Engine Mods??

Mr. Bob · 12-27-2005, 12:37 AM

Hello again!!

As previously posted I will be picking up a 1997 ( will know tomorrow ) limited, fully loaded with a 5 speed...

I have been reading through all the posts I could on engine mods... I am still left with a few questions...

TRD S/C... Does the kit come with everything you need?? I have lots of experience with SB ford mods... and when you do a SC, you need larger flow injectors and all kinds of cool other things... so this leads me to ask about this kit... I see LOTS of guys running it... so it must be a good kit a assume... see you need colder plugs... how bad does it kill millage?? and do you need permium fuel??

Headers... I think I will have to do them... I see this will not be the most power gainer... but one of my best friends has a 88 runner 3L and he has been talking about headers for the longest time... we even had the perfect chance when we put an engine in it 8 months back.... but it has not happened yet... anyhow... back on topic... what brand are you all running?? I see there are 4 options... only have expeience with TRD and JBA headers...

Cams... see a cool post about 5VZ cams.... and a local guy to me too... wonder if this will be a good option for me??

exhaust... am thinking 40 series flowmaster... probably SIDO....

What else... the 5VZ build is the first one I have done.... I just completed healping a friend do a FI swap in a 84 PU... but thats about the most complex toy thing I have done.... Once the runner is happy, next ( 2007 ) years project will be the MR2... hehehehehe...

again... I thank you all for the help you will provide... this site rocks....!!!

cheers
Bob

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Weasy2k · 12-27-2005, 01:19 AM

Congrats on picking up a new 4runner...(maybe!)
Here is a brief respose

TRD S/C
The kit comes with everything you need to get it going, but it is not recommended to run it on stock injectors as toyota wasnt really thinking about (till after wards) fueling. So the s/c will run your injectors to 100% Duty cycle which is not recommended at all! People you see running around with it will have problems in the future once one of those injectors deicde to conk out on you

I have install and tested several tacomas and there is a huge difference (dynoed one 01 at 207 at wheels before fueling and then 237 after wards).
Yes you need to run 94 octane but if you get a fuel kit you can use the piggyback computer to detune the truck so you can squeeze passed with 91.
You also dont have to worry about aircare i passed easily with my taco as well.
I get about 300-400km a tank running on 10psi (stock is 7psi) on the highway i push as high as 450-500km a tank

There are kits out there from URDUSA that have the rest of the stuff needed as well, I will also be looking at releasing a kit in the future similar to what my 96 Tacoma has done to it. TRD also sells a 7th injector kit but that is way overpriced and doesnt work so well.

Headers doesnt give you a HUGE gain definatly not the best bang for buck, but if you supercharge your truck then DEFINATLY yes it will help breathing, altho you dont HAVE to (i didnt...yet) but there is more to gain if you do.

Cams...well...local? lol i just read where your from! Yea man you can see first hand the effects of a supercharger and cams if you want!

Exhaust would go well with the headers

SOUND amazing to

As far as options...there will be many in the future for the 5vz as I continue to research and develop more products for the engine. Node on this board is also about to release his turbo manifold which i will be using on my tacoma as well to play around with so that is another option soon to be released as well as the soon to be released URD turbo kit but i dont know much about it.

Let me know if you have any questions...its great to see another local guy here...and you should come by to check out the 5vz MR2 im building here

***midiwall*** · 12-27-2005, 06:33 AM

Search Bob, there's a LOT of info on the forum about the S/C, injectors, headers....

One of the things that searching will pop-up is a rcommendation to head to "Gadgets Site". He's the place that we send everyone to for background on dropping a S/C on these motors. He's also the owner/operator of URD USA which can set you up with injectors, fuel pump, full S/C kits, and other aftermarket performance toys.

In short...

The TRD S/C kit is complete. Figure about 4 hours for the first time installer - under 2 hours for the experienced.

YES you will need to get more fuel into the engine *AND* you will need to be able to retard the timing. There are basically three ways to do it, 1) TRD's 7th injector, 2) larger injectors and a FTC controller, 3) larger injectors and an SMT controller. In all cases, you will also need to swap in a larger fuel pump.

I've heard mixed things about running agressive cams on this engine, in fact, Johnny's statement above is the first positive thing I've heard about it.

