hross14

OK--it has been a long time since i posted to this thread but i finally am at that point where the i am almost done. However--here is scenario

rebuilt 3.4:
weasy2k cams (258 duration--mild....)
Manely high flow valves
"O" throttle body gasket (versus "D" tb gasket)
Doug Thorley headers and complete free flowing exhaust

Info:1999 Cali emissions 4runner, 3.4, 5Spd, New Tps, New AFR's, Rear O2, Cleanded IAC Valve, ....etc....there isnt much that isnt new ..etc...i will be swapping the 1999 TB back in. Currently i have the 1997 one in there. I am running the 1999 IAC though

Well started it the first time without the rear O2 and it barely ran and threw codes P0120(TPS), P0171 (Lean), and P0505.....but it is running like dog crap and really rich. I am going to go through everything and make sure it is all correct/operating correctly

I am not a new to all this--but i am getting a whipping on this so far. Maybe is not really what i am looking for--i need some input from folks that have actually gone through the process. Read and searched Midiwalls....etc...odeals. It wont idle and the new cats are glowing red when it was first run.....i am at a lost.....

Oh and when i first ran it i had the 1997 Fuel injectors and FPR on their--but will be changing back to the 1999 injectors and FPR.....

Help is greatly appreciated

THanks

Henry

hross14

bumping--might also post in other parts of the tech section

hross14

bumpity

hross14

OK--so this is what we think me narrowed it down to. I used the injectors off a 1997 3.4, 49 states. From what i have read they were rated at 240CC but actual was more like 238CC. The 1999 injectors (Cali spec) look like they are running at 245. Is it likely only 7cc would throw the computer off that much? We figure that because the "tendencies" of each injector are different it wouldnt even be in the computer tables.

Does anybody know alot details about these 2 different injectors?

1999 Part number--23250-62040 (i think they are Nikki)
1997 Part Number--23209-62030

eddieleephd

Sounds to me like you need a new TPS and the lean condition should be solved with a new set of injectors.

since the 0505 code is a general Idle Malfunction then if you fix the first two this may be as well.

hross14

Nope--all these items are new and verified.....

"""Info:1999 Cali emissions 4runner, 3.4, 5Spd, New Tps, New AFR's, Rear O2, Cleanded IAC Valve, ....etc....there isnt much that isnt new ..etc...i will be swapping the 1999 TB back in. Currently i have the 1997 one in there. I am running the 1999 IAC though"""

eddieleephd

Nope--all these items are new and verified.....

Does this include the proper injectors now? that is what I meant by new injectors.

the throttle body is what I came up with with a search for the 0505 code.

is there a forward o2 sensor? and have you checked out the igniter at all?

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...-system-fault/

07-13-2008, 04:51 PM p0505

Had that exact same code on my 2001 Taco, I replaced the fuel filter and that was it. $15 Part, 15 minute job.

hross14

Neither set of injectors were bad--they were both working just fine. one set was cleaned by RC engineering

This is a 99 Cali Spec--uses AFR as the front exhaust sensor.

Really all the senors are fine. This is more an ECU/ECM tuning and or other related problem--Little more advanced than just regular R&R

Just got an email from John at RC Engineering that both injectors Flow EXACTLY the same CC's. Crap. Hopefully there is something slight different between the two sets and ECM maps that makes them operate differently. I am putting the top end together either tonight or Wednesday--so we will know then.

HOWEVER: Found another thread were Weasy2k did an actual flow test on both and came up with 230cc on the earlier model and 248 on the later??

eddieleephd

from what I understand they all base their FAR on the front o2 sensor I have a Cali spec O2 sensor in mine as far as I know they all do that the same.

as I said earlier all of the 0505 specific threads said the throttle body or the fuel filter either way it is between the pump and the injectors or sensors. could for all intents and purposes be a loose plug!!! did you use di electric?
loose plug could be o2 or ECM any where on the fuel circuit.

hross14

No, they dont base a FAR?? on the front O2--it doesnt have a front O2 per se. It is an Air Fuel Ratio Sensor and completely different. The front AFR is calibrated based on the O2 reading from the rear O2 sensor. All sensors sweep correctly and are not loose.

The Throttle Body works and IAC Valve specs out great. Like i said, everything is pretty much new and has been checked and double checked--

This problem is deeper than that

MT GOAT where are you--MIDIWALL you out there? Pioneers---Dr, Z??? I wouldnt mind some calification on your states of tune....

hross14

Just a follow up and for your information—These two parts are not interchangeable per se. These are your guys numbers [RC Engineering] from my cleanings. Figured I would pass the info along in case it is ever needed by somebody else

1997 Injector, 3.4 liter Toyota, Part #23209-62030: @165K miles
Ohms:14.1, 240cc, No pintle cap

1999 Injector, 3.4 Liter, Cali Emission Toyota, Part# 23250-6240: @100K miles
Ohms: 13.8, 250CC, Large off white two hole Pintle cap which is easily broken and there are no replacements for it as of yet

It is part of the Air Assisted Injection Toyota developed. All 3.4 have it but depending on the injector and application the programming may differ and a few other items.

This is the cause of my problem because the pintle cap is integrated into that Air Assisted Injection. Different injectors and specs seal or assist differently.

SEAIRESCUE

OK, I'll take a shot at your dilemas. With all the electronics now on cars, you have to be cautious on introducing too many variables when making changes. In your case, it appears you have made too many changes at once. The cams and mechanical parts is not likely a concern but I don't know much about the cam profiles to say for sure. Now, swapping injectors may not be an issue since their impediance values are very close....but...the computer may not like the different values though they are very small. Its an unknown variable. I would put the stock injectors back since the output difference of the two types is very small. Regarding O2 sensors, now that is a variable worth focusing on in your search for a solution. The red cats concern me. That implies way too much fuel is making its way to the cat. You have a running rich problem that is likely the MAF sensor. Try and ohm it out to see if it is functioning. The O2 sensors are tough but if a code is thrown indicating they are bad, may have to get a replacement(s). Each time you make a change, pull the negative battery lead and clear the computer.

My $0.02

hross14

THanks for the response but i figured it out. It basically boils down the the Air Assisted Fuel Injection. THe Pintle cap on the 1999 (Stock) injectors is way different than the 1997's (dont have one)

This system bleeds air right to the injector nozzle/tip. Depending on year and various other small tid bits--the computer is programed to run the different injector configurations (pintle caps, AFR's versus O2's, slightly larger injectors........on an on.

To much air was bleeding through the IAC causing who knows what to happen in the grand scheme of things??? But running the right injectors should correct the problem and allow me more wiggle room to tune........

eddieleephd

glad you got it figured out sounds about right.

hross14

OK final Resolution--Biggest newbie mistake of my life....

I had the firing order off. Holy crap. The fargin firing order---do i ever feel like a horses a*s. However, i did learn a lot about this motor.....