mud terrian tires- wider is better?

shantz · 06-29-2006, 06:10 PM

not to knowledgeable on mud tires,
looking to purchase set of mud tires before hunting season
do I want to get a wider mud tires or narrow?
looking to add aggressive tred , super swamper or something

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byron4 · 06-29-2006, 06:16 PM

dont quote me on this but im fairly certian that a skinnyer one is better. hopefully some other smart folk will chime in on a more positive answer.

shantz · 06-29-2006, 06:22 PM

I have the same tires as you, BFG 31" AT's they do fine for regular offroad but when hunting season hits and the roads get real mucky and the AT's just coat up and turn into slicks.
looking to get second set of tires but do not know whether to go wider or narrow
not going to add a lift so will keep to 31 or 33's, I do have the OME HD coils so should have plenty of clearance in the rear
anybody know if 33's will fit a 93 4rnr?

1985 4Runner · 06-29-2006, 06:31 PM

get wide tires, preferably boggers if used for mud. Trust me, skinny tires are for rock crawling, they will dig down in mud & leave you sitting on the axles.

shantz · 06-29-2006, 06:34 PM

I was just looking at some boggers
you think the 33 boggers will clear or will I get too much rub?
anybody have any recommendations on the tire width that would be best?

Tanto · 06-29-2006, 06:38 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe swamper 33's are actually 33.9"

If you have the cash, BFG Muds are great but there are a lot of similar tread tires out there that you could get for less $$

Edit: Figure on buying wider rims for 12.5" or wider tires.

Intrepid · 06-29-2006, 06:42 PM

Skinny tires will dig down through the soft stuff and bite into the hard pack underneath, which will get you through. Large wide tires will give you more flotation so that you don't sink as deep, but you will end up sitting on top ripping it up more. I argued the same thing that 1985 4runner is saying on ttora a while back and noone agreed with me, haha.
Here are a couple quotes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by valkyrie

I agree with most of what was posted, but not about wide tires. Tall, skinny & knobby will cut through best, and momentum is your friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by valkyrie

Spending most of my life in Florida, I have done more than my share of stupid things involving mud... I guess I was just trying to help others avoid the same errors. A full tilt mud rig can be built relatively cheap, will be lots of fun and much more practical should you have to abandon it for a day or two (and you will someday)

My old mud rig: 1975 F150 2x4, Lincoln-locked, cammed 302 w/ 289 heads, rear blocks, front cut & flipped I-beams for 8" susp. lift and 3" B/L running 38 x 11 Swampers. Nothing but momentum!

Quote:

Originally Posted by valkyrie

I repectfully disagree about "floatation" tires. They won't float you like Herbie the Lovebug- they are best suited for floating on terrain- sand to be specific.

If you're going to mud with the big dogs, you want serious lift to fit tall & skinny big lug tires... so they'll cut through- hopefully down to some hardpan or a root or something. Big lugs that clean themselves out well.

I kept my mud tires aired up around 50 psi to cut, and also to avoid crap (branches, roots, etc) from getting jammed into the beads.

tc · 06-29-2006, 06:42 PM

There are two schools of thought:

Wider: The idea is to spread the weight of the truck so you "float" on the surface.

Taller: The idea is to get down to the bottom where the solid traction is.

I have found that it depends on the type of mud, but for our trucks, the tall/skinny approach seems to work best. For the same amount of lift, you can run a considerably taller tire if it's skinny. It's hard to fit a tire that's wide enough to truly "float" the truck.

You didn't say what kind of truck you have, but if it's pre-'95, you can fit 33x10.50 on stock rims with no lift.

The important thing is the tread pattern - open and nasty! If you don't take it on the street much, get some SuperSwamper TSL or LTB and mud won't be too much of a concern.

shantz · 06-29-2006, 06:44 PM

thanks the input
anybody have any recommendations where to buy the tires and wheels online?
looking for a package deal
the BFG MT look like a good tire a few of the trucks at the hunt club have them and they do pretty good
my stock yota is one of the smaller trucks out there and the ruts get pretty deep so need some agressive sidewalls to help pull out of the ruts

BeaterToyota · 06-29-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shantz

looking to get second set of tires but do not know whether to go wider or narrow
not going to add a lift so will keep to 31 or 33's

I don't know if wider or skinnier is better, but I had a set of 32x10.50 Super Swamper radials for the last four years and they kicked ass in just about every terrain except really hard packed dirt. That size swamper is about the same as a 33x10.50 BFG, and will fit with stock wheels and stock suspension. I loved those tires, but I decided to SAS my junk and go with 36" Swampers.