Headers... Do NOT do it unless you're going to run a S/C. The cost simply doesn't match the HP gains for an N/A engine.

The good news... The "bolt-on performance champ" (i.e., no internal engine mods) here for the 3.4L is currently putting out more than 300HP at the wheels. That's "just" with an S/C, injectors, fuel pump, smaller pulley, headers, exhaust and a methanol misting system. I'm on track to match him this spring.

Welcome to the forum.

Mr. Bob · 12-27-2005, 10:43 AM

Thanks midiwall

I had searched, and did LOTS of reading... infact hours... but also lots of what I was reading was old... so I had a feel on a few tihngs... but I was also missing some really important pieces that I needed aswell...

thanks for the help!!!

Bob

***midiwall*** · 12-27-2005, 11:14 AM

Hey Bob...

Well, we're all here to help, but we like knowing that folks have done "the prelim reading" first before we dive in and cover the ground again.

The good thing is that people have been S/C'ing this engine for a while, and a lot of what's been learned in the first year(ish) of doing so is still true today. The only real new thing to throw a wrench into the Old School is that TRD showed up with the 7th injector system. That's got some plusses and minuses to it, just like all the other options.

Let us know what you're thinking and we can help work ya' through the options.

The biggest thing that we can tell you is to PLEASE not just slap the S/C on there and call it good. You're rolling the dice at trashing the engine if you do. People will come forward and say "I've been running that way for 80k miles and I'm fine!" but those folks are VERY few and far between.

Have fun!

Mr. Bob · 12-27-2005, 11:29 AM

Dont worry.... the thought of slapping the kit in there, closing the hood, and driving with mid grade gas because my tank was not low enough yet for permium is not my style....

Thats why Im asking these questions.... A lot of this 4runner stuff is new to me... so I figure is I read and ask... read and ask... then I cant go wrong....

***midiwall*** · 12-27-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Bob

read and ask... then I cant go wrong....

Sure you can! Just give us your Visa card and we'll order everything up and get it shipped to you!

(well, ALMOST everything shipped to _you_!)

Weasy2k · 12-27-2005, 12:04 PM

lol

Yep were here to help...the 5vz market is just starting to pick up speed now!
Gonna be an interesting 2006

TRDOLMAN · 12-31-2005, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Bob

Dont worry.... the thought of slapping the kit in there, closing the hood, and driving with mid grade gas because my tank was not low enough yet for permium is not my style....

Thats why Im asking these questions.... A lot of this 4runner stuff is new to me... so I figure is I read and ask... read and ask... then I cant go wrong....

Click on the mods link in my signature. I am very happy with this setup and the numbers speak for themselves. No internal mods at all. In fact the valve covers have never been off.

And Weasy2k----apparently you haven't run a properly setup 7th injector kit. It might surprise you----

Dave

Weasy2k · 12-31-2005, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRDOLMAN

Click on the mods link in my signature. I am very happy with this setup and the numbers speak for themselves. No internal mods at all. In fact the valve covers have never been off.

And Weasy2k----apparently you haven't run a properly setup 7th injector kit. It might surprise you----

Dave

Actully i have

I only speak from experience and not on thoughts

I like the iadea of 7th injector...but toyotas method aint hte best, what I did was get the URD control kit he has and that made it a whole lot better.

TRDOLMAN · 12-31-2005, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weasy2k

Actully i have

I only speak from experience and not on thoughts

I like the iadea of 7th injector...but toyotas method aint hte best, what I did was get the URD control kit he has and that made it a whole lot better.

Well, not to be an ass but:

1. If you are getting 224 RWHP out of your setup and I am getting 304 RWHP out of mine while running absolutely perfectly and getting 21+ MPG on the hwy, then why is my 7th injector setup inferior?

2. If you are getting 224 RWHP out of your setup and we just got 258 RWHP out of Noliwan's URD fuel kit setup, again, how did you improve on the URD fuel kit?

Don't take offense to this. I am just trying to understand how you have a "better and improved" system when your numbers don't show it.

