Hopefully with the tips we can identify exactly the issue this weekend. Really hoping not HG, but it's so common....
03-27-2013, 04:39 PM
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Yes the cap "should" be ok, that is it has the right PSI rating.
Meet EricTheCarGuy, he seems a pretty straight guy. Has a ton of auto videos.
Here he's using the same type of funnel and goes abit more into the details of burping.
(Note you don't have that bleeder valve he's using, but a radiator flushing T would do the same thing.)
You can get that funnel at the local parts stores. Just check the website to find one in stock. It'll be under 30$ and no waiting for shipping.
Now lemme try and pick out the direct questions if I miss any just mention it again. I'm uh old and forgetful maybe.
[snip]
(If you didn't have the noise before it is almost certainly a bubble/trapped air)
Air in the system will expand and push out coolant, but it's not really a "spitting coolant" more of a gentle steady flow till it coughs out the bubble and spits a bit then.
Changing the fan clutch is a very DIY'able change. Remove the 4-6bolts on the fan shroud and push it backwards to the engine. Loosen the 4 nuts on the fan pull bracket. Remove the fan. Remove a few more nuts/bolts and swap the clutch. and put everything back in the reverse order.
Compression check is also a DIY situation. All the steps are listed in the link I gave. You can't really mix up the spark plug wires on this engine, but you can label them with some tape and take picturs if it worries you.
I can't find good pictures of this radiator, there are a couple different styles. In mine it's obvious if the coolant is flowing. Aslong as it looks like it might be flowing it is.
If you can change a light bulb I expect you can turn a few wrenchs without crossthreading Females can and do this stuff all the time, get you guys some disposable gloves and call it family bonding. Harbor freight will hook you up for cheap, various sizes and thickness.
Meet EricTheCarGuy, he seems a pretty straight guy. Has a ton of auto videos.
Here he's using the same type of funnel and goes abit more into the details of burping.
(Note you don't have that bleeder valve he's using, but a radiator flushing T would do the same thing.)
You can get that funnel at the local parts stores. Just check the website to find one in stock. It'll be under 30$ and no waiting for shipping.
Now lemme try and pick out the direct questions if I miss any just mention it again. I'm uh old and forgetful maybe.
[snip]
(If you didn't have the noise before it is almost certainly a bubble/trapped air)
Air in the system will expand and push out coolant, but it's not really a "spitting coolant" more of a gentle steady flow till it coughs out the bubble and spits a bit then.
Changing the fan clutch is a very DIY'able change. Remove the 4-6bolts on the fan shroud and push it backwards to the engine. Loosen the 4 nuts on the fan pull bracket. Remove the fan. Remove a few more nuts/bolts and swap the clutch. and put everything back in the reverse order.
Compression check is also a DIY situation. All the steps are listed in the link I gave. You can't really mix up the spark plug wires on this engine, but you can label them with some tape and take picturs if it worries you.
I can't find good pictures of this radiator, there are a couple different styles. In mine it's obvious if the coolant is flowing. Aslong as it looks like it might be flowing it is.
If you can change a light bulb I expect you can turn a few wrenchs without crossthreading
Females can and do this stuff all the time, get you guys some disposable gloves and call it family bonding. Harbor freight will hook you up for cheap, various sizes and thickness.Been reading and watching some vids so I will work on my todo list and report back. Busy work week but I have half a day Friday and the Weekend to try and get this figured. Have family flying in in May, so the trucks got to be up and running by then so I need to get this diagnosis done if we are talking potential engine drop in.
Read several threads that pointed to air in the coolant system. I can't find that spill free funnel anywhere local. I'm going to use the flush T, work the bottom hose better. try elevated front end, and the other tips I've found on that. Yeah it wasn't really spitting (till it hit the fan), just pressuring up and over flowing. That bottom hose really doesn't get hot though.
03-27-2013, 04:53 PM
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I received the information from Toyota on the recall information for the truck by VIN lookup.
