LV_4Runner

Ok! here is my old problem ever since I got my 97 4runner 4WD SR5 (brand new)

< My brake problem history>
1. When it hit 20000 miles, the steering wheel started shaking whenever applying brake. 2. Thus, I went to local Toyota dealer to resurface the front rotors. (they charged me even though it was still under 3years 36000 miles warranty).

3. It went good only until it hit 30000 miles. The Shaky steering wheel came back.
4. Thus, I replaced Front brakes with "Raybestos" PG pluts Rotors and Pads. Please correct me if I picked up really wrong brand name...^^:

4. It was NOT bad until it hit about 55000 miles. Now my 4runner has 78000 miles. The steering wheel is shaking really bad whenever I hit the brake pedal.

< questions>
Thus, now once again I am about to buy Raybestos Front rotors and pads and also Rear pads. Then, I will do replace everything during this week.

1. Does everyone have the similar problems with mine?
2. Am I picking up wrong brand? If so, which brand is good? where I can find locally?
3. Am I doing the right things? What else should I do to correct this problem?

Any kind of advice is truely appreciated. Thank you in advance.

NerfHerder-97SR5-

No Vibration problems yet in mine

Corey

iTrader: (1)

Hello LV. I have heard it is by far better to not resurface the Toyota rotors and to get new ones.
You can usually get a good deal on them when you buy a few at a time from the online Toy dealerships that offer 'Net discounts.

Check out our Vendor section on the forums main page and scroll down near the bottom of it and you will see a few online Toy dealerships.

Gadget who has done an incredible amount of 3rd gen research has some pretty good articles on his home page.

Check under his brakes section. He was using slotted rotors for awhile but found they warped to easily.
He has since then switched back to the OEM Toy rotors.
Read his whole brake article as it's very enlightening.

HaveBlue

I, too, have the vibration problem. Though, mine is only apparent at highway speeds. I have a set of Brembo cross drilled rotors and a set of Performance Friction pads (same as TRD), I still have to put them on. Haven't had time. When I do, I will let everyone know how they are.

scott

I owned a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 for a while, and while on the tech list people always complained about warping rotors, especially those doing track events. The Mitsubishi was a chronic rotor-warper do mostly to it's enormous weight (4000 lbs. GVW).

The guys on that list solved most of the warpage problems by getting cryogenically treated rotors. I know, I know.. it sounds like a bunch of crap and I've never used them, but 100% of the guys who did track events swore by the treated rotors and said it solved their warpage issues.

I assume that the 4Runner has the same issues with warpage do to the weight of the vehicle (more weight, more heat when braking), so it might fix the problem. Hell, mine are warped too, maybe I'll try them and let you know.

Yoda

What are your driving habbits? High speeds/fast stops? Do you drive with both feet (some people drive with left toe on brake pedal...guarantees hot brakes/warped rotors). Pull any trailers? Is yours the V6 or 4? The V6 has bigger brakes/vented rotors (at least on the earlier trucks)

I like the NAPA "application engineered" series brake pads.

Also, I checked www.alldata.com went to the TSB and recalls page. There is a TSB dealing with brake vibration:
BR007-00 DEC 00 Brakes (Front) - Vibration

Again, this does not seem to be a recall, just a heads up to the mechanic on how to fix. Maybe someone can print the bulletin out. At alldata you can only veiw the titles unless you buy a "one vehicle" subscription.

David

Paul S

You might need to adjust your rear brakes up. New cars are lighter and the brakes are lighter in the front. If the rear brakes are not adjusted up properly the front will do all the stoping and warp out. It has alot of factors like you say, pulling a trailer, heavy foot, riding brakes, heavy traffic,auto or manual,etc.

You want to have the rear jacked up so you can spin both tires in the air, a jack stand under the axle on both sides. You don't need to take the tires off unless you want to see the adjuster or check your breaks. On the back side there is a rubber plug, pop it off with a flat screw driver. Inside you can see what looks like a gear, it is kind of hard to see if you have the wheel off you can see it between the shoes. You turn it with a screw driver from the back side so it clicks, not to fast as you want to spin the tire or drum at the same time. When you feel the drum or tire spin a little harder its working. You want it so its dragging a little bit, not enough is better than too much. DON"T ADJUST THEM TO TIGHT!! You will smoke your rear brakes. Don't adjust your ebrake before you do this as it will be a little tighter too.


