GeminiFire

hey guys!
ok so i have a 22r out of an 84 in my 80 4x4 LB Pickup. i blew up the the head gasket by overheating it trying to drive it with no fluid(didnt know at first until it was too late because for some reason my temp sender wont work.. not quite sure how those work anyway.. resistence? anyway..).

long story short i redid the head, had it shaved, put an extra thick head gasket on there blah blah blah. i made SURE not to let slack in the timing chain get to the bottom end(crank shaft) so im pretty sure its not off a tooth but i cant get this thing to idle. my weber 32/36 was JUST tuned so i know its not that plus when i do find the magic gear in the distributor it almost runs ok and has great response from the throttle SO... carb is ruled out. it runs like a tractor and ive popped the dist. out more than a few times and it wont even run on the gears next to the "happy gear" it wants to run but it just wont. i dont have any vacuum leaks either i checked with starting fluid. its driving me CRAZY that im so close to driving my buddy around again, blue boy is super sad that he cant stay running..

Can anybody help us?? Thanks in advance guys

oh and JUST incase the chain is off a tooth, is there an easy way to tell? when my wife and i put it into TDC the cam dot was at 12 o'clock. so it seemed fine. idk its really strange and frusterating. keep in mind nothing is old on here motor wise its a FRESH rebuild so im not at risk of faulty parts im sure of it.

1stgenboy

Dude! define "runs like a tractor?" Does that mean it would pull a stump, but not get up to freway speed? You say it has excelent throttle response, but won't idle. Does this mean getting it to idle is your only problem? If you can be clearer on your symptoms it would help. Is it drivable at all?

1stgenboy

GeminiFire

my only problem is it wont idle and the motor runs rough even when its timed correctly it is super shaky and not smooth at all. everything is adjusted as far as i can tell. it SOUNDS like a tractor when giving it gas (to keep it running). when i pull the vacuum advance it wants to idle a little better. i have it desmogged so im only running the brake booster and vac advance as far as vacuum lines go.. it will run and it drives fine, havent brought it past 25 mph though because im scared to take it out of my neighborhood.

so my question now is this: could my overheating the motor screw up the alternator(which is brand new) or could it mess up the ignitor somehow? keep in mind the head gasket blew and massive water from the coolant system ran through the pistons.
I replaced the spark plugs which got it started(wouldnt start with the also brand new plugs that it overheated with but with new plugs it started right up.. just wont idle)

im at a loss, everything ran perfectly a week ago when it overheated, then when i was driving home it broke down a few times due to the overheating(at which point i figured everything was messed up and so i carried on from portland to salem(and hour drive). it finally broke down but as it was dying(still driving but overheated, towards to beginning of the trip home) it stopped idling. i figured it was because there was no compression at idle and by fixing all that with a shaved head and new head gasket that it would fix the idling problem.. well come to find out that after the rebuild of the top end it STILL wont idle. its crazy and VERY frusterating.. lol

hope thats enough info, thanks for your help!

igotit

have you ran a compression check?
with the plugs out,is the engine easy to turn over by hand,or tight?

im thinking you may have burned some rings,or messed up some bearings from overheating a lil too much.

GeminiFire

no compression test yet but it has power so why would it die if it runs great with some gas applied but it wont idle.. is there a way to tell for sure if my timing chain didnt skip a tooth when i reinstalled everything without pulling the timing cover? the motor isnt easy but isnt hard to turn with the plugs out. everything feels good, like all the other 22r's 22re's and 20r's ive worked on. and it sounds great when its turned on so im thinking the bearings are ok too.

igotit

Put the number 1 at tdc, pull the valve cover, the dot on the cam gear should be at 12 oclock position.

GeminiFire

Ok then i have done that and it is for sure timed correctly as far as the actual chain goes. ive timed it with a light over and over on several teeth(always starting from tdc of course) and the only gear that it will even run on still wont allow it to idle correctly. can you explain how bad rings or bearings would affect the idle but allow it to run otherwise? like with gas applied?

Thanks!

igotit

Bad rings/bearings could cause a tightness, in idle your engine doesnt make enough power to keep running.....im not saying thats your problem, just something to look into.
But if your bearing were bad, your oil pressure would be really high....or really low.
If the rings/cylinder walls were to blame, a compression test may show you low compression.

1stgenboy

What color are the plugs when you pull them? Are 3 tan to dark tan like they should be and one brand new clean? Get the valves to tight?

to be honest with you, were it mine and it had the symptoms you describe, I would run it down the road some and see if clears it's self up.

igotit

oh yeah....forgot about the valves....did you readjust after the shaved head install.
i just had to do the same on my 82.

GeminiFire

Yeah i readjusted everything upon the rebuild. i just tried retuning my carb JUST in case it was the problem but now its still not idling and having the same problem.

I just did a compression check with another neighbors compression checker(the kind that you have to hold, not the screw in kind which is pointless and probably gave me a bad reading, so im going to wait until my other neighber gets home so i can use his screw in kind but the compression is actually very low.. about 70 all the way around. im thinking rings at this point and im totally devistated... can i take my pistons out while the bottom end is still in the truck? i would LOVE not having to pull the motor at this point. and where is a good place to get new rings for a bored .030 over rock dome pistons?

Thanks guys!

igotit

Im just about certin you can overhaul it in the frame

GeminiFire

ok so i take the pistons out, whats the procedure to put them back in with new rings? do i need assembly lube? (the bottom end was already put together when i put everything together initially).

igotit

oil the pistons and rings before putting them in the compressor,lightly lube the cylinder walls,then tap them in from the top.
just like you would if the engine was out.
be sure to wash out the cylinders after honing them,youll have to leave the crank installed though....wash thouroughly.
if you can pull your oil pan off without removing anything,you should beable to overhaul.

GeminiFire

ok but i just put a 50 dollar head gasket on and fired it up for about 10 minutes over a few times starting it and brought it up to temp, do you think i can reuse the head gasket or is there a way to remove the pistons from the bottom? i should have no problem getting the oil pan off ive done it plenty of times. im really hoping theres a way to redo the rings from underneath.. Thanks!

igotit

Never reuse any head gasket, once its torqed and heated,its sealed itself to the block.
Only way the pistons can come out the bottom is if you remove the crank.... You have to pull the engine to remove the crank.

i suggest doing a good compression check before deciding to overhaul.

peow130

you can pull the crank with the block in the truck, but you'll save yourself hours of eye-burning oil splashes and busted knuckles if you just pull the engine.

igotit

inorder to pull the crank you need to remove the flywheel from the engine,so either the engine or tranny will have to come out to disconnect the crank from the flywheel/clucth.

as stated,id just remove the entire engine....its not too difficult.

GeminiFire

damnit.. ok.. so do you guys think i messed up the pistons or bore in any way or would it just be the rings? where do i get a ring compressor and where do i order the rings and possibly bearings from?

thanks for all the help, im totally bummed but im glad i can get some answers..

igotit

your local auto parts store should have everything you need,but i always buy online through ebay,or an online store.
but ive never ordered toyota parts....couldnt tell ya what vender to use.
be sure to order rings for the size pistons you have ,standard is stock,the make upto .60 over sized for bored out engines.