-V06-3VZ-FE V6 Engine Head Gasket Completed on 07/22/97
-50N-Certain 1989 - 1995 Truck 4WD, 1990 - 1995 4Runner 2WD And 4WD, and 1993 - 1998 T100 (4WD Vehicles Equipped With Power Steering) Steering Relay Rod Replacement Completed on 03/02/06
16 year old head gasket...assuming it hasn't been done again which I wouldn't know. Had the truck about two years.
-V06-3VZ-FE V6 Engine Head Gasket Completed on 07/22/97
-50N-Certain 1989 - 1995 Truck 4WD, 1990 - 1995 4Runner 2WD And 4WD, and 1993 - 1998 T100 (4WD Vehicles Equipped With Power Steering) Steering Relay Rod Replacement Completed on 03/02/06
16 year old head gasket...assuming it hasn't been done again which I wouldn't know. Had the truck about two years.
03-29-2013, 07:43 AM
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What does this mean?
It's feeling like head gasket, but maybe water pump?????? OK I don't know I'm a moron at this stuff. Your help is greatly appreciated.
I scored one of those spill free funnels that seem to bleed the air so well. Jacked up the front, topped off coolant, bled some air, squeezed some hoses (top, bottom, to/from heater core which were hot, top hose hot, heater core hoses very hot, bottom hose warm but not really hot hasn't been running that long). Wow the spill free funnel is filling up pretty quick and the bubbles are starting to splash out. little bit of smoke too coming out shut it down planning to repeat. The coolant in the funnel went down pretty quick after shut down.
Decided to try out the coolant system pressure tester I have on loan from the parts store. After figuring out none of the 18 custom fit adapters fit, I got the generic one tight and pumped it up to 15psi. It came down ever so slowly. Checked every hose I am aware of and no leak at all. Top hose bottom hose to thermostat and fuel pump and the two heater core hoses. It was fairly quiet and I can't hear a leak. Hmmm, is it head gasket squirting in the engine? I better time this leak. Pump it back up to 15 and it takes 10 min to come down to 10psi, very slow but there none the less. Is this a normal pressure decrease or is that not good?
Put that away and did the spill free funnel bleeding again. Hmmm a little more white smoke after started at exhaust and there liquid in there, put some on my finger to try and see if it is coolant, too dirty from the exhaust. (says to self, don't be a beotch and just taste it, I beotched out, should I taste it). This time it warms up pretty quick cause it was most the way there. I'm watching for flow, don't see any and then that funnel fills back up pretty quick and the smoky bubbles are causing some splashes in there. Don't get to run it too long before I have to shut it down and not make a mess. Neither of the YouTube videos with this bleeder system have it fill up like that, and I've still been unable to verify actual flow. But doesn't it have to be flowing to be getting the bubbles and the heater hoses warm and such?
Seems like head gasket, feel like I need something more definitive. Have a buddy that can help me with compression tests tomorrow evening (geeze those plugs look harder to get to then any plug I've ever pulled before, WTF). Wish I could find a block tester local, the only one I found was 50bux and they're only 25 online. Maybe I can force a price match at pep boys though. they won't match online but I got them to match what auto zone could ship to store for yesterday.
What does this tell us?
EDIT: I feel like with the pressure test I just pushed a bunch of coolant in the engine, so I got more smoke and the liquid appeared more obvious on the tail pipe.
EDIT2: I'm pretty sure the moisture at the exhaust was water and not coolant. I tasted it, not sweet, and at startup a decent amount comes out on the ground...that stuff is water. Tasted a drop of the coolant to, Very different and sweet distinct taste, just a drop.
Help
I scored one of those spill free funnels that seem to bleed the air so well. Jacked up the front, topped off coolant, bled some air, squeezed some hoses (top, bottom, to/from heater core which were hot, top hose hot, heater core hoses very hot, bottom hose warm but not really hot hasn't been running that long). Wow the spill free funnel is filling up pretty quick and the bubbles are starting to splash out. little bit of smoke too coming out shut it down planning to repeat. The coolant in the funnel went down pretty quick after shut down.
Decided to try out the coolant system pressure tester I have on loan from the parts store. After figuring out none of the 18 custom fit adapters fit, I got the generic one tight and pumped it up to 15psi. It came down ever so slowly. Checked every hose I am aware of and no leak at all. Top hose bottom hose to thermostat and fuel pump and the two heater core hoses. It was fairly quiet and I can't hear a leak. Hmmm, is it head gasket squirting in the engine? I better time this leak. Pump it back up to 15 and it takes 10 min to come down to 10psi, very slow but there none the less. Is this a normal pressure decrease or is that not good?
