scheefdog

I've been surfing around YotaTech for a few weeks and think it is a great forum so I decided to join. I also have a new to me 79 truck that I purchased a couple of weeks ago that I am excited about. I have always owned Toyota trucks and have always wanted a 1st gen w/ the round headlights. Well I picked one up....I plan to use it to bomb around town and as a trail rig...

I bought it from a kid who was getting rid of it because the engine was blown and didn't want to spend the money to get it fixed. He only owned the truck for a few months and was driving on the highway going up a hill and the truck lost power and started knocking. He towed it to a local mechanic and the guy said it would need a new engine because the crankshaft bearings were gone.

By the looks of it, the previous owner of the truck had done a fair amount of work under the hood. The transmission is painted blue so it must have been rebuilt and the transfer case looks newer. Both felt good while shifting. There is a new weber carb installed, new water pump and radiator, probably a timing chain because the front cover is all cleaned, new spark plugs and wires. A bunch of new parts and a bad motor....

The body is in decent shape, looks straight w/ the usual rust spots. Interior is fairly ratty and there are some good Flinstone holes underneath the floor mats that will need to be addressed. He wanted to unload it for cheap so I decided to go for it. This is my first project truck.

I towed it home and looked things over(the truck sat for 6 months) The battery was totally dead, the radiator didn't have any coolant in it, the oil looked good. I filled the radiator up with water and put the jumper cables on and she fired right up...but had a loud knocking sound. I was tempted to try to drive but didn't want to do any further damage. So I've been surfing all over looking up remanufactured motors and used motors etc... I decided to just tear into it today to see if I could find the problem...

I pulled the spark plugs, they all looked decent. I drained the oil and pulled off the oil pan to look at the crankshaft, there were a few metal shavings in the pan, but not many. No glaring problems from underneath. I decided to pull the valve cover off and I think I found the problem...

The center camshaft bearing cap was sheared off with just the edges still bolted on! You can see how it is missing in the pic below and the scoring in the camshaft.
I pulled off the rocker arm assembly and found the front camshaft bearing cap was cracked and the camshaft had enough play to eat into the head a little. So I pulled the whole head off to look at the pistons/cylinders and see if they looked ok and they actually look good.

So I'm hoping I don't need a new engine or an entire rebuild. I'm going to pick up a complete used head w/ camshaft and rocker arm assembly hopefully in the next couple days from a Toyota salvage yard that is close. I would like to just get the truck running so I can actually drive it and see how everything else is.

Do you think the rest of the engine is still fine? What should I look for?

Also, what do you think caused the problem? Lack of oil?

Plumbrbob

I'd say worth the gamble I'd slap a good head on it and see if you can get er to go bet you'd rather spend some money on tires instead of a new motor

rumrunner6907

sweet ride id take that gamble even if it need to be rebuilt your just one step closer so its a win win

scheefdog

Thought I would post a few more pics of my truck. As you can see the interior is hammered, I guess the seat is decent.

So I picked up a used head and took it to the machine shop in town to get it cleaned and tested. While I was waiting I decided to pull the timing cover off as well to check everything. Put everything back together with a new gasket set and also discovered whoever did work on the truck wasn't very good at keeping track of bolts as there are a lot of mis-match and replacements everywhere.

I put the head back on and adjusted the valves, new spark plugs, coolant, and oil. She fired right up, except for there is still a knocking that can be heard better because the camshaft is quiet. There is also some air rushing out of somewhere that I thought was just the exhaust manifold leaking. I unbolted it though and when I turn the engine over by hand I can hear air being pushed. Is a valve leaking? I tested the compression(I'm not sure how accurate the gauge is) and I had 70, 90, 100, and 110. I pulled the oil pan off again and looked at the crankshaft. The rods all seem to have about the same amount of play so I'm guessing its the main bearings? Turning the engine by hand it sounds like there is actually air coming out from underneath a piston as well.

