az4x4runner

Does anyone have experience with them on a first or second gen runner? They sound like a good idea from what I read in this article.

However it talks about reinforcing the upper shocks mounts but does't really describe how. Has anyone here done it?

Thanks,
Bryan

deathrunner

I considered this early on, but hadn't heard enough success stories. I'll watch this thread.

mt_goat

I'm pretty happy with mine (pick-up with air shocks on front and rear), especially on the rear. The adjustability is great, heavy load just air them up a little.

Cross-linked, they do make a difference in articulation, but be careful what you ask for, I found the extra articulation a little too much and had tires rubbing until I added a body lift.

On-road the cross-linking sucks, so plan on adding a valve between the pairs so you can unlink them for daily driving. You might also find sometimes on the trail you want to unlink them, like extreme lean situations. I found a simple cheap valve for 1/4" water lines to ice makers works great for unlinking them. Here's a pic: http://community.webshots.com/photo/...0088321FKnjMy#

I have seen no problems with the strength of the Toyota shock mounts, I believe reinforcing them would be a waste of time, unless you are running the Baja 1000 or something.

jimbo74

its been covered here rather in depth actually do a search for them using my name in the made by user thing.. i started a pretty big thread on it before

jimbo74

found it https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/air-shocks-38993/

mt_goat

Oh yeah, I remember that one.

az4x4runner

Hmm, this is what made me think I should reinforce the front stock mounts:
You didn't experience this I assume?

How about some good anti-sway bars with disconnects for the road?

I don't know if I'll be doing this project right away, mainly gathering info for now (limited funds ).

Thanks guys
Bryan

mt_goat

Nope, I've never seen any deflection in the shock mounts even going from 0 to 110 psi. I usually run about 40 psi in the front and 50 psi in the rear if the bed is empty or around 90-100 psi in the rear if I'm loaded down with a bunch of gear. You will hear the springs creeking as the air shocks are aired up and they start taking some of the load away the springs and that could be mistaken for the shock mount deflecting.

deathrunner

I have not done this mod, but it makes sense to me to reinforce the shock mounts. First off, why the heck not? It won't hurt anything to do it.

When coilovers are installed on an ifs rig, they do not use the stock mounts. Granted the length is a big issue, but even if it weren't, those mounts are only designed for some dampening weight. They are not designed to hold the weight of the vehichle. As you know, the more air you put in the shock, the more vehicle weight the shocks are holding. The shock mounts are holding the shocks, therefore, the shockmounts will be holding the weight of the vehicle. Maybe you haven't experienced the deflection, but someone else has and it is definitely a possibiltity. Considering driving habits and the condition of the frame and rust, there are enough variables to consider reinforcing the mounts.

Definitely a cool setup.

mt_goat

Well reinforce them if you want to, but I haven't had any problems with the shock mounts after 2 years with them. Your vehicle may be different than mine though.

I have stressed them about as much as possible by wheeling steep trails loaded down so much with gear and luggage that my front bump stops were smacking all the way down the trail. I aired them up as high as I could get them with my on board air (110 psi) and unlinked them (which puts even more stress on each one) in an effort to stop the suspension from bottoming out, it helped but didn't stop it completely.

I think you guys are over-estimating the weight these shocks will carry. I don't think they are capable of taking the weight of the truck by themselves, and would bottom out before they did that. Which reminds me of one engineering class, I think it was mechanical design where Dr. Lowery said that auto engineers design shock mounts as if there were a solid bar in place of the shock, with no flex.

I haven't done any stress analysis or testing but my gut feeling is the weakest link would be the shock itself. If you look closely at the weld surface holding the hoops on the shock you may see what I'm talking about. These air shocks are pretty cheaply made.

I see what you are saying about someone with rusted out shock mounts though; in that case anything could happen. There is an old 4runner near me that came from the rust belt somewhere. I was checking it one day with the owner and I could not believe the amount of rust on that thing, LOL. I even mentioned to him I wasn't sure if the structural integrity of the front end was safe to drive, it was so rusted out.

mt_goat

Let's stop right there and think about that. That is a totally different mod. In that case the coilovers are the only support for the total weight of the vehicle, at least until you hit your bump stops, and then the truck would be supported by them too.

In the case of adding air shocks we are talking about supplementing the existing suspension, i.e. torsion bars are still in place, leaf springs are still in place. The existing suspension is still taking the majority of the load. You could never use these air shocks as a coilover or a replacement for the existing suspension. They are only little helpers.

Also keep in mind that a broken shock mount is not a catastrophic event. You could take all the shocks off your vehicle and although it may be a little bouncy, you could still make it home ok.

deathrunner

I guess I was over-estimating the weight the shocks took.

You'll have to post some flex shots, I'm curious what can be achieved with this setup. My stock setup was hardly impressive. I have a friend buying a stock first gen and maybe I'll talk them into this mod.

mt_goat

I can't get nearly as good a flex as the truck in your avatar, I've tried to get some flex shots but they aren't that impressive. Part of that is the limit straps I have, they are well... very limiting. I also have not cut down my bump stops, in case you haven't figured it out, I don't like to over extend my CVs.

deathrunner

Over extending cv's is bad, but why limit straps??? Did you get rid of your upper bumpstops?

Not that I thought you were implying it, but, I'm not even close to over extending my cv's in my avatar. I had 200 psi of nitrogen in my shocks back then. I have since rebuilt them and put only 150 psi in, it seems to flex even easier now.

Even wihout pics, you did notice more flex, or at least easier flex with the air shocks, right?

mt_goat

Yeah the limit straps are because I no longer have the stock upper bump-stops, or the stock upper control arms for that matter. Here are some pics of that: http://community.webshots.com/photo/...5273828UOQIhX#
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...55273885ewPWbA

Yes, I definely noticed more flex and the problems that come with it, like more tire rubbing. But now with a 1 " body lift I don't rub anymore.

deathrunner

What happened to your stock upper control arms?
And what's that thing above the UCA in the photo?

Oh yeah cool setup, by the way.
4 inch lift, bj spacer, and air shocks, that's gotta flex pretty decently.

mt_goat

They were replaced when the Superlift kit was installed. Superlift once made a kit that replaced the UCAs. The link above the UCA connects the UCA to the torsion bar. I redesigned original Superlift link to what you see there.

The set-up does flex good compared to other torsion-bar IFS set-ups, with-in the limits I have set for it, which I admit is rather conservatively constrained. I would like to get a little longer limit straps and I could cut the bump stops down a little also and still be fairly safe.

elripster

That was me that did the air shocks up front first. You don't need to re-inforce the mounts. I did has a precautioin but many have used them with no issues and no extra re-inforcement.

Frank

mt_goat

My lack of articulation hasn't really been what's stopped me on the trails I go on. Here is the last place I got stuck: http://community.webshots.com/photo/...82563708cTHDIP

What stopped me wasn't lack of traction, it was lack of power. That spot of the trail was about 12,000 feet elevation and my stock 3.0 just didn't have the power to pull the rig up. Notice there is one front wheel way in the air but since the front diff was locked it wasn't spinning... none of the tires were spinning. I could have had no limit straps at all and it wouldn't have made any difference in getting up that hill.

mt_goat

Yeah, Frank was the pioneer of this set-up. BTW, Frank are you still running air shocks?