BeaterToyota · 06-29-2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shantz

thanks the input
anybody have any recommendations where to buy the tires and wheels online?
looking for a package deal

I bought my Swampers, mounted on rims, from www.ntwonline.com. When I was shopping 4 years ago they had the best price for delivery to Fairfax.

shantz · 06-29-2006, 06:55 PM

sweet
I will check out the link. thanks

1985 4Runner · 06-29-2006, 07:55 PM

Without getting into a huge debate, a 33" skinny tire will dig down to about 13-15" before you bottom out on you axle. A wider tire in the same rut will allow you to go over the existing rut without bottoming out. If I had a nickle for every truck I pulled out last week running skinny tires, well I'd have a lot of nickles...

Since you specified mud, look at what pro mud dragsters use...wide tires.

http://www.nmro.net/mud_drags.html

I know there is a lot of debate on the subject & I'm just stating what I have experienced.

Kyle95sr5 · 06-29-2006, 08:01 PM

wheres roger brown when u need him???

1985 4Runner · 06-29-2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid

I argued the same thing that 1985 4runner is saying on ttora a while back and noone agreed with me, haha.

You should have PM'd me. I would have agreed with you! Don't tell me, they changed you mind? I think I saw that thread but I don't remember if I posted or not.

AH64ID · 06-29-2006, 08:13 PM

The main question that needs to asked is, what are you using them for. You mention lots of mud, and hunting. Are you driving muddy roads or mud bogging? This makes for a huge difference in tire requirments.

I too have had great luck, like Beater, with the 32x10.50 TSL Radial. I would still be running it, if it wasnt too small for 4"+ of lift.

If you are looking for a hunting tire, not a bogging tire, get something like a 33x10.50 in BFG Mud. I have had better luck with a little skinnier tire when hunting. This is because when hunting you are mostly on slick dirt/gravel roads. Its not usually that deep to the hard ground, and its easier to reach with a skinny tire. You can also go a little taller when you go skinner, and chains (which wore great in deep mud/snow) fit much better on skinny tires.

Dont get more tire than you need, that will make you more unhappy than your AT's. i.e. if you get boggers they may be great slow on the road, but dont have great manners on the street. I sold my tsl bias for that reason, the benefits werent anywhere near the downfalls.

^VooDoo^ · 06-29-2006, 10:19 PM

Ive notice on some of the travels Ive done over the years and on some of the cable channels that farmers use tall skinny tires, Ive also seen how most outback trucks and mudbogg racers use the same so there must be some truth in that part.
I also understand what 85-4runner is saying but I think its because he has the power to spin the mud completely out of the pit.

bob200587 · 06-29-2006, 10:41 PM

Tall and skinny is proabably the best setup for toyotas. They just look alot better IMO too. I would never put anything wider than 11.50 unless it was 35" or taller. I think what Voodoo just mentioned about 854runner is very true. Those fat tires take ALOT to get spinning, and they're heavy too.

Intrepid · 06-30-2006, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1985 4Runner

Without getting into a huge debate, a 33" skinny tire will dig down to about 13-15" before you bottom out on you axle. A wider tire in the same rut will allow you to go over the existing rut without bottoming out. If I had a nickle for every truck I pulled out last week running skinny tires, well I'd have a lot of nickles...

Since you specified mud, look at what pro mud dragsters use...wide tires.

http://www.nmro.net/mud_drags.html

I know there is a lot of debate on the subject & I'm just stating what I have experienced.

Right, but you can't get a terribly wide 33, so really a "wide" 33 wouldn't provide that much flotation, I mean, yeah, if you have an 18.5" wide tire it would, but you won't have 33's that wide.Pro Mud dragsters have a LOT more horespower than the average Toyota though, which definitely helps.

kyle_22r · 06-30-2006, 07:18 AM

swamper makes a 33x15.5R15 SX if i'm not mistaken.

i'm more fond of pizza cutters, especially since i'm running a 4 cylinder.