So it isn't as simple as just the head. Now I need some advice. Should I just buy a remanufactured short block? Has anyone bought one from somewhere in Colorado? If I do that I need to take my head into the machine shop again and have a valve job done on it.

camo31_10.50

the rods shouldn't have ANY PLAY PERIOD.....lol that's where the knock is coming from.


and yes your compression is low..before i rebuilt my 22r it had almost 200psi in all cylinders (it was a very peppy motor)..after i put a new head on it after the first headgasket..it had 150psi across the board.



and yes when you unbolt the manifold...you should hear air rushing out as you turn the motor over...that's how motors work...they push out the exhaust gasses....lmao

and no..i'd just buy a crankshaft kit from your local auto parts store...should be around like $300-$400..and comes with a new crankshaft, and new bearings.

scheefdog

So I went down and talked to the guy at the machine shop this morning and he gave me some advice(luckily he has a toyota himself). He told me to look at the rod bearings first and maybe I could get away with just replacing the bearings and said the side to side play was normal. I went ahead and started pulling the caps off the rods and found that one of them had spun a bearing. So that was the knocking. Took the cap and bearing down to the machine shop and he said pull the engine because the crank is no longer within tolerance.

Now I have to decide what to do. I would like to try the 20/22r hybrid. Does someone sell a 22r re-manufactured short block that doesn't have a core charge?

There is also a 22r engine on craigslist nearby that has 170k on it that includes a weber for $400 obo. I haven't called on it so I don't know the year and details.

xxxtreme22r

let me guess it was #4 bearing?

Plumbrbob

how much did the machinist say he would charge you to grind the crank? and I would ask him how much he would charge to go through the whole bottom end and then you can throw a master kit at it.... might be a better bet to have it done right and new instead of chasing after another old and tired motor for $400..... could end up spending double that or a little more and be good for a long long time considering you dont neglect it somehow.... from what I remember the old 20r motors compression specs are toped out around 160 the 85+ block is aroiund 190.... but those compression number you got with a new head and gasket is a sign of worn rings considering the head job was done correctly

As far as hybrid motors go they are very awesome you can rev the heck out of em I have had two in the last 3 years BUT its a little more than just slapping a 22r block and a 20r head together if you want to get it right I'd stick with stock setup to be reliable the 20r motors in stock form are hard to kill

good luck

scheefdog

Plumberbob-
You say the hybrid motor is a little more than just slapping a 22r block and a 20r head together. What other modifications are needed? I'm asking because I was talking to the guy at the machine shop about it and he had heard of it and tried to research it but was never able to find out what other mods needed to be done.

xxxtreme22r

all the info you need on the hybrid motor:
http://www.toysport.com/Technical%20...tech_notes.htm

scheefdog

Thanks for the link on the hybrid motor. This is what I'm thinking...

I found a place here in CO that sells a remanufactured 22r short block for $650 including shipping and there is no core charge. I'm thinking order that and take my 20r head back into the machine shop to have a valve job done on it. What does it mean to have it ported? I don't have a bunch of money to throw at it so I would like to keep it as basic as possible. I already have a weber with an electronic fuel pump and a regulator. So can it be as simple of just getting my head worked on a little and then bolting it on the short block?

Do you have to run premium with the 20/22r hybrid?

truckman1966

no you don't have to run premium. there really is no advantage to doing a hybrid except for the added .2L of displacement. the head flows exactly the same, the stroke is the same. valves are almost the same (minimal gains on a flow bench). the only BASIC difference between a 20r and a 22r are the bores. if i remember correctly, 20r bore is 88.5mm and 22r is 92mm

4x4YOTA

iTrader: (2)

where in CO are you I rebuild toyota motors for fun maybe i could help its easy and cheaper to do it yourself I rebuild my 22R couple months back and already got over 2500 on her and still pulling strong

Plumbrbob

you can slap the two together it will run.... will you get any gain in that form not really...to properly build a hydrid for performance you will need to build your head ie. bigger valves, cam kit, exhaust upgrade, gasket match, and port the crap out of your head.....also there is the degreeing of the cam timing to really open up the motor its 3 degrees retard or advanced I cant remember you would have to research it from the celica boards they have all the tricks on this setup......If you do it all the mods there is a significant gain I could burn rubber with my 36" swampers and I cleaned lugs in mud pits the motor also revved very high with power in all ranges... unfortunatly I ditched the motor and went efi due to the carb loading up when off camber issue...honestly if your tight on money keep it as stock as can .....I am running a stock setup 22re now

good luck

Plumbrbob

this may be your best bet...plastigauge the journals check mic the bores send it to the machine shop if its out of tolarances you already got a good head just dial in that bottom end

scheefdog

Thanks for the offer 4x4YOTA, but I live in Gunnison (west side of the mountains).

