Old83@pincher

Apparently this is quite the problem on theses trucks, and now at 500000 KMs my drivers side is leaking again (3x) passenger side never (it was bought new so no accident damage).Dealer did both sides about 50000KM ago. I've read most of the posts on this and just want to know if there are any tips or tricks to replacing them not previously posted. Now that I am retired I'll be doing it right myself! I plan on getting a used axle shaft and assembling it as a unit and just swapping it all out one afternoon then doing the same on the passenger side (maybe). Yes I know its different backing plates. Got pics and FSM for reference.

aowRS

I purchased my 4Runner new and have personally replaced my axle seals 5 or 6 times over the years (more on the passenger side). I've gone to great lengths to ensure clearances, measurements, etc. were spot on. Despite my attention to detail (and using DrCoffee's method), the passenger side is leaking again.
I'm now at 362,000 miles and wouldn't sell the truck if someone offered me $10,000. I love it. But this seal design is utterly piss poor. Thankfully I do all of my own maintenance, or else this issue would actually piss me off.




Andreas

Old83@pincher

So just to pass along another point to look out for is what I found. It seems the previous "repair persons" (I am keeping comments about them civil but didn't go as far as to call them mechanics) didn't understand the importance of cleaning the surfaces between the axle and backing plate well enough...especially removing burrs and one of them though RTV was the answer. I believe the burrs slightly keep the retainer ring from seating far enough into the seal, and coupled with the small contact area to start with, then causes the leak. Guess they just got lucky on the passenger side! It also looks like the nobs who did it pressed every thing tight to the snap ring, at a glance it doesnt look like the seal was even on the retainer. This along with pressing the inner retainer on backwards will probably fix this for good. Crossing my fingers!I may look into using a non automotive seal and use one that is 10mm wide rather than the 9mm factory one. Going to do a lot of measuring and see.

If you want to save some cash the bearing is a 6308 2RS...get it from a bearing house...SKF if possible.

aowRS

As I mentioned in my earlier response, I went to great lengths to ensure that all of my measurements were correct, and that the seal lip would land in the middle of the ring. Despite all of this, my last seal exchange only stayed dry for 10,000 miles or so.

Perhaps the stock seal is simply too flimsy, both in size as well as in how tight it fits to the ring. For a while I've considered taking an unused ring to a machine shop and having copies made that are a hair larger in diameter and quite a bit wider.

Axle seals of this sort have been in use since what, the first Ice Age? And somehow Toyota missed the boat on this one.




Andreas

Charchee

I just did mine on my 02 4Runner a couple months ago. I really didn't think the outer oil seal was tight enough. I asked the geniuses at my local Toyota shop to sell me everything that I would put my hands on during the repair. Since I'm never in range of a dealership after hours or on the weekends I thought this was the best course of action for my first try at this. I got everything but the outer o-ring between the tube and the outer hub. I was already 9/10 through the repair when I got the call that my o-ring didn't come in that Friday so I went with the RTV. Say what you want but if you choose the right product and prep it correctly, Permatex sealants work really well. I manage a fleet of heavy equipment and semi trucks and I usually have better luck with it than I do gaskets but I always go to great lengths to use it correctly. Anyway, I used the product we use at work, specifically designed for axle oil and it is holding just fine.

On the outer oil seal, I have always been big on using OEM parts on whatever I'm working on. I did use Toyota parts here but after feeling the axle go through the seal and reading all of these threads about having to go back and reseal over and over again, I believe I will pull out my Spicer catalog the next time around. I have a rule at work that we never install the same seal three times. If it doesn't work twice, which seems to be the case with these trucks, I pick me out a different seal that I like better. The seal seems to fit the tube correctly but I'm just not crazy about the inner diameter spec or the thickness of the sealing edge. If I have to do it again, I'm going to buy the most expensive, name brand, industrial grade seal I can find with a 1mm smaller sealing diameter and try it. I didn't put a caliper the axle shaft but it isn't going to be some off the wall diameter. There will be a hundred different seal options for this application if you know where to look.

aowRS

I would love to hear if you come up with an alternate seal!