Put that away and did the spill free funnel bleeding again. Hmmm a little more white smoke after started at exhaust and there liquid in there, put some on my finger to try and see if it is coolant, too dirty from the exhaust. (says to self, don't be a beotch and just taste it, I beotched out, should I taste it). This time it warms up pretty quick cause it was most the way there. I'm watching for flow, don't see any and then that funnel fills back up pretty quick and the smoky bubbles are causing some splashes in there. Don't get to run it too long before I have to shut it down and not make a mess. Neither of the YouTube videos with this bleeder system have it fill up like that, and I've still been unable to verify actual flow. But doesn't it have to be flowing to be getting the bubbles and the heater hoses warm and such?
Seems like head gasket, feel like I need something more definitive. Have a buddy that can help me with compression tests tomorrow evening (geeze those plugs look harder to get to then any plug I've ever pulled before, WTF). Wish I could find a block tester local, the only one I found was 50bux and they're only 25 online. Maybe I can force a price match at pep boys though. they won't match online but I got them to match what auto zone could ship to store for yesterday.
What does this tell us?
EDIT: I feel like with the pressure test I just pushed a bunch of coolant in the engine, so I got more smoke and the liquid appeared more obvious on the tail pipe.
EDIT2: I'm pretty sure the moisture at the exhaust was water and not coolant. I tasted it, not sweet, and at startup a decent amount comes out on the ground...that stuff is water. Tasted a drop of the coolant to, Very different and sweet distinct taste, just a drop.
Help
Last edited by WestSideVB; 03-29-2013 at 09:06 AM.
03-29-2013, 10:26 AM
#31
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Top hose hot, bottom hose isn't even warm. Mechanic just told me the stat has got to be the problem despite just doing two of them...Should I drill this thing. I'm going to pull it and test it.
03-29-2013, 03:05 PM
#32
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Hope I didn't say anything wrong to you fellas, not getting a lot of feedback here.
End Of Day Status
Last push of the day was to drain the coolant, pull the thermostat, and test it. Tested out just fine, but since the last mechanic said that bottom hose should be getting hotter and it has to be a thermostat, plus I saw a description here of air getting trapped behind it and it not opening, plus the way the spill free funnel bleeding was acting...I drilled the hole. RTV seal on the housing, filled it all back up, burped the air out (will do more after it cools; burping it behaved way different then before) and took it for a spin.
For ten minutes I really thought it was fixed. Temp rock solid right down the middle. Then pushed the heat back down to cool and turn off the fan. Temp went back up to the trouble spot it was in before about a cm past normal. drove a bit more and shut it down. Before it would be boiling over into the reserve, not boil over. Drove around another 10 min 45mph+ still a bit to hot on the gauge, but no boiling.
So 2 out of 3 symptoms resolved in the short testing I've done including the scary boil over. Not sure what to think. Gunna bleed it and drive it some more.
Any inputs are greatly appreciated. Please help, I'm a computer programmer that is terrible at this stuff.
End Of Day Status
Last push of the day was to drain the coolant, pull the thermostat, and test it. Tested out just fine, but since the last mechanic said that bottom hose should be getting hotter and it has to be a thermostat, plus I saw a description here of air getting trapped behind it and it not opening, plus the way the spill free funnel bleeding was acting...I drilled the hole. RTV seal on the housing, filled it all back up, burped the air out (will do more after it cools; burping it behaved way different then before) and took it for a spin.
For ten minutes I really thought it was fixed. Temp rock solid right down the middle. Then pushed the heat back down to cool and turn off the fan. Temp went back up to the trouble spot it was in before about a cm past normal. drove a bit more and shut it down. Before it would be boiling over into the reserve, not boil over. Drove around another 10 min 45mph+ still a bit to hot on the gauge, but no boiling.
So 2 out of 3 symptoms resolved in the short testing I've done including the scary boil over. Not sure what to think. Gunna bleed it and drive it some more.
