ROMAD

Figures :pat:

Have you looked at the gas peddle side of the cable? I did when I was looking for a way to adjust it.

There is a red/orange squishy thing that seems to compress on the cable while the peddle is being pressed. I wonder if it would help things to replace that with something more solid?? I was thinking it would allow the peddle to actuate the cable with more response and less slop....but then again - I've already been wrong once today

callmej75

Nah I never checked that out...but its definately a thought! Thats what we are here for..insight and knowledge! I've learned alot here...

phorensic

Ok, you are the first person who has said that I am backwards. But it makes sense, advanced=more power. I think we should take a poll on which way is which, lol.

I think the problem here is that the 3vze distributor is backwards from most other motors. And I think what the Haynes guys did is just pull from their experience from tuning other motors and say that clockwise=retard without paying too much attention. I say this because I've read a whole bunch of articles on the net about advancing timing and they all say counterclockwise=advance.

Well, I can just keep saying things until I get a timing light. But why do I need one now?... I have more power!

ROMAD

Ok, My 1995 must be setup differently because I just checked things out and here is how my TB cables are setup, when viewing from the front/radiator with the hood open:



Top - back = Goes to cruise control
Top - front = Goes to Automatic Transmission
Bottom = Goes to firewall then to gas peddle

Also, I do have a timing light and I jumped the diag port and then set the timing to 5 deg BTDC ( counter clockwise is advancing the timing ). Took a drive around the block test drive and didn't observe any pinging....after traffic dies down some I'll go hit the freeway and see what happens.



BTW - The factory timing on the emissions sticker calls for 10 deg BTDC and when I first checked, it was more like 12 - 15deg BTDC . The timing marks are numbered 10 - 5 - 0 - 5 and my timing is now set on the green 5 where it used to be left of the green 10.

callmej75

Correct me if i'm wrong...but the green 5-10 is btdc advanced and the red is retarded from tdc. if you are confused on the throttle cable placement then have someone get in the vehicle and press the gas pedal and you will see which one operates it. or just put your fingers up where the cable is and rev the engine that way.

ROMAD

Thats from the Factory Service manual showing how to set 10 deg Before Top Dead Center. You can read the PDF for yourself here

Its on page EG2-25 of the PDF I linked.

I traced the throttle cable from the throttle body to the gas peddle about 30 mins ago. I dont have a helper but its plain as day to me which cables go where.

callmej75

YOU'RE RIGHT YOU'RE RIGHT! I'm the dumbass...took a simple thing and turned it into complicated s*&^! Sorry for the misinformation...i just adjusted my bottom cable going into the gas pedal and readjusted my cruise back to where it was. Once again...sorry for the misinformation! Learn something new everyday...

ROMAD

Just becasue I wanted to make sure there was no room for error on my part here is the pic from the FSM



Its availible as a PDF from the same site here link

BTW - Thanks for posting the FSM Nathan

mt_goat

As I understand it the timing is simply adjusting at what point in the piston cycle the spark plug fires. It seems to me the best time to fire would be right at TDC, but I'm no expert.

I would like a Chocolate Chip please.

phorensic

Does that help? When the throttle can fully open the two parts I labeled on the outside of the green arrow will collide.

Bumpin' Yota

I forget where I read it, however reducing timing advance gives you more low end grunt at the expense oif top end power. The converse also being true of advanced timing.

For the first 200,000 miles of my trucks life the timing was 15* BTDC!! Then after I did my timing belt, my truck pinged!! So I backed the timing down to 10* and threw in high test. WOW!! When I step on the gas the front end lifts up now and the back end drops a good 3"..... Then the shift into second has the same effect....

AgRunner06

I guess your truck is different from mine, but mine feels more sluggish throughout the rpm range with the timing at 10 degrees rather than at 12. I don't notice any more low end grunt or anything of that nature.

mt_goat

Was that 5 deg retarded from the factory specs of 10 deg BTDC? Or in other words 5 deg BTDC?

ROMAD

Technically its 5 deg advanced from the factory setting of 10 BTDC for an end result of 5 deg BDTC.

I set my timing to 5 deg BTDC as an experiment after reading that very same post. I used to get the occasional ping or knocks at times with the factory setting but since I have been running 5 deg BTDC she does run better and the acceleration does seem improved. Oddest thing is that there is no pinging or knocking at all....even though I had some at 10 deg.

So far I am quite pleased with the 5 deg BTDC - its been two tanks of gas since the change but I will let it go two more before I decide if I keep it or if I will move it around some more....

Reldnew

Reading this thread made me curious, so tonight I got out the timing light and tach and set my timing at 5deg BTDC. Previously it was set at 10 deg BTDC and this truck has pinged for over 100,000 mi. unless I run premium. And yes, cap, rotor, plugs, wires, filters etc. are all fresh. So far, way more low end power and less part throttle/light throttle ping, although a bit more full throttle ping was detected. I'll run it this way for a couple of days and see how the mileage and hwy power pan out. All of this retard/advance discussion has me dizzy. Around here, the gearheads refer to any timing adjustment in the direction of BTDC as "advance" and ATDC as "retard"--the spark occuring before TDC meaning advance, the spark occuring after TDC meaning retard. So today I would say, I retarded my timing advance to 5 deg BTDC. But every wrench has their own way of stating it.
I am really curious regarding everybodys results.

ROMAD

Let us know how it goes for you. Be sure to pull the ECU fuse to reset the ECU and then give it a tank of gas to settle in. I didn't really see/feel/hear the full effects for a tank or two after resetting the ECU. Its gradual but you should notice results fairly quick. After three tanks now I like the improvement but there is two side effects: 1) very minor cold engine hesitation on part throttle acceleration 2) gas mileage took a hit

1) is very tolerable and only really noticeable when I am backing out of the driveway and first start off in gear

2) is probably my right foot enjoying the new pep more than anything

I hear you on the references....I am probably wrong but to me if you are before top dead center and you move closer to center then you are advancing the timing - even if you stop in a position that is still 'retarded'...
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EDIT - Damn I have been thinking about this for awhile now and sonuvabitch but I am pretty sure you are right and I am wrong with these terms - hell its been 18 years since auto shop Either way - we both know what we were talking about...even if I was describing the action backwards. Thanks for helping me remember what my 12th grade shop teacher taught me all those years ago Thats what I get for spending more time with routers and servers than distributors and timing lights.

hosh

Advancing your timeing gives the fuel longer to burn.

hosh

but that is only good at higher rpm. At lower rpm it increases resistance theirby robbing power. I used to drag race and adjusting timeing is important to get peak power at the desired rpm range.