Andreas

Charchee

I will be sure to start a thread on it as soon as my back tires start to slide at stop signs again.

Old83@pincher

Sorry its been a bit...I agree 100% that seal is the saddest excuse for one I have ever seen, and I've replaced a lot of them in 35 years or so of being an Industrial mechanic. Toyota really dropped the ball on this..sort of the quality you'd expect from a Chrysler Pity Van!...O/K not that bad! If you look at the front and/or rear crank seals as an example, you can see they are far better seals, but this thing just left me scratching my head on what they were thinking. I used the factory one just cause I had it (and paid a bundle for it...cheap Scottish heritage!) but if it ever even drips a drop I'll be using a far better seal from an industrial supplier. CR (Chicago Rawhide) makes a plethora of seals which would fit and are far better. Unfortunately I didn't get a number or measure it up before installing it.

RTV...good stuff when used right but not a band-aid for slip shod assembly.

As far as saving more $$$...NOTE, prices are given in Canadian retail counter sales prices which is at least 25% to 75% more than US
- Bearing; got it from a bearing supplier, $32 Canadian and its SKF (That would probably be about $22 for you US folks!)
-O ring: Free from the same place. Worth about $.50 CDN if I had to pay for it
-Retainers: The guy there called them "bearing collars", if I got them there they would have been $6 each CDN rather then $32 at the dealer
-Inner Seal: No real price but I guess about $10 CDN rather then the $36 at the dealer

So, I hear some of you now, "they're not as good as Genuine Toyota parts". All these parts are common generic parts, for example if Toyota used SKF bearings, SKF would not make 'special' bearings just for Toyota. They'd make millions of them and some would go into Toyota Axles, others into electric motors, some into pumps etc. They are quality parts. I remember seeing SKF on the bearing covers on the Hot-metal railcars at a steel mill and with a full charge of motel steel are about 350-400 tons, so they should be good enough for a Tacoma! Yes some of the off brand parts such as brake pads/shoes are garbage compared to the Toyota parts.

Charchee

Old83 is right about 99% of OEM bearings and seals being generic but branded OEM. For instance, Caterpillar's bearings are made by Timken. They are held to a little higher standard of quality control but they are still the same bearings you buy at the parts house. I know Cat would sample all of the supplied bearings and if one in 10,000 had a defect, the would reject the entire batch. Timken would only scrap one of their branded bearings if there was one in 1,000. Those numbers are not exact but you get the point.

Ok, so I happen to have a new Toyota axle seal here to examine. There are some tiny numbers stamped into the inside of it. If I put my goggles on I can read the following: NOK AH2853G 22.
The outer diameter is 70.10mm. The inner diameter around the rubber lip is just about 70mm, and the inner diameter of the metal ring where it first contacts the rubber is 56mm. The inner diameter of the metal ring including the rubber portion as seen from the outside is 53.50mm. These measurements were taken with a $20 digital caliper so don't rely solely on my measurements and without my seal catalog in front of me I was not exactly sure where the measurements should have been taken. I may be able to use that number to cross it over. If I have any luck, I'll post what I find.

aowRS

^ looking forward to a viable alternative.



Andreas

btu44

I replaced my axle seals and rear brakes plenty of times on my 89 Toyota P/U
Here was my fix. I believe it was sealing the bearing retainer that did the trick.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...r-axle-292614/

leaver_red_jr

This was my solution:

I installed an arbor shim (McMaster-Carr # 3088A478) in front of the seal (between seal and differential) so that the lip of the seal would ride on the correct part of the retainer. This method does not require removal and reinstallation of the retainer. I have had no leaks since (20k miles).

The shims I used are 0.062" (1.57mm) thick, 2.75" OD, and 2.00" ID. Other thicknesses are available.

Malcolm99

I had to relocate the seal slightly within its housing, I also extended my breather, and on my dads taco 11' and my brothers Tundra 08' every 3 months the breather gets clogged up creating unnecessary pressure build up.