drokliss

Much to my shock and surprise, my truck passed the Oregon DEQ this morning. I thought I'd pass on what I did in case others want to give it a shot.

Here's the list of stuff I did:

• Fixed an exhaust leak at the manifold (needed new flange gaskets at the bottom of the exhaust manifold)
• New california cat - the california cats apparently do a better job of blocking stuff?
• new cap/rotor - already had new plugs/wires
• set timing to 13 degrees initial setting - based on feedback from redline/weber
• tuned weber carb for "best idle" and mixture according to the weber docs on the redline weber site. Idle ended up about 900-1000, there are still some issues, but I'm happy with it for now.

Keeping in mind this truck has NO EGR and NO vaccuum lines except the advance. PVC is still hooked up.

Good luck to other out there with a similar setup.

80t0ylc

That is so cool! I bought my '81 with a Weber and in fixing all the vacuum leaks I lost all the hoses except the vacuum advance. I was afraid that I'd have to leave it here in John Day if I ever moved to the Valley. Just need to find that cat that lives underneath that somehow got lost also . Thanks for posting!

xxxtreme22r

I don't know about the 20r and if you have a 22r or 20r but weber told you to set timing to 13 BTDC on a 22r motor?

drokliss

Yes, they suggested 13 deg. BTDC as the starting point (idle). So far the truck's been running way better than when I got it. Oh, and it's a 22r (81, dual timing chain)

xxxtreme22r

jesus mine runs like crap anything above 5 btdc. Those early 22r's have the same timing spec (0 degrees) as the later model right?

drokliss

No, FSM for my truck I think said about 8 deg. initial timing. If it's running rough above 5 deg., you should be able to adjust mixture/idle speed. At least, that's how I got mine to advance to where it is.

xxxtreme22r

I'll have to research that a bit, to me it doesn't make sense that one 22r is 0 degrees and the other is 8 degrees and then you got the 22re which is 5 degrees.

Yup 8 Degrees Before top dead center base timing specification *A special procedure is required to prepare vehicle for proper adjustment *Refer to service manual

But... WTF that's on the autozone site, I plug in my 87 and it still says 8* BTDC which I know 100% is wrong.
Your not getting that 8* from the Haynes Manual are you?
TTORA's FSMs are no help either as the one for the first gens they give you is for an 85 and still says 0*/5* 22r/22re.

drokliss

You're right. Here's what I just looked up in FSM

INSPECT IGNITION TIMING (See step 3 on page IG-10)
Ignition timing:
22R 0° TDC @ Max. 950 rpm
(w Ivacuum advancer OFF)
22R-E 5° BTDC (w/short terminal liT")

BUT, notice it's 0 deg. with vacuum adv. OFF. When it's hooked up it'll advance SOME and when you rev it will advance more. when I say 13 deg. that's with vaccuum advance hooked up. It actually runs pretty good at that setting.

If you want I can forward you the email I first got from weber.

drokliss

Ok, this is getting interesting, here are the actual timing PROCEDURES from the FSM:

(a) Connect a timing light to the engine.
(b) Start the engine and run it at idle.
(c) Using a timing light, slowly turn the distributor until
the timing mark on the crankshaft pulley is alignp~
with the 12° mark. Tighten the distributor bolt.
(d) Recheck the ignition timing.
Ignition timing: 22R 0° TDC (Max. 950 rpm)
(w/vacuum advance cut)
22R-E 5 ° BTDC at idle
(short terminal liT")

notice the reference to 12 degrees....

xxxtreme22r

Ok correct, with vac advance on timing should be about 13-15 degrees. But you don't set timing that way. At least your not supposed to. It's because it doesn't give a solid number it's always adjusting itself because vacuum doesn't stay constant.

I think they reference it that way so your also checking to make sure you have vacuum advance as well.

Funny thing with the weber (at least on mine) The vacuum port on the weber at idle doesn't supply enough vacuum to actuate the advance. It's not until you hit the throttle a little it starts to apply the vacuum.

drokliss

Says who? Mine was rock solid at idle

I never bothered to check with no vaccuum.

xxxtreme22r

so your coming right off of the carb's vacuum port (32/36 right?) and you got vacuum advance at a 750rpm idle? Can you double check that for me without the vacuum on and see if the vac advance goes away (no need to put a timing light on it as it will significantly decrees in idle speed), I might have found myself a problem. lol.

drokliss

I'll check today. And yes, it's coming straight off the vaccuum on a 32/36 DGEV (I'll take a pic and upload to make sure I know what I'm talking about)

80t0ylc

Not to get in the big middle of your dialog, but while adjusting the timing on mine, I set it at the 8* that the owner's manual suggested, with vac.adv disco'd. And yes, when you re-hook vac.adv, the idle speed increased. Something's still not right, though. I should have more power. I'm going to mess around with the timing and see if I can get more power. How did you set your mixture? Maybe I need to check that first.

drokliss

I'm assuming you're using a weber too? Might try 13 deg.

drokliss

Vacuum Advance location:




Mixture adjustment screw:



And just for fun, here's a video of it idling at 13 degrees. I should probably note that I think the choke is more or less stuck mostly closed, that may affect how it runs (broken idle choke spring or coil I think) Sorry for crappy sound, recorded using my iphone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ0oM5xO1Pc

xxxtreme22r

Thx drokliss, Mine does that same thing very little vacuum at idle from the advance tube, not enough to even enough to stall the engine out when left open.

I still have not found a reliable source where it mentions 8 degrees BTDC with vac advance off though. Only thing I find for any 22r early or late is 0 degrees, with the exception of the autozone sight which I cannot go by since they say 8 degrees on the 87 motor which is wrong. Now if someone can show me the emission label on their early 22r under the hood that says 8 degrees......

If yours is running at 13 degees with that vac tube on and very little vac advance applied to it that's alot of advance IMO. but hey it's running.

80t0ylc

Yes, I assumed you'd see that in my sig line. But IIRC, it's a 32/36 DGEV. The truck is an '81, but the engine is a transplanted '85. The choke is different on the Weber and the air filter is slightly different - it has 4 clamps that hold the filter and top on to the carb & bottom air filter mounting plate. In watching your video, I see what you mean about the idle not being affected when you pull the vacuum line. Mine is not like that and I have 2 vac lines to the distributor. Both have good vacuum.



I picked up my '81 a couple of months ago and was lucky enough to get an original owner's manual with it. Those of us that have seen them know there's some good maintenance tidbits in them. One being how to check the timing. It specifically says 8* with the vac advance line disco'd. But, I have since downloaded a FSM and I need to verify that it's the same in there. It's at home, I'm at work, I'll check it out later.

xxxtreme22r

Just an FYI, that rear most vac port on the distributor does not get used with the weber. It's controlled by a vsv which is put out of operation IIRC when installing the weber. Applying vac to that port actually retards timing and is deactivated once the engine warms up.

80t0ylc

Thanks for the info! I checked my downloaded FSM and it agrees with your info. It's for 1st gen up to '85 which includes my engine. 0* for 22R w/ vac. adv. off and 12* BTDC with it hooked up (max. 950 rpm). 22R-E is 5* BTDC at idle (short terminal "T"). I got some fine tuning to do - Thanks!