ToyotaGuru · 06-30-2006, 07:44 AM

Floation is good if you have the HP to push the tires over the mud.
Most of the time the suction and resistance stop the momentum.

The object in mud is to clean the tires and keep moving.
The best mud tire ever bogger.

Personal Experince,
My friend wins mud bogs at VA Motorsports Park with
38.5x11-15 Bogger but when he used to run 39.5x18-15
He couln't full pull!

You're stock 22RE motor has a better luck tractring you through the mud on skinnies than propelling you over the mud with floaters. However, I did have
real good luck with some wore out 33x14.50 mickey hps but they don't dig you
in you're grave like the same 33x14-15 bogger.

When you hit the mud with a wide tire the engine rpms will die so you will be
stuck with the low rpms and sitting on top the mud. With the skinnies you will go farther but when you are stuck you are buried.

GRNTACO · 06-30-2006, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1985 4Runner

get wide tires, preferably boggers if used for mud. Trust me, skinny tires are for rock crawling, they will dig down in mud & leave you sitting on the axles.

Skinny for mud, fat for rocks.

Beast · 06-30-2006, 08:46 AM

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04 Rocko Taco · 06-30-2006, 08:53 AM

DEfinitely two trains of thought here, fat for mud, skinnies on rocks, and skinnies for mud, fat for rocks....Now IM so confused, I'll never know. I'm running 33" (X12.50) BFG MT's as an alla round off road tire.

rswords · 06-30-2006, 10:53 AM

Around here its fat... Muds to deep for a skinny tire to get to the bottom... Floating is the ONLY way to go througn the spots we are in... But if its only a foot or so deep a skinny tire will float better.

In all these the truck is sitting on the frame...

06-29-2006, 06:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
byron4 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: coloRADo Posts: 366	dont quote me on this but im fairly certian that a skinnyer one is better. hopefully some other smart folk will chime in on a more positive answer. __________________ 1993 4runner: ARB air locker rear. aisin manual hubs. SDORI ball joint spacers, OME 901 coils, Sonoran Steel IFS truss, 33x10.5 BFG AT's, hacked into the dash clinometer, marlin crawler sliders, custom armorology rear bumper, and a lot of custom dents. -Byron

06-29-2006, 06:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,372	There are two schools of thought: Wider: The idea is to spread the weight of the truck so you "float" on the surface. Taller: The idea is to get down to the bottom where the solid traction is. I have found that it depends on the type of mud, but for our trucks, the tall/skinny approach seems to work best. For the same amount of lift, you can run a considerably taller tire if it's skinny. It's hard to fit a tire that's wide enough to truly "float" the truck. You didn't say what kind of truck you have, but if it's pre-'95, you can fit 33x10.50 on stock rims with no lift. The important thing is the tread pattern - open and nasty! If you don't take it on the street much, get some SuperSwamper TSL or LTB and mud won't be too much of a concern. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

06-29-2006, 08:01 PM	#14 (permalink)
Kyle95sr5 Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bucklesberry, North Carolina Posts: 1,181	wheres roger brown when u need him??? __________________ Kyle SOLD:http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=117624 1995 Toyota 4runner SR5 4x4 - 31x10.50 BFG ATS - MANIK Brushguard with 2 Hella 500s - Custom roof rack with 4 BAJA lights - Vortex Muffler - Rancho shocks all around - WabFab 1 inch body lift - Dual HU - Infinity Kappas in rear - Pioneers in the front

06-29-2006, 08:13 PM	#16 (permalink)
AH64ID Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,637	The main question that needs to asked is, what are you using them for. You mention lots of mud, and hunting. Are you driving muddy roads or mud bogging? This makes for a huge difference in tire requirments. I too have had great luck, like Beater, with the 32x10.50 TSL Radial. I would still be running it, if it wasnt too small for 4"+ of lift. If you are looking for a hunting tire, not a bogging tire, get something like a 33x10.50 in BFG Mud. I have had better luck with a little skinnier tire when hunting. This is because when hunting you are mostly on slick dirt/gravel roads. Its not usually that deep to the hard ground, and its easier to reach with a skinny tire. You can also go a little taller when you go skinner, and chains (which wore great in deep mud/snow) fit much better on skinny tires. Dont get more tire than you need, that will make you more unhappy than your AT's. i.e. if you get boggers they may be great slow on the road, but dont have great manners on the street. I sold my tsl bias for that reason, the benefits werent anywhere near the downfalls. __________________ -John '05 Dodge 3500 SRW 4x4 SLT 5.9 Cummins QC LB NV5600 2003 SR5 4Runner, V6 4WD. 1" cornfed lift Previous Toyota's '92 Red Truck NALA Speed doesn't kill, its the sudden stop that hurts.