Any inputs are greatly appreciated. Please help, I'm a computer programmer that is terrible at this stuff.
03-29-2013, 03:37 PM
#33
It's friday every ones off cashing their checks or something 
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...10thermost.pdf
Did you test the thermostat? Did you inspect the instalation, wasn't backwards or upside down or anything strange?
As you can see above any pressure drop is unacceptable. I can't rule out that it's escaping from the radiator cap junction however. The fluid and smoke indicates it might be leaking into/from the combustion cylinders(Head gasket).
How much did you have to add to the cooling system after the pressure test? Would it be enough you might notice it spit out the spark plug ports. When you get it setup for the compression test(spark and fuel disabled) try pressurizing the coolant system and checking for the moisture at the plug ports while cranking the engine also the pressure should stay steady(I think, but someone might correct me).
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...10thermost.pdf
Did you test the thermostat? Did you inspect the instalation, wasn't backwards or upside down or anything strange?
2. CHECK COOLING SYSTEM FOR LEAKS
(a) Fill the radiator with engine coolant and attach a radiator cap tester.
(b) Warm up the engine.
(c) Pump it to 118 kPa (1.2 kgf/cm2, 17.1 psi), and check that the pressure does not drop. If the pressure drops, check for leaks from the hoses, radiator or water pump. If no external leaks are found, check the heater core, block and intake manifold
(a) Fill the radiator with engine coolant and attach a radiator cap tester.
(b) Warm up the engine.
(c) Pump it to 118 kPa (1.2 kgf/cm2, 17.1 psi), and check that the pressure does not drop. If the pressure drops, check for leaks from the hoses, radiator or water pump. If no external leaks are found, check the heater core, block and intake manifold
How much did you have to add to the cooling system after the pressure test? Would it be enough you might notice it spit out the spark plug ports. When you get it setup for the compression test(spark and fuel disabled) try pressurizing the coolant system and checking for the moisture at the plug ports while cranking the engine also the pressure should stay steady(I think, but someone might correct me).
03-29-2013, 09:06 PM
#35
smoky bubbles
Removing the thermostat or drilling out a hole might buy you some time, but I'd park it before it gets worse.
The general consensus is a 3.4 swap costs the same as a 3.0 remanufactured drop in. Not sure how that works out exactly but I believe em for some reason
03-30-2013, 07:05 AM
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Sorry just missed the "tested" part, was too distracted "OMG nooo don't taste that"
occasionally consumed by children and dogs due to its sweetness.
Is this true even if you have to pay someone else to do it? It's a miracle I got that thermostat out...I'm not doing an engine much less a swap. More power is nice and all but honestly we don't need it.
03-30-2013, 07:44 AM
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It's friday every ones off cashing their checks or something
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...10thermost.pdf
Did you test the thermostat? Did you inspect the instalation, wasn't backwards or upside down or anything strange?
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...10thermost.pdf
Did you test the thermostat? Did you inspect the instalation, wasn't backwards or upside down or anything strange?
Hmmm I put my hole at 12 o'clock per the recommendation I found for how to do the hole. So jiggle valve is at 6 and it is upside down. Is that kewl? Other then the jiggle valve I'm not really seeing a right and wrong "spin" direction.
Oh spring does go towards the tail pipe and butt crevice towards the front bumper right? That's the way it was in every diagram I saw.
As you can see above any pressure drop is unacceptable. I can't rule out that it's escaping from the radiator cap junction however. The fluid and smoke indicates it might be leaking into/from the combustion cylinders(Head gasket).
How much did you have to add to the cooling system after the pressure test? Would it be enough you might notice it spit out the spark plug ports. When you get it setup for the compression test(spark and fuel disabled) try pressurizing the coolant system and checking for the moisture at the plug ports while cranking the engine also the pressure should stay steady(I think, but someone might correct me).
How much did you have to add to the cooling system after the pressure test? Would it be enough you might notice it spit out the spark plug ports. When you get it setup for the compression test(spark and fuel disabled) try pressurizing the coolant system and checking for the moisture at the plug ports while cranking the engine also the pressure should stay steady(I think, but someone might correct me).