Good luck, this is how I keep my rotors from warping. For some reson the rear brakes don't really adjust them selves.


If you don't want to attempt this a local shop should be able to do it for you.

toyota_mdt_tech

LV, you have a small amount of run out on the rotors when they are turned on a lathe, now add the runout on the hub, you have even more, this is called stacked tolerances, max allowable is only about .004' (hair measures .002', red is about .0025"):eek: and about the only way to eliminate paulsation for the longest time is to have them machined on the vehicle, we use a "Procut 9000" lathe that cuts on the vehicle, this means abbsolutely zero runout. Now anything you can do do keep the rotors from warming up will help to reduce this, like lower gear down long grades, softer braking on off ramps etc. Brake pulsations isnt unheard of, been around as long as brakes, and will always be around, about all you can do is to find ways to keep it from showing its ugly mug as often.

NerfHerder-97SR5-

...tech..please frequent this board more often! Maybe we can consult you before we bring our trucks in for services and make sure our symptoms arent being mis - diagnosed in order to let our mechanincs rack up a higher for us, either that or we can just drool, point, and mumble "he's smaaaaart" when you make posts like the previous one.

williemon

Check out some pics of some mods to the brake dust sheild on my 90 runner on my webshots page. Look in the sig. line for the link. I have a 2nd Gen. but some of this may "bleed" over to a 3rd Gen. too. I had tried everything. I bought it used so what was done before me, I cant say. I had the orig. rotors turned once and used raybestos lifetime organic pads. They warped about 3 months later. Then I put on new raybestos rotors and swapped the pads for new ones. I got about 5 months out of them. Had them turned. Got 3 months out of them. By this time I was seeing red. I read where someone was using the factory rotors and factory pads and just being carefull and was having good results. I got Toyota rotors, and toyota std.(not TRD) carbon metalic pads. I put it all together using a torque wrench and tightening all rotor bolts down in a star pattern and taking 3 rounds to get up to proper torque. I then modified the air duct on the dust sheild and put everything back together. Did a short bed in procedure and have been warp free ever since. That has been almost 4 years and 2 sets of toyota pads ago. I always torque my wheels in a star sequence to 90 ft/lbs when I pull them, and I do a retorque as soon as possible after a shop has worked on them which happens very seldom. Maybe twice so far. Maybe some of this will help out with your troubles.

Paul S

Again, are any of you adjusting up the rear brakes? If the front does more than it's share of stopping even new rotors are going to warp. The front does most of the stoping as it is. Look at your rear brakes, do they still look new after changing the front twice or three times. They are out of adjustment. I do agree with the on the car barke lathe, but if the rear's aren't tight it's going to warp again.

Toyota brake pads and rotors are also a good idea. I just replaced my calipers and pads at 112000 miles on my 4x4 truck. I turned the rotors on the truck after I repacked the bearings. I always adjust or check the adjustment on my rear brakes when I rotate the tires. I have never had my rotors warp and they are still factory.

Hbum

Paul S,
Do you use your handbrake regularly? Operating the handbrake should adjust the rear brakes. I try to use mine every time I stop. There is a procedure in the shop manual for checking operation. Basically you pull the drum and move the parking brake lever with your hand. It should move the adjusting star wheel.

Paul S

Yes I have about this. I belive it doesn't work. Once you adjust the rears you will also see how much tighter the e-brake is to pull out. My wife and I use our e-brakes all the time. If you adjust them like I said in my other post it will work, just don't over adjust it to tight.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I am just trying to tell what I have done and it has worked.

nrgetic99

My 96 had major brake probs that culminated in Toyota replacing the entire rear axle, hub to hub and giving me a 100,000 mile warranty.

What is interesting here is that I went through 4 sets of front rotors before I worked out it was the rear brakes not working that led to the front brakes over working.

I drive a lot of hilly roads and on several occasions, I lost 90% of my braking followed by badly warped rotors. Finally one day I smelt gear lube by my rear drums. Pulled them and discovered leaky rear axle seals.

12 months and a threat of legal action later, I got a new axle as the original one just would not seal whatever they did.

Anyway, the pattern was the same, slow leak onto rear drums, reducing or eliminating rear brakes, gradual overworking of rotors, leading to excessive heat and warping. No amount of machining on the truck could fix that (and they tried) Got so bad one day, I nearly lost my truck and boat down a ramp when I was could not hold the truck on the brakes and it kept rolling backwards !!!

