WestSideVB

Figured out how to get the codes. There are no codes. Steady constant fast blink.

maachine

was the check engine light even on?

WestSideVB

No. I remember reading some codes do not turn it on and figured it was simple enough to check it.

JBWeld setting with splints and a couple clamps on the shroud.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

The shroud makes the fan pull air thru the radiator, with out the shroud it pulls air in thru the side (eg between the back of the radiator and front of the fan). The cooling has little to nothing todo with the air flow over the engine, it's not an air cooled engine like a VW.

Jb weld probably won't bond well with the polypropylene shroud. Depending how bad you busted it up, it's just a big crack I assume, you can tie it back together with baleing wire, copper coat hanger, what ever is convienent. Honestly unless you knocked a big section loose, eg two cracks and a floppy bit in the middle, the four corner screws should hold it in place just fine. Personally mines missing a "big" 3x8" section in the top corner, and doesn't have any issues other than I can get at the fan nuts w/o taking the shroud off.

Running the AC dumps all the heat into the radiator since it is in front of the radiator. So it'll definately be more likely to overheat when the compressor is running.

The AC's condensor fan(electric fan located in front of the radiator and condensor), should be activated when the compressor clutch is. So if it's not on when the ac is that's a problem, double check it's still plugged in and the resistor block is connected and not damaged(resistor is a large rectangle at the lower left, behind the grill).

You can run the climate control set to cold with the blower on and A/C switch off and you'll get some fresh air at least. This closes the heater core water lines, so the engine doesn't get the extra cooling effect, and doesn't dump AC heat into the coolant system.

Have you inspected the fins on the AC condensor? I don't recall the recommended values off hand something like 25% is not great, 50% is bad, more than 50% and you might want to consider replacing or removing it. There is a 1 or 1/2 inch gap between the radiator and condenser, so you always have some flow thru the sides, but this isn't much compared to the full area of the radiator.

Two weeks is a reasonable time period, you've been at it a bit longer than that I think. Ask em for some pictures of the water passages when they do the teardown. We love pictures even when it is broken stuff...Ok I love pictures even when it's broken stuff

Hopefully they can get the heads checked for flatness and the pressure tests done and won't find any problems, aside from some gasket tear out. g'luck sir!

maachine

oh, they should also check the springs to make sure they are still good. that should be part of rebuilding the heads.

WestSideVB

Great tips CO. AC def not functioning properly, that fan never comes on, how do I tell i the condensor is on?

Can the AC issue, condensor, and/or AC fan possibly be the culprit of this "running a little hot" symptom? Feels like seperate issues since it is running a little hot with AC off, but with it on it's more load and heat on the cooling system and motor so it makes the running a bit hot worse.

The shroud, before I touched it, was broken before and they just drilled holes and used wire ties. I don't think this is the stock shroud. It does not come apart into 2 pieces and does not have the little bottom half circle attachment I see in diagrams.I may drill and use a wire tie as well based on your info but it's already clamped with the JBWeld so will let it set. It's just cracked apart at the skinny part on passenger side, no pieces came off.

WestSideVB

When you do the fan clutch do you take the fan off then take the fan clutch off. Or do you take the fan clutch off with the fan still attached?

WestSideVB

Thanks, at some point I need to put together a list of what I want the rebuild to include and i'll have a ton of questions about stuff like this so I can speak intelligibly with potential rebuild folks. I think you are on to the actual cause with the clogged coolant tunnels in the engine.

maachine

your basic head rebuild by most pro machine shops should include:

cleaning (hot tanking, works like a big dish washer)
inspection (for cracks and to see if the heads are warped)
dis-assembly
valve seat inspection
planing (if the heads are warped)
re seating the valves (if necessary)
testing the valve springs to make sure they still have the correct "spring" still in them
uhhhh.......valve stems are within spec and not worn out
reassembly (which includes installing the new valve stem seals, which comes with the usual head gasket repair kit)
then final inspection (vacuum or liquid test to make sure valves do seal correctly)

i may have missed a thing or 2 but i think that covers most of it

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

You can check the compressor with a test light/multi-meter, clip to ground and probe on the clutch wire. I was kind of under the impression the A/C was working recently. Should be a plug with a single wire connected to the A/C compressor, that's the wire to check. The other obvious no tools check is the A/C blows cold air not just air.

Somewhat, but if the A/C compressor wasn't working before there wouldn't be any extra heat in the condensor for it to transfer. If the compressor was working but the fan not working you'd have issues. I kind of doubt she was running it in late winter when the problems started.

However if the fins were damaged and blocked off the air flow. Lets say it's 2-1/2" wide 1-1/2" tall. 30 * 18 = 540 inch area vs (completely pluged up) 30 + 18 *2 = 96 inch area to suck air thru. Of course it's not likely completely blocked off unless she drove thru a cloud of locust or similar, but even a small bird strike makes a big mess er blockage, and even a few june bugs here and there add up pretty quick.

You put the goop on the outside? No hazard of it damageing the fan and it'll be fine either way.

Shroud loose and pushed back to the engine, break loose 4 nuts on the pully stand off, loosen the belts, off with the nuts, out comes the fan and shroud.

Replace the clutch.

In with the shroud and fan, tighten the nuts, lightly tension the belts to hold the pully, finish tightening the nuts push on the belt for extra tension (This lets you spin the fan pully to get at the next nut), re do the shroud screws/bolts and final tension the belts.