Thanks for the feedback, you've been a tremendous help. Not really sure what to do next. I'm thinking I will do the combustion check and try to find a more attractively priced block tester / combustion leak detector. Considering putting in the old radiator, flushing the crap out of it and doing eric the car guys heater core flushing technique running it for a bit then putting the new radiator back in.
03-30-2013, 08:01 AM
#38
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Any tips to getting these spark plugs out? Looks a lot harder then any other plugs I've ever pulled. I've just got the standard socket wrench setup with an extender and the plug attachments. I'm sure my buddy will bring his stuff too.
04-04-2013, 07:23 PM
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Compression test results
Dry (# - pressure)
1 - 195.0
2 - 185.5
3 - 200.5
4 - 181.5
5 - 187.0
6 - 173.5
Wet (# - pressure)
1
2 - 225.5
3
4 - 204.0
5
6 - 198.5
The oil squirter I had had a short hose and we didn't have any hoses that could extended it to wet test the odd number passenger side cylinders.
So the numbers seem high enough, but the fluctuation seems too much. 12psi difference on the driver side alone. From worst to best across all 6 is a 27 psi difference. What does this indicate? Is this good, bad, normal, not????
Also with the plugs off I re-did the coolant system pressure test and the pressure stayed much much more steady. Over 30min it dropped less than 5 psi and there was the tiniest of tiny leaks on one of the heater hoses. I feel like the original time I did this the system wasn't burped properly and there was air in the system causing the issue maybe, or perhaps it didn't have a tight seal, or perhaps I did something else wrong.
After driving it for a week with a couple 15 mile interstate runs probably 80 miles total for the week there is not a noticeable drop in coolant level. The radiator is still filled to the top, which it could be topping off from the reserve, but the reserve seems at the same level to me.
Truck also has new plugs from yota and air filter now.
Symptom is the temp gage is slightly higher then normal when driven 45+ for 5+ min. The noise in the dash is completely gone, the boiling over in the reserve is completely gone. If just driven 25-35 without accelerating hard it does not get to that slightly raised temperature and is solid at the normal temp. When the temp does go up it goes up just a bit, maybe a cm, but holds steady there. Letting it rest idling will bring it back down after several min.
Head Gasket, Water Pump, Heater Core, need coolant system flush, other?????? Am I chasing a minor ghost on a 20year old truck that isn't a big deal?
Thanks for any help you provide.
1 - 195.0
2 - 185.5
3 - 200.5
4 - 181.5
5 - 187.0
6 - 173.5
Wet (# - pressure)
1
2 - 225.5
3
4 - 204.0
5
6 - 198.5
The oil squirter I had had a short hose and we didn't have any hoses that could extended it to wet test the odd number passenger side cylinders.
So the numbers seem high enough, but the fluctuation seems too much. 12psi difference on the driver side alone. From worst to best across all 6 is a 27 psi difference. What does this indicate? Is this good, bad, normal, not????
Also with the plugs off I re-did the coolant system pressure test and the pressure stayed much much more steady. Over 30min it dropped less than 5 psi and there was the tiniest of tiny leaks on one of the heater hoses. I feel like the original time I did this the system wasn't burped properly and there was air in the system causing the issue maybe, or perhaps it didn't have a tight seal, or perhaps I did something else wrong.
After driving it for a week with a couple 15 mile interstate runs probably 80 miles total for the week there is not a noticeable drop in coolant level. The radiator is still filled to the top, which it could be topping off from the reserve, but the reserve seems at the same level to me.
Truck also has new plugs from yota and air filter now.
Symptom is the temp gage is slightly higher then normal when driven 45+ for 5+ min. The noise in the dash is completely gone, the boiling over in the reserve is completely gone. If just driven 25-35 without accelerating hard it does not get to that slightly raised temperature and is solid at the normal temp. When the temp does go up it goes up just a bit, maybe a cm, but holds steady there. Letting it rest idling will bring it back down after several min.
Head Gasket, Water Pump, Heater Core, need coolant system flush, other?????? Am I chasing a minor ghost on a 20year old truck that isn't a big deal?
Thanks for any help you provide.