This is no flame by any means----just trying to understand---

Dave

Weasy2k · 12-31-2005, 01:49 PM

yep i dont take offence its just a matter of prefrence....My setup has its flaws as explained

would be nice to actually see the full 9.5psi

I agree with you...7th injector is a good system I have worked with lots of cars that utlize a larger injector (smt6 on VW rabbit with CIS injection plus AIC)

Once again best bang for buck would be gadgets kit as its cheaper and better tunability that is all

I am working on a alternative to the trd option to help with peoples pocket book. Gadgets kit is a great deal hence the reason i am not going to make a full fuel upgrade kit like his.

Once again its mostly the price, i have nothing against the IDEA of 7th injector.

and by the way your truck rocks

What pulley are you using anyway? I see that its silver vs teh red on the urd site.

TRDOLMAN · 12-31-2005, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weasy2k

yep i dont take offence its just a matter of prefrence....My setup has its flaws as explained

would be nice to actually see the full 9.5psi

I agree with you...7th injector is a good system I have worked with lots of cars that utlize a larger injector (smt6 on VW rabbit with CIS injection plus AIC)

Once again best bang for buck would be gadgets kit as its cheaper and better tunability that is all

I am working on a alternative to the trd option to help with peoples pocket book. Gadgets kit is a great deal hence the reason i am not going to make a full fuel upgrade kit like his.

Once again its mostly the price, i have nothing against the IDEA of 7th injector.

and by the way your truck rocks

What pulley are you using anyway? I see that its silver vs teh red on the urd site.

The pulley in the pic is a URD 2.2". Gadget had a few silver pulleys made and I asked for one. All pulleys from URD are now red.

When you come up with a system for the TRD S/C that makes more HP than I'm making now, let me know. I would be interested. I don't think I am interested in your cams because I am very happy with the powerband I have now and never plan on pushing the engine past 5600 rpm. I am very interested in your cam dyno results however. Good luck with the project.

Weasy2k · 12-31-2005, 02:59 PM

I dont think my kit will make any more power just because that has to do with fuel (the debate above) and if you get enough fuel then there is no power gain/loss (to a certain extent)

You will make very similar amounts of power on gadgets kit...or a smt6 version...or a 7th injector.

You got lots of other supporting mods that help the power...
Once my cam swap happens im going to do a dyno with the same belt to keep thigns consistent then ill swap a new belt while strapped to the dyno and do a quick tune with new belt to see what changes this gives me.
The cams will help keep the torque above the 230 mark all the way to the stock redline of 5600 thats the goal so you get above 200 starting at 1000 tand not seeing below 200 until the fuel injectors shut off.

TRDOLMAN · 01-02-2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weasy2k

I dont think my kit will make any more power just because that has to do with fuel (the debate above) and if you get enough fuel then there is no power gain/loss (to a certain extent)

You will make very similar amounts of power on gadgets kit...or a smt6 version...or a 7th injector.

You got lots of other supporting mods that help the power...
Once my cam swap happens im going to do a dyno with the same belt to keep thigns consistent then ill swap a new belt while strapped to the dyno and do a quick tune with new belt to see what changes this gives me.
The cams will help keep the torque above the 230 mark all the way to the stock redline of 5600 thats the goal so you get above 200 starting at 1000 tand not seeing below 200 until the fuel injectors shut off.

If you look at my dyno sheet, it shows 275 torque at redline fuel cut.

Weasy2k · 01-02-2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRDOLMAN

If you look at my dyno sheet, it shows 275 torque at redline fuel cut.

Notice the nice drop in torque.... that is what im talking about

of course this is deisgned for the lower boost applications like 7psi stock as well...you got some good numbers too

