22RE sick of the problems.
12-20-2007, 07:20 AM
#41
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I've seen one done, it was on a Jeep board. They guy ended up cutting the frame rails off forward of the firewall, building new frame rails, and then using the Jeep sheetmetal for the front end since the Yota metal wouldn't fit over the engine.
Picture an early 90's pickup with a Cherokee front clip. Fugly doesn't begin to describe it.
Picture an early 90's pickup with a Cherokee front clip. Fugly doesn't begin to describe it.
12-20-2007, 07:44 AM
#42
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fact is most of these engines are getting to be really old so obviously they are going to have problems. personally i wouldnt have any other engine is my truck right now than a 22re because of how well its treated me and considering the truck is already almost 19 years old
12-20-2007, 07:55 AM
#43
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22RE's are getting up there in years, as the supply of good factory units dwindles the amount of problems with them will just increase.
They have a rep that was earned back in the early to mid 80's, and it is really hard to live up to that rep when compared to modern engines. Back in the early 80's an engine that would run 200k+ with nothing more than a couple timing chain replacements and a valve adjustement was awesome. The power really wasn't lacking THAT much compared to the competition (especially with stock 28" rubber). The engines are beefy from the standpoint you can stand on the throttle all day, run them at extreme angles, run almost any viscosity of engine oil in them, and they'll just keep chugging.
But, by the late 80's, the 22RE was becoming a relic. 31" tires are not its friend. It gets horrible fuel mileage relative to the amount of work it's doing (20 mpg on a <4000lbs truck with 116 hp? Come on!). And needing to tear into the engine every 100k for a timing chain replacement is ridiculous. I'd rip on the valve adjusting thing... but my Cummins needs that too, so I guess it's OK
Can't argue with the reliability of a solid lifter relative to hydraulics though.
Now we're about in 2008, and I can say the 22RE has been past its prime for 20 years. Any new engine getting dropped in one of my Yota's will be a 4.3 Chevy V6 (not exactly a spring chicken, but proven, cheap, and an easy swap). It too is a genuine 200k+ engine, and you don't even have to take the valve covers off to get it there. Way more power and torque, same, if not better fuel economy. I can't justify the additional expense of a 3.4 Toyota... I don't see anything that it can do a 4.3 Chevy can't. And the 4.3 has the good low end torque I love.
But until then.... it'll be GAS ON! in the 22RE and 3.slow till they blow!
They have a rep that was earned back in the early to mid 80's, and it is really hard to live up to that rep when compared to modern engines. Back in the early 80's an engine that would run 200k+ with nothing more than a couple timing chain replacements and a valve adjustement was awesome. The power really wasn't lacking THAT much compared to the competition (especially with stock 28" rubber). The engines are beefy from the standpoint you can stand on the throttle all day, run them at extreme angles, run almost any viscosity of engine oil in them, and they'll just keep chugging.
But, by the late 80's, the 22RE was becoming a relic. 31" tires are not its friend. It gets horrible fuel mileage relative to the amount of work it's doing (20 mpg on a <4000lbs truck with 116 hp? Come on!). And needing to tear into the engine every 100k for a timing chain replacement is ridiculous. I'd rip on the valve adjusting thing... but my Cummins needs that too, so I guess it's OK
Can't argue with the reliability of a solid lifter relative to hydraulics though. Now we're about in 2008, and I can say the 22RE has been past its prime for 20 years. Any new engine getting dropped in one of my Yota's will be a 4.3 Chevy V6 (not exactly a spring chicken, but proven, cheap, and an easy swap). It too is a genuine 200k+ engine, and you don't even have to take the valve covers off to get it there. Way more power and torque, same, if not better fuel economy. I can't justify the additional expense of a 3.4 Toyota... I don't see anything that it can do a 4.3 Chevy can't. And the 4.3 has the good low end torque I love.
But until then.... it'll be GAS ON! in the 22RE and 3.slow till they blow!
one thing to add: 22-RE's are great engines, they even run on three cylinders, no oil, and a hole in the block big enough to throw a kitten through...............ask me how I know?
