JimiJams

Hey guys, I'm in the middle of changing my timing belt, and all the other crap in there while I have access. Getting the cam seals out has been the biggest pain of this whole project. Without a puller tool, I had to resort to the drill and screw method

Unfortunately, while drilling I nicked one of the camshafts. It's a very minor nick, and the seal will sit right on top of it. In other words, the nick is not at the front or rear edges of the seal, so I can't imagine it's a cause for concern. In fact, when I think about it, it doesn't seem like a scratch should be a cause for concern unless it runs from one edge of the seal to the other creating a canal for the oil to leak through, but what do I know. I won't sleep easy, though, until I know there's some hope that it might be alright.

What do you guys think? Should I run it briefly while the timing cover's off (without coolant) to check for a leak? If I don't do that and throw everything back together, is there a way to know if it's leaking? I'd imagine it'd leak slowly so I'm afraid it won't even be noticeable.

aowRS

Pic?


Andreas

JimiJams

unfortunately no pics. I tried today but my phone couldn't capture it very well. It's a very small nick and it's actually not completely covered by the seal, it's right by the front edge of the seal and can be partially seen with the seal in.

It's a very small nick, and this timing belt has been a bitch, and it's still not over so I hope I didn't open up a whole new can of worms here.

Is there any quick fix for it, like some type of filler?

rworegon

How deep is it?

chadsy

you could try jb weld but I don't think it would hold up long-term

JimiJams

The nick is probably anywhere from 1/64 to 1/32 of an inch deep, and about 1/16 inch in diameter.

I've read elsewhere that jb weld doesn't hold up.

Also, in the midst of changing the cam seals the camshafts moved a bit. So, I had to eye the camshafts up and then put on the new belt. After putting the belt on, I rotated the crank a few times to get the marks on the belt back in the same position and the cam marks were off by a tooth.

To complicate things more, there's paint marks on the all three sprockets. I'm assuming I should disregard these and just pay attention to the factory marks? I just don't know why the marks are there if the belt's never been changed before.

rworegon

This is a 3.4l engine?

Use the factory marks for TDC.

j2the-e

Make the scratch as smooth as possible with a file and some fine and then very fine sandpaper. Don't sand or file anything but the scratch please.
Then put it all back together with the upper cover off and run it for a while and check for leaks. Unless there is a catastrophic failure, you won't be able to run it long enough without coolant. So go ahead and put the hose on and add coolant before you run it.
As far as the timing marks, did you use a factory belt? They have very convenient lines on them that line up with the marks on the gears. They are idiot-resistant

JimiJams

Yes, it's for a 3.4l. The marks confuse me because they must have been painted on at the factory and like I said, this is the first time this belt's been changed. Were they painted on for some other purpose ya think?

Regardless all sprockets were aligned and the marks on the belt were lined up where they should have been, but after a few rotations they were off. So when I put the cam sprockets back on and readjusted them to match the lines I may not have lined them up by the smallest bit, enough to allow the belt to move one tooth in advance...???

rworegon

My '95 had marks painted on the cams and crank from the factory. However, use the marks on the cam and crank to their TDC marks.

What is important is that the marks on the cams and crank line up to their TDC marks after 2 revolutions with the new belt installed.....it will be many revolutions before the painted lines on the belt line back up. This is normal.

The link in post 1 here may help.

JimiJams

j2the-e,

All the lines on the belt matched up, the trouble is when I reinstalled the cam sprockets one camshaft turned independent of the other cam and crank. So I had to realign the cam by eye. Now I think the cams and crank are out of sync just enough to cause the belt to advance. Who knows how long I'll have to keep adjusting the sprockets so the belt doesn't advance anymore.

Running the engine with top cover off would mean I'd have to mess with that coolant hose right there. Having to take it off and put it on again might create a mess but I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong there.

JimiJams

rworegon,

if that's the case then that's awesome. All the marks are lining up where they should, I just figured those marks on the belt should match up with the ones on the cams and crank because the first couple times I rotated to TDC the marks were way off and by like the third time getting to TDC I knew the marks would be back in that area but they were advanced one tooth from the marks on the cams.

So you're sure that's alright and everything's cool?

j2the-e

As Mr. Oregon pointed out, the marks on the belt are only for initial installation. You're afraid to make a mess by pulling the upper hose? You can drain the radiator by about a gallon before you pull the hose. Then there won't be a mess.

JimiJams

j2the-e,

Looking at that upper hose today, it looks like it slopes down towards the engine, so I guess I could just drain the engine block. I just don't want to lose much coolant because I bought some expensive subaru coolant. I could also just fill it up with some distilled water first, then drain it and fill it up with coolant after I check the seals.

rworegon

No need to drain the block. Just get a suitable container, open the drain valve on the bottom of the radiator and drain until the collant lever in the radiator drops below the upper hose.

chadsy

yes the marks on the belt line up only every 70 or so rotations.

JimiJams

Alright, I just fired it up and ran it for like 4 or 5 minutes and there's no oil leaking through at all.

Couple questions, is 4 or 5 minutes long enough to tell? I would think so but I really don't know. And also, if I should run it longer than 4 or 5 minutes, is it safe to do this without the fan? I've got coolant in, obviously, but I don't have any of the new acc belts on to drive the fan.

Thanks to everyone so far for helping me through this, it was much less of a bitch with all your help!

j2the-e

If it was me, I'd run it for 1/2 hour. It might get hot without the fan so keep an eye on it. Turn the heater on high and it "should" be fine. But again, watch the temp closely.

JimiJams

Alright j,

I ran it for 1/2 hour and both seals are still bone dry. Now I'm wondering if running it at higher rpms might cause it to leak. The temperature was fine, it was where it usually is. Think I'll go run it at about 2k for 5 minutes and see what happens. If it's good after that, then I can safely say I dodged a nasty bullet here.

JimiJams

After that, still no leaks. I think I can throw everything back together and be satisfied it'll be fine. Thanks a ton to you, j2the-e, your help has been invaluable! Glad to be done with this, and happy to know that next time It'll go so much smoother, especially if I've got a cam/crank seal puller, which no auto parts stores seem to carry