I am with Paul S, check rear drums first...

David

LV_4Runner

Ok!

Following all you guys advice, now I put the pad (Performance friction: PFC-carbon metalic at Autozone) and OEM rotors as "Gadget" suggested. And then I tried to adjust Rear Brake. Then, following is the status,

1. NEW Front Pads and OEM rotors => This is GOOD! the brake feels fresher and response is quicker. BUT NOT as much as I expected => maybe rear brake is still NOT working very well?

2. I tried to adjust Rear Brake by clicking the adjuster through the hole in the back of drum brake. I tried to click the adjuster until I feel the very firm dragging on both rear wheels.

While I am doing this rear brake adjusting, I let my friend to push the brake pedal to check the front and rear brakes overally. Then, I found that the rear brake is NOT acting as it should be. meaning, while my friend was pushing brake pedal, I tried to spin the front wheel, Yeop! It is NOT moving at all. But I also tried to spin the rear wheels. Oh man! the rear wheel can be spinned even while my friend was pushing brake pedal! I immediately, open the rear drums and check again to see if it is NOT really working. What I found was, the movement of rear shoes are really small. Now, my question is,

1. Is this NORMAL? Or is rear drum brake cylinder is rusted or what? Does this mean everytime when we apply brake, Front acts first then, if we push harder, then rear works?

2. I tried to adjust the rear brake also by clicking hand brake several times. Yes, it seems working too. But we can do this only for "Rear left" side. Right? we can NOT brake "Rear right" by using hand brake? Thus, I believe anyway we need to adjust rear brake by clicking the adjuster through the hole in the back of drum brakes.

PS:
By the way, anyhow, I also flushed the brake fluid using "Mityvac Vacuum Hand pump". I just bought this one because I can just quickly buy this locally. Man! this is NOT working as it is advertised. Anyway, finally, I had to do the two man bleeding with wooden block. I just feel like I wasted $30 on this hand vacuum pump. I wish I can refund this one but well, anyway I used it, and it is messed up with all the dirty brake fluid. So, if anyone is looking for purchasing this kind of tool, it is better to plan ahead and pay a little more ($45+shipping) and get the power bleeder as "Gadget" suggested in his web site. Man, this hand vacuum thing is messy.... At least, I can say "the vacuum" method is NOT the way to go...

toyota_mdt_tech

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LV_4Runner




1. Is this NORMAL? Or is rear drum brake cylinder is rusted or what? Does this mean everytime when we apply brake, Front acts first then, if we push harder, then rear works?


Well, the rig has what is called an LSPV or a load sensing proportining valve, I'll bet you had the rear wheels off the ground, but did you jack it up by the frame or the center
rear diff? As the diff hands, braking to the rear is greatly reduced. Some folks li

t these also without taking into consideration, the LSPV

2. I tried to adjust the rear brake also by clicking hand brake several times. Yes, it seems working too. But we can do this only for "Rear left" side. Right? we can NOT brake "Rear right" by using hand brake? Thus, I believe anyway we need to adjust rear brake by clicking the adjuster through the hole in the back of drum brakes.


Well, you may have a frozen start wheel, technically, just applying the hand brake is what keeps these set up, but auto trannied units, many times, they wont use the brake, just reply on the park pawl, rapidly applying and releasing the hand brake will set these up, you'll feel the amount of lever being reduced as it sets up, if it doesnt change, it may be seized.



PS:
By the way, anyhow, I also flushed the brake fluid using "Mityvac Vacuum Hand pump". I just bought this one because I can just quickly buy this locally. Man! this is NOT working as it is advertised. Anyway, finally, I had to do the two man bleeding with wooden block. I just feel like I wasted $30 on this hand vacuum pump.

Well, you may be having trouble because of the LSPV valve again, try unbolting the rod from the rear diff and just use a bungee, hold it upward, after the bleeding, hook it back up.

LV_4Runner

First of all, thank you all for all of your message and advice. Man I feel I do too much owe you guys.


Tech, Ok LSPV! That I haven't taken into consideration. Thus, it has a lot things to do with rear brakes and even bleeding(?).

I will think everything over again.

By the way, I jacked up it by frame.... Does it cause something?

Thank you again.