12-20-2007, 10:23 AM
#44
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^^ I think this pretty much sums everything up, and I agree with everything but the part about swapping in an engine from another manufacturer, just seems wrong.
one thing to add: 22-RE's are great engines, they even run on three cylinders, no oil, and a hole in the block big enough to throw a kitten through...............ask me how I know?
one thing to add: 22-RE's are great engines, they even run on three cylinders, no oil, and a hole in the block big enough to throw a kitten through...............ask me how I know?
12-21-2007, 01:05 AM
#45
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I was waiting for that.......
I threw a rod in my old 4runner after ignoring the oil for too long (young = stupid), let it sit for about six months until I found a good engine, got the 4runner started with jumper cables and WD-40, and drove it about 7 miles to where I put the new engine in, it barely made it there and seized in the parking lot
It was a very loud trip, and a great learning experience, I couldn't believe the size of the hole in the side of the block, you could easily put your fist through it (I never did find a kitten to test out my theory)
I threw a rod in my old 4runner after ignoring the oil for too long (young = stupid), let it sit for about six months until I found a good engine, got the 4runner started with jumper cables and WD-40, and drove it about 7 miles to where I put the new engine in, it barely made it there and seized in the parking lot
It was a very loud trip, and a great learning experience, I couldn't believe the size of the hole in the side of the block, you could easily put your fist through it (I never did find a kitten to test out my theory)
12-21-2007, 04:44 AM
#46
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The 22RE is not a torque-y engine at all. It has a larger bore Vs. stroke common in cars and motorcycles. Note that it was in almost every car Toyota imported at one point. It made into trucks because it was all they had, not because it was the "right" engine for the job. That ratio lends itself to revving. If you want it to move you, tune it to rev and increase the torque by lowering the gearing. That will make a big difference. This works well, if you are in doubt, take a sport bike for a spin.
The 3VZE, on the other hand is a torque-y engine from the standpoint that its stroke is larger than its bore. Unfortunately, it is still too small to pull a 4000lb truck with poor aerodynamics and high rolling resistance. The auto's too tall overdrive only makes life on it harder.
The 3.4 is the right engine for 2/3's+ of the populace. Toyota chose that displacement for a reason.
Frank
The 3VZE, on the other hand is a torque-y engine from the standpoint that its stroke is larger than its bore. Unfortunately, it is still too small to pull a 4000lb truck with poor aerodynamics and high rolling resistance. The auto's too tall overdrive only makes life on it harder.
The 3.4 is the right engine for 2/3's+ of the populace. Toyota chose that displacement for a reason.
Frank
I suggest you go read the 22re tech notes from Toyosport and see what they say about the motor. Specifically the section in which they say "The carbureted engines developed 185-195 HP, but consistently out ran the 239-240 HP Ford engines in the same class. The secret is in the torquey characteristics of the power band." Also to those who are installing cams and headers on EFI models. "Do not try to install cams with duration over 280 on single carb or fuel injection models" I did this and had horrible results on my 94. replaced the cam with a different one and much better. Also a 22re is nothing like a sport bike. Look at the redline of a 22re compared to a sport bike. Most sport bikes redline between 8000 and 9500 rpms. A 22re redline is less than 6000. Plus the 22re has a cast iron block and other heavier engine parts. To compar it to a sport bike is foolish. It would have to have an aluminum block double overhead cams and a four valve head etc and have a red line of at least 7500.
12-21-2007, 05:03 AM
#48
Registered User
I was waiting for that.......