Thanks for info on the hybrid, I want to get everything ordered this week. I'm thinking I'm better off just throwing down for the short block because I know it is assembled correctly and it has a warranty. Also there is only the one machine shop in town and I don't think I have the patients to do the rebuild(I'm also using a friends shop space).

So I want to do everything and do it right (keeping it close to stock). I'm making a list of what I need, can you guys give me some input.

Remanufactured Short Block (early 22r)
22r Gasket Set (any recommendations?)
New Oil Pump
Water Pump
Timing Chain?(it was replaced not that long ago)
Header (I think mine is probably warped)

Is it worth replacing the clutch at the same time? The tranny bellhousing is painted blue so that must have been rebuilt at some point.

Also, the bolts/nuts on everything(timing cover, intake manifold, exhaust manifold) are mismatched. Is there anywhere to buy new sets?

scheefdog

I finally ordered a remanufactured 22r short block last week after calling a bunch of places to try to find one. I went ahead and pulled the old block out of my truck yesterday. The removal went fairly smoothly, although I think it is going to be tricky lining up the input shaft putting the new block back in. A couple of questions. What is the sensor on the side of the block behind the oil filter? You can see it in the picture below. I ask because the wire leading to it was severed.

Also, I pulled the clutch and flywheel off the motor and the clutch looks pretty new. Can I just put it on the new motor since it looks like it has a lot of life left? The flywheel looks great, you can still see the pattern on it from it being machined. Obviously, the clutch was replaced not that long ago. The pressure plate is the only part that I question, the surface on it is a little worn and there are a few tiny hairline cracks on the inside of the disc, only about a quarter inch. See the pic of the clutch.

If I get a new clutch I think I will just order an Aisin from Trail Gear. Also, is anyone running their header? It is on sale right now for $250 and I'm tempted to order one.

xxxtreme22r

that sensor is the oil pressure sensor.

Da_Beast74

I would just get a new clutch. You can get them stock for about a hundred bucks. Or you can get a flywheel for about 50... your call. I would replace the whole thing though and do it right.

you look like you got a good project there. I have one as well, an 84 4x4 22r. Engine has seen much better days, has a very loud knock. Bout to tear it apart and rebuild it.

scheefdog

I've been meaning to post an update of my progress so here it is. I got my new short block installed. I decided to reinstall the clutch because I took it to the auto parts store and compared it to a new one and it looked pretty damn close. I used some new flywheel bolts and head bolts from LCE as well as a timing cover bolt set(better than putting back on the mis-match bolts). The timing chain and guides looked almost new so I also reused them as well. The whole reinstall went smoothly, I wished I had access to a parts washer because most of my time was spent cleaning parts.



I re-adjusted the valves cold and again hot after running the engine. I found out the temperature gauge in the truck wasn't working so I was afraid to drive it until I fixed it. It ended up being a loose wire on the back of the gauge cluster(one of the hot connections). I installed a new thermostat at the same time as well. Finally got to take the truck on a little test drive and it drove great. The engine is smooth and the clutch and tranny feel good.



I have been messing with the carb and timing and would like some tuning suggestions. After doing some searching I have figured out it is a weber 34/34 (or whatever knockoff that is) with an electric choke. It also has an electronic fuel pump and adjustable fuel regulator. What setting should the regulator be at? I live and will be driving the truck at 8,000ft, the air is thin but I think this hybrid motor will be good with the little bump up in compression. Any carb adjustment suggestions?

I also ran into a problem last week with the truck. The battery totally died while I was driving it the other day so I'm thinking the alternator isn't charging(I still haven't driven the truck much). The wiring is all hacked up and put back together before the plug into the voltage regulator. Is there a way I can test the alternator and the voltage regulator with a voltmeter to see if one is not working? I would like to clean up the wiring as well, can anyone tell me how it should be? See the pic below.




Thanks for all the info! I've been searching all over the site finding valuable stuff.