12-27-2005, 01:19 AM	#2 (permalink)
Weasy2k Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 968	Congrats on picking up a new 4runner...(maybe!) Here is a brief respose TRD S/C The kit comes with everything you need to get it going, but it is not recommended to run it on stock injectors as toyota wasnt really thinking about (till after wards) fueling. So the s/c will run your injectors to 100% Duty cycle which is not recommended at all! People you see running around with it will have problems in the future once one of those injectors deicde to conk out on you I have install and tested several tacomas and there is a huge difference (dynoed one 01 at 207 at wheels before fueling and then 237 after wards). Yes you need to run 94 octane but if you get a fuel kit you can use the piggyback computer to detune the truck so you can squeeze passed with 91. You also dont have to worry about aircare i passed easily with my taco as well. I get about 300-400km a tank running on 10psi (stock is 7psi) on the highway i push as high as 450-500km a tank There are kits out there from URDUSA that have the rest of the stuff needed as well, I will also be looking at releasing a kit in the future similar to what my 96 Tacoma has done to it. TRD also sells a 7th injector kit but that is way overpriced and doesnt work so well. Headers doesnt give you a HUGE gain definatly not the best bang for buck, but if you supercharge your truck then DEFINATLY yes it will help breathing, altho you dont HAVE to (i didnt...yet) but there is more to gain if you do. Cams...well...local? lol i just read where your from! Yea man you can see first hand the effects of a supercharger and cams if you want! Exhaust would go well with the headers SOUND amazing to As far as options...there will be many in the future for the 5vz as I continue to research and develop more products for the engine. Node on this board is also about to release his turbo manifold which i will be using on my tacoma as well to play around with so that is another option soon to be released as well as the soon to be released URD turbo kit but i dont know much about it. Let me know if you have any questions...its great to see another local guy here...and you should come by to check out the 5vz MR2 im building here __________________ -Johnny --------------------------------- '96 Taco V6 4WD Auto with 262 S2S Cams New 5VZ-FE & 3VZ-E Cams available 5vz-fe Stock CR FI Pistons NOW available! www.sea2skytuning.com Plug and Play EMS! Perfect Power, Hydra EMS, Arias, Pauter, Manley Performance Dealer.... Last edited by Weasy2k; 12-27-2005 at 01:32 AM. Reason: Missed some things

12-27-2005, 06:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
*midiwall* Sponsoring Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattleish, WA Posts: 9,078	Search Bob, there's a LOT of info on the forum about the S/C, injectors, headers.... One of the things that searching will pop-up is a rcommendation to head to "Gadgets Site". He's the place that we send everyone to for background on dropping a S/C on these motors. He's also the owner/operator of URD USA which can set you up with injectors, fuel pump, full S/C kits, and other aftermarket performance toys. In short... The TRD S/C kit is complete. Figure about 4 hours for the first time installer - under 2 hours for the experienced. YES you will need to get more fuel into the engine AND you will need to be able to retard the timing. There are basically three ways to do it, 1) TRD's 7th injector, 2) larger injectors and a FTC controller, 3) larger injectors and an SMT controller. In all cases, you will also need to swap in a larger fuel pump. I've heard mixed things about running agressive cams on this engine, in fact, Johnny's statement above is the first positive thing I've heard about it. Headers... Do NOT do it unless you're going to run a S/C. The cost simply doesn't match the HP gains for an N/A engine. The good news... The "bolt-on performance champ" (i.e., no internal engine mods) here for the 3.4L is currently putting out more than 300HP at the wheels. That's "just" with an S/C, injectors, fuel pump, smaller pulley, headers, exhaust and a methanol misting system. I'm on track to match him this spring. Welcome to the forum. __________________ ~ Mark '96 4Runner Limited S/C MI - 370cc injectors, Air! horns, Airaid MIT, ATS A-arms, 285/75/R16 BFG MTs, Bored TB, Brembo slotted, Cobra 75 WXST, Deckplate, Downey headers, Hayden cooler, IPT valve body, Level 10 torque convertor, Meanstreak exhaust, OME/OME rears, On-board PC (XM, Nav, WiFi, etc), Port 'n Polish, Remote Start, SAW fronts, Hilux console, SMT-5, Stubb's sliders, Supra MAF, TJM-17, 2.0" pulley, Viair 450c, Walbro 190, Weasy2k cams