I threw a rod in my old 4runner after ignoring the oil for too long (young = stupid), let it sit for about six months until I found a good engine, got the 4runner started with jumper cables and WD-40, and drove it about 7 miles to where I put the new engine in, it barely made it there and seized in the parking lot
It was a very loud trip, and a great learning experience, I couldn't believe the size of the hole in the side of the block, you could easily put your fist through it (I never did find a kitten to test out my theory)
I threw a rod in my old 4runner after ignoring the oil for too long (young = stupid), let it sit for about six months until I found a good engine, got the 4runner started with jumper cables and WD-40, and drove it about 7 miles to where I put the new engine in, it barely made it there and seized in the parking lot
It was a very loud trip, and a great learning experience, I couldn't believe the size of the hole in the side of the block, you could easily put your fist through it (I never did find a kitten to test out my theory)
Last edited by ozziesironmanoffroad; 12-21-2007 at 05:05 AM.
12-21-2007, 05:21 AM
#49
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I suggest you go read the 22re tech notes from Toyosport and see what they say about the motor. Specifically the section in which they say "The carbureted engines developed 185-195 HP, but consistently out ran the 239-240 HP Ford engines in the same class. The secret is in the torquey characteristics of the power band." Also to those who are installing cams and headers on EFI models. "Do not try to install cams with duration over 280 on single carb or fuel injection models" I did this and had horrible results on my 94. replaced the cam with a different one and much better. Also a 22re is nothing like a sport bike. Look at the redline of a 22re compared to a sport bike. Most sport bikes redline between 8000 and 9500 rpms. A 22re redline is less than 6000. Plus the 22re has a cast iron block and other heavier engine parts. To compar it to a sport bike is foolish. It would have to have an aluminum block double overhead cams and a four valve head etc and have a red line of at least 7500.
That is apples to oranges and I doubt it shares much at all with the little 119 horsepower version we're talking about in this thread.
12-21-2007, 05:28 AM
#50
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It does not change the fact that the engine is more of a torquey engine than a reving engine no matter how much horsepower it makes. To say that just because an engine has a larger bore than stroke it has to be reved to get power is foolish. That is the majority of engines out there. You have to look at the stroke of one engine as compared to that of another of similar displacement. The one with the longer stoke is more torquey regardless of the bore and stroke ratio. The only engines that tend to have longer strokes than bores are diesels. Cummins 5.9 has a 100mm bore and a 119 mm stroke.
12-21-2007, 05:31 AM
#51
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Ok.
http://list.priceweber.com/cummins/million_mile.html
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/d...p/t-37222.html
I think I saw a Saab or Volvo somewhere that went 1M on the original engine too.
12-21-2007, 08:47 AM
#52
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got you to the garage even with a hole in the block huh? rock on 22re! hey remember that dude who had the 22re in a 91, i think, and got it to a million miles just by doing minor tune up work? THATS what people should look at when they talk down about the 22res. lets see anything but a toyota or, i hate to admit it, but honda, do that.
and for the comment about the saab or volvo, I too remember the story about a Volvo doing a million miles, but IIRC the guy had swapped out the engine a few times, he put newer turbo engine in it because he wanted more power or something,
I wish I could find the sites (dang interweb is too big nowdays, can't find a map either) so I could be sure about those things
and yes, proper upkeep on a diesel can get you a million miles, but think about who is engineering most of the diesels nowdays? the "big three" are merely buying the engines and installing them in thier own platforms
12-21-2007, 08:56 AM
#53
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thats horse cuz my truck has over 280,000 and a rebuild in the last 2,000 miles and it still runs strong. i just putheaders and exhaust on and itruns cherry. idk where you guys are getting motors, butits not where i am
12-22-2007, 02:44 PM
#54
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skife sorry I had surgery and just now back to my laptop
first the knock sensor needs to be mounted into the block even if you have to use a adapter otherwise it will retard the timing reducing power. Also the pre 84 block has a lower compression ratio than the 85-95 so the feel will be different, the cly head and dished pistons on the early blocks are good for carbed applications not efi. The steel rockers on the early motors are louder than the aluminum ones on 85-95 also check and make sure the rockers don't hit the later valve cover baffle inside the cover. You have some options but the way you are setup now I don't think you are going to be happy
first the knock sensor needs to be mounted into the block even if you have to use a adapter otherwise it will retard the timing reducing power. Also the pre 84 block has a lower compression ratio than the 85-95 so the feel will be different, the cly head and dished pistons on the early blocks are good for carbed applications not efi. The steel rockers on the early motors are louder than the aluminum ones on 85-95 also check and make sure the rockers don't hit the later valve cover baffle inside the cover. You have some options but the way you are setup now I don't think you are going to be happy
12-22-2007, 06:05 PM
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i am coming on my third toyota(83 4x4 longbed, 87 runner ,884runner) all with the 22rs. Mine just turned 305K and it still pulls strong. I have had great success with these engines and I want to buy a new one when the time is ready. LC engineering seems to have some great engines but at a steep price. I dont want to do a rebuild because I want to start with a fresh engine and tranny from Marlin Crawler. I am not a hardcore offroader, but I want my platform to be ready and not break on the trail.