You really want to minimize machine shop time, unless your building something hi-performance. It adds up really fast and isn't cheap. I'm all about supporting local business especially being from/in a small town, but it's hard to justify the labor hours when you price compare a new/reman' head. That's why I just mentioned the warpage and pressure tests, that shouldn't be more than an hour which could still run you 100$

maachine

the whole she bang should be one cost per head, at least the machine shops i've dealt with dont charge per hour to do head rebuilds

but of course, the price may vary depending on how bad the heads are

WestSideVB

So looked at my buddies fan shroud and his has the clip on thing at the bottom plus a white plastic right in the outside of the blades. My shroud set up is definitely not right. Going to put it back on as is and try to get that clip on piece or search the junk yards this weekend.

WestSideVB

Good tip on not trusting the jbweld and splents, I decided to drill it and zip tie it too and the splints were off and the JBWeld gave before I had it screwed in. The bottom attachment of the shroud is missing still but the big main piece is on and it still is running too hot. I'll add the attachment but don't think I'm barking up the right tree there. It runs hot even with the AC off, ,so don't think that is the root cause either but I will do doe debugging on that too. Checked the timing, it is correct. Other then the over heating this thing runs really well.

What's my next step? Perhaps I need to put together cliff notes on what's been done thus far. Too tired, tomorrow I will.

jreyes94

your recall was done in 97 too huh? funny, i believe you are the second (or third) person i've read about online to talk to a dealership and have them report the V06 recall being done in 97'...including my truck as well..how strange
i dont mean to discourage your motivation to solve this issue, but i seriously think your truck has finally encountered the inevitable 3.0 HG Issue while in your posession..

i know i was posting when you originally started this thread and i skimmed through it up to date, and i dont recall you ever saying whether you checked your engine oil?
i was hell bent on believing the tstat being the issue in my 3.0 because when i checked my oil dipstick, it was honey clear. but after draining my oil i realized that oil is heavier than coolant/water, because it drained looking nice, until the last quart or so of oil came out like chocolate milk. im too lazy to go back and find out whether you have done this, but if not, i strongly recomend it

WestSideVB

I checked the dip stick and it looks good. I have not drained it to check it though. The coolant is also looking good and the level is not decreasing. Compression check also leaned away from blown gasket. Exhaust smoke free and sweet scent free. The current theory after eliminating a couple other things is... The head gasket is not blown and leaking; but the head gasket and the coolant tunnels in the block are all clogged up. There were some sample pics and several posts on the topic not too far back.

One of the problems with learning everything you all have helped me learn of the past few weeks is... now Im seeing stuff I just didn't see before under the hood. There are several unrelated little things that need to be done.

WestSideVB

At a reputable radiator shop now for system flush and diagnosis. He said everything was pretty well flushed out and flowed very well. The fluid that came out was still so clean he's going to put it back in. After filling back up he thinks he can tell if it is water pump or head gasket. We'll see.

Anything in particular I should ask him or have him do?

WestSideVB

Looking at having a reputable shop do a water pump kit (with timing belt and tensioner and what not). Is there a big difference in part quality for example between the Aisin (I found online for 330) and the Dayco kits (auto zone 270)? Is Aisin the Toyota part?

The shop will put on parts I carry in but will not warranty in that situation (I still have the manufactures part warranty but not labour and really standing behind the job) so I believe I need to go with the Dayco to get warranty with this shop. They will be billing for 5 hours labour, I know its a big job.

Any recommendations for which kit or where to get is greatly appreciated.

maachine

might as well spend the extra 60 bucks for the warranty. i would

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Aisin should be your OEM part. There is no reason they shouldn't warranty the workmanship no matter what part they are using it's still just the work quality they are warrantying, but I digress.

My re-manufactured water pump for my 22r-e has a big difference in the impeller. The Aisin OEM has a stamped impeller, the re-manufactured one uses a cast impeller. The re-manu' one has twice as many blades that are half the length of the OEM. I'd much rather of had the OEM but didn't know the difference at the time, and once it was off I was pretty well set on changing it out. There is no change in my running temp between the two..

How do those two options compare with the shops parts choice? I'm guessing both of those options were cheaper.

In the end they'll put on what ever you tell them to, and should warranty the workmanship no matter what parts are used or where they came from. If they don't wanna play ball walk away and go somewhere that will cover the workmanship!

WestSideVB

They said they stand behind their work (if something happened on install), but if they put the water pump in and everything is good for two months then the water pump starts leaking they won't warranty the labor to pull and install a new part (of course I have the part warranty though).

Rock Auto has the Aisin timing and water pump kit for 228, but I'm adding seals(2cam, 1crank), the other drive belts, and shipping.
Rock Auto has the Dayco kit for 143, still add the seals, other belts, and the shipping.
Shop wants $270 for the Dayco kit, but then full 1 year warranty (still add seals and belts to that)

Shop is 450 labor (5 hour job)
I have a buddy that will do it for 200, mechanic at a dealer working from home in evenings. no warranty there but at $40hr labor and better parts may be a coin flip I'm willing to partake in.

Wife wants worse part, higher install, and a guarantee (Farley quote in my head). Grand total about 800.
I'm leaning OEM parts and buddy install. Grand total about 550. If he did the Dayco that's 85 less.

Note the grand totals are swayed by $60. Shop put another Tstat in since the symptoms really point that way even though I tested the one in there, so now this is the third Tstat. I'm not going to argue the 60, they spent several hours on it doing tests and diagnosing which they aren't charging for.

Ohhh and I'm looking at the gates AC, P/S, and Alt belts from Rock auto. Good or no?

Thanks for the help, need to pull the trigger ASAP, my two weeks are up. everything pointing water pump over head gasket. no guarantee but that's the best info I can gather included two additional mechanics since last report.