12-27-2005, 11:14 AM	#5 (permalink)
*midiwall* Sponsoring Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattleish, WA Posts: 9,078	Hey Bob... Well, we're all here to help, but we like knowing that folks have done "the prelim reading" first before we dive in and cover the ground again. The good thing is that people have been S/C'ing this engine for a while, and a lot of what's been learned in the first year(ish) of doing so is still true today. The only real new thing to throw a wrench into the Old School is that TRD showed up with the 7th injector system. That's got some plusses and minuses to it, just like all the other options. Let us know what you're thinking and we can help work ya' through the options. The biggest thing that we can tell you is to PLEASE not just slap the S/C on there and call it good. You're rolling the dice at trashing the engine if you do. People will come forward and say "I've been running that way for 80k miles and I'm fine!" but those folks are VERY few and far between. Have fun! __________________ ~ Mark '96 4Runner Limited S/C MI - 370cc injectors, Air! horns, Airaid MIT, ATS A-arms, 285/75/R16 BFG MTs, Bored TB, Brembo slotted, Cobra 75 WXST, Deckplate, Downey headers, Hayden cooler, IPT valve body, Level 10 torque convertor, Meanstreak exhaust, OME/OME rears, On-board PC (XM, Nav, WiFi, etc), Port 'n Polish, Remote Start, SAW fronts, Hilux console, SMT-5, Stubb's sliders, Supra MAF, TJM-17, 2.0" pulley, Viair 450c, Walbro 190, Weasy2k cams

12-27-2005, 12:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
Weasy2k Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 968	lol Yep were here to help...the 5vz market is just starting to pick up speed now! Gonna be an interesting 2006 __________________ -Johnny --------------------------------- '96 Taco V6 4WD Auto with 262 S2S Cams New 5VZ-FE & 3VZ-E Cams available 5vz-fe Stock CR FI Pistons NOW available! www.sea2skytuning.com Plug and Play EMS! Perfect Power, Hydra EMS, Arias, Pauter, Manley Performance Dealer....

12-31-2005, 01:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
Weasy2k Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 968	yep i dont take offence its just a matter of prefrence....My setup has its flaws as explained would be nice to actually see the full 9.5psi I agree with you...7th injector is a good system I have worked with lots of cars that utlize a larger injector (smt6 on VW rabbit with CIS injection plus AIC) Once again best bang for buck would be gadgets kit as its cheaper and better tunability that is all I am working on a alternative to the trd option to help with peoples pocket book. Gadgets kit is a great deal hence the reason i am not going to make a full fuel upgrade kit like his. Once again its mostly the price, i have nothing against the IDEA of 7th injector. and by the way your truck rocks What pulley are you using anyway? I see that its silver vs teh red on the urd site. __________________ -Johnny --------------------------------- '96 Taco V6 4WD Auto with 262 S2S Cams New 5VZ-FE & 3VZ-E Cams available 5vz-fe Stock CR FI Pistons NOW available! www.sea2skytuning.com Plug and Play EMS! Perfect Power, Hydra EMS, Arias, Pauter, Manley Performance Dealer....

12-27-2005, 10:43 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mr. Bob Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 402	Thanks midiwall I had searched, and did LOTS of reading... infact hours... but also lots of what I was reading was old... so I had a feel on a few tihngs... but I was also missing some really important pieces that I needed aswell... thanks for the help!!! Bob

12-27-2005, 11:29 AM	#6 (permalink)
Mr. Bob Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 402	Dont worry.... the thought of slapping the kit in there, closing the hood, and driving with mid grade gas because my tank was not low enough yet for permium is not my style.... Thats why Im asking these questions.... A lot of this 4runner stuff is new to me... so I figure is I read and ask... read and ask... then I cant go wrong....

12-31-2005, 02:59 PM	#14 (permalink)
Weasy2k Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 968	I dont think my kit will make any more power just because that has to do with fuel (the debate above) and if you get enough fuel then there is no power gain/loss (to a certain extent) You will make very similar amounts of power on gadgets kit...or a smt6 version...or a 7th injector. You got lots of other supporting mods that help the power... Once my cam swap happens im going to do a dyno with the same belt to keep thigns consistent then ill swap a new belt while strapped to the dyno and do a quick tune with new belt to see what changes this gives me. The cams will help keep the torque above the 230 mark all the way to the stock redline of 5600 thats the goal so you get above 200 starting at 1000 tand not seeing below 200 until the fuel injectors shut off. __________________ -Johnny --------------------------------- '96 Taco V6 4WD Auto with 262 S2S Cams New 5VZ-FE & 3VZ-E Cams available 5vz-fe Stock CR FI Pistons NOW available! www.sea2skytuning.com Plug and Play EMS! Perfect Power, Hydra EMS, Arias, Pauter, Manley Performance Dealer....

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