12-24-2007, 10:22 AM
#56
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i am coming on my third toyota(83 4x4 longbed, 87 runner ,884runner) all with the 22rs. Mine just turned 305K and it still pulls strong. I have had great success with these engines and I want to buy a new one when the time is ready. LC engineering seems to have some great engines but at a steep price. I dont want to do a rebuild because I want to start with a fresh engine and tranny from Marlin Crawler. I am not a hardcore offroader, but I want my platform to be ready and not break on the trail.
12-24-2007, 12:26 PM
#57
haha this thread is amusing ! D
im no toyota freak or anything like that i have owned a billion vehicles over the years since 1994 and none of them foreign until i got my toyota pickup 4 years ago, it now has over 137k on it and the only bad thing i had happen was the timing chain tensioner failed
so i put a cheap 40 dollar o reilly auto timing set and tensioner kit on it and it has bene great for two years now
very noisy rattling top end rockers and all and now a nice oil leak due to the front end of the head gasket having come off when i replaced the timing set, i work the hell out of this truck pulling weight and hauling loads and often run it over 75mph for extended poeriods of time, the temp sensor doesnt work neither does the fuel guage but at least one thing in the dash still works- the speedo and odometer, also i did have to replace the original alternator, it died and they wanted over 100 bucks for one so i was like screw all that and i stuck an old chevy alternato on it had laying around(i have a building full of old parts) and its awesome
its been a hell of a work truck and has surprised the hell out of me i have owned this truck longer than any other vehicle i have had except my trans am
even the TPs is failing on it and sometimes it cuts out a little taking off from a stop or doesnt restartwarm right away abut then if i mess with it a bit it is fine for a long time after that
very reliable in my book for its age and so on
two thumbs up
also it only weighs 2720lbs with me in it,
its the A43D auto trans
i take it all over the place every day out of town commonly, never once have i been stranded or anything else
sure 4.3L gm can run over 200k commonly, but they have issues, more than this 22RE has, including leaks and oil burning and fuel issues, among others, and they arent the best on fuel useage either, and they are commonly noisy(exhaust rumbly)
id have to say the most reliable engines other than some sbc engines are the 3800 GM engines 88-up in the W-bodies and such
those things are commonly up around 300k before we have to replace them
all depends on how you drive and take care of them as well
heres my 88 toyota rustbucket pos that always runs and goes(frame rail on pass side about to break due to severe rot i now have an angle iron patch on it to keep the spring hanger in place and maybe keep the rail from breaking for a little longer)
i figured that it was foreign and would last maye a year if i was lucky
especially after i was told about how it was left sitting parked in theoriginal owners yard for about 6 years and had sunken into the ground and locked the brakes up and stuff
i was wrong
its still running driving strong!
all i do is change the oil every couple months and drive the wheels off it every day
and lod heavy crap on it and pull heavy things and cars with it often(just yanked an 85 cutlass(dead 3.8L engine at only 101k miles- failed oil pump locked crankshaft so its going to the shredder soon)) with it a bit ago today)
some 22R are noisy and some arent, its very random it seems, i live with it, i dont care especially afte ri chjecked the valve lash and they were fine as is, its running perfect and strong, it outruns all these stupid cars running around these days, easily, bottom end anyways, and will cruise on the freeway passing cars left and right as well
it hasnt been modified screwed with opened up other than the timing set replacement i did
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...s/88%20toyota/
some ppl just have bad luck i guess
hmm
its too bad mine has severe rot and is going to collapse and waste a perfectly nice runnign drivetrain(to the shredder when it does)
this is probably the most reliable and best beater i have ever owned to date
virtually, close tie anyways
and i have owned some real reliable beaters, at least this one has floorboards and such though.
its alwyas the crap looking ones that are relaible and run great, the nice looking ones are always the non running or crappy running ones that go to the shredder
hmm,
Dim no toyota freak or anything like that i have owned a billion vehicles over the years since 1994 and none of them foreign until i got my toyota pickup 4 years ago, it now has over 137k on it and the only bad thing i had happen was the timing chain tensioner failed
so i put a cheap 40 dollar o reilly auto timing set and tensioner kit on it and it has bene great for two years now
very noisy rattling top end rockers and all and now a nice oil leak due to the front end of the head gasket having come off when i replaced the timing set, i work the hell out of this truck pulling weight and hauling loads and often run it over 75mph for extended poeriods of time, the temp sensor doesnt work neither does the fuel guage but at least one thing in the dash still works- the speedo and odometer, also i did have to replace the original alternator, it died and they wanted over 100 bucks for one so i was like screw all that and i stuck an old chevy alternato on it had laying around(i have a building full of old parts) and its awesome
its been a hell of a work truck and has surprised the hell out of me i have owned this truck longer than any other vehicle i have had except my trans am
even the TPs is failing on it and sometimes it cuts out a little taking off from a stop or doesnt restartwarm right away abut then if i mess with it a bit it is fine for a long time after that
very reliable in my book for its age and so on
two thumbs up
also it only weighs 2720lbs with me in it,
its the A43D auto trans
i take it all over the place every day out of town commonly, never once have i been stranded or anything else
sure 4.3L gm can run over 200k commonly, but they have issues, more than this 22RE has, including leaks and oil burning and fuel issues, among others, and they arent the best on fuel useage either, and they are commonly noisy(exhaust rumbly)
id have to say the most reliable engines other than some sbc engines are the 3800 GM engines 88-up in the W-bodies and such
those things are commonly up around 300k before we have to replace them
all depends on how you drive and take care of them as well
heres my 88 toyota rustbucket pos that always runs and goes(frame rail on pass side about to break due to severe rot i now have an angle iron patch on it to keep the spring hanger in place and maybe keep the rail from breaking for a little longer)
i figured that it was foreign and would last maye a year if i was lucky
especially after i was told about how it was left sitting parked in theoriginal owners yard for about 6 years and had sunken into the ground and locked the brakes up and stuff
i was wrong
its still running driving strong!
all i do is change the oil every couple months and drive the wheels off it every day
and lod heavy crap on it and pull heavy things and cars with it often(just yanked an 85 cutlass(dead 3.8L engine at only 101k miles- failed oil pump locked crankshaft so its going to the shredder soon)) with it a bit ago today)
some 22R are noisy and some arent, its very random it seems, i live with it, i dont care especially afte ri chjecked the valve lash and they were fine as is, its running perfect and strong, it outruns all these stupid cars running around these days, easily, bottom end anyways, and will cruise on the freeway passing cars left and right as well
it hasnt been modified screwed with opened up other than the timing set replacement i did
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...s/88%20toyota/
some ppl just have bad luck i guess
hmm
its too bad mine has severe rot and is going to collapse and waste a perfectly nice runnign drivetrain(to the shredder when it does)
this is probably the most reliable and best beater i have ever owned to date
virtually, close tie anyways
and i have owned some real reliable beaters, at least this one has floorboards and such though.
its alwyas the crap looking ones that are relaible and run great, the nice looking ones are always the non running or crappy running ones that go to the shredder
hmm,
Last edited by fast68; 12-24-2007 at 12:40 PM.
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