06-29-2006, 10:41 PM	#18 (permalink)
bob200587 Contributing Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,853	Tall and skinny is proabably the best setup for toyotas. They just look alot better IMO too. I would never put anything wider than 11.50 unless it was 35" or taller. I think what Voodoo just mentioned about 854runner is very true. Those fat tires take ALOT to get spinning, and they're heavy too. __________________ 87 4runner 4x4 SR5 22RE ARB Bull Bar, 31X10.50 Mastercraft M/T's, Stock 4.10 Gears, Flowmaster Muffler, LCE Header AISIN Manual Hubs, Marlin Crawler Sliders 190XXX miles

06-29-2006, 06:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
shantz Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: virginia Posts: 185	I have the same tires as you, BFG 31" AT's they do fine for regular offroad but when hunting season hits and the roads get real mucky and the AT's just coat up and turn into slicks. looking to get second set of tires but do not know whether to go wider or narrow not going to add a lift so will keep to 31 or 33's, I do have the OME HD coils so should have plenty of clearance in the rear anybody know if 33's will fit a 93 4rnr?

06-29-2006, 06:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
shantz Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: virginia Posts: 185	I was just looking at some boggers you think the 33 boggers will clear or will I get too much rub? anybody have any recommendations on the tire width that would be best?

06-29-2006, 06:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
shantz Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: virginia Posts: 185	thanks the input anybody have any recommendations where to buy the tires and wheels online? looking for a package deal the BFG MT look like a good tire a few of the trucks at the hunt club have them and they do pretty good my stock yota is one of the smaller trucks out there and the ruts get pretty deep so need some agressive sidewalls to help pull out of the ruts

06-29-2006, 06:55 PM	#12 (permalink)
shantz Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: virginia Posts: 185	sweet I will check out the link. thanks

06-29-2006, 10:19 PM	#17 (permalink)
^VooDoo^ Contributing Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Alhambra CA. Posts: 395	Ive notice on some of the travels Ive done over the years and on some of the cable channels that farmers use tall skinny tires, Ive also seen how most outback trucks and mudbogg racers use the same so there must be some truth in that part. I also understand what 85-4runner is saying but I think its because he has the power to spin the mud completely out of the pit.

06-30-2006, 07:18 AM	#20 (permalink)
kyle_22r Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lacey, WA Posts: 3,992	swamper makes a 33x15.5R15 SX if i'm not mistaken. i'm more fond of pizza cutters, especially since i'm running a 4 cylinder. __________________ 1998 tacoma, 3RZ-FE, 5 speed, 30x9.5R15 M/Ts past toys: 1984 4x2 1979 4x4 1991 4x4

06-30-2006, 07:44 AM	#21 (permalink)
ToyotaGuru Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Yorktown, Va Posts: 138	Skinny Floation is good if you have the HP to push the tires over the mud. Most of the time the suction and resistance stop the momentum. The object in mud is to clean the tires and keep moving. The best mud tire ever bogger. Personal Experince, My friend wins mud bogs at VA Motorsports Park with 38.5x11-15 Bogger but when he used to run 39.5x18-15 He couln't full pull! You're stock 22RE motor has a better luck tractring you through the mud on skinnies than propelling you over the mud with floaters. However, I did have real good luck with some wore out 33x14.50 mickey hps but they don't dig you in you're grave like the same 33x14-15 bogger. When you hit the mud with a wide tire the engine rpms will die so you will be stuck with the low rpms and sitting on top the mud. With the skinnies you will go farther but when you are stuck you are buried.

06-30-2006, 08:46 AM	#23 (permalink)
Beast Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orcas WA Posts: 124	BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they are a great all around tire they clear out and hookup they are the quietest mud terrian made they tough as h_ll and good wear BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BF Goodrich MUD TERRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ Beast started out as an 81' now W/ 7mgte, w56, 2nd gen rearend, centerforce DF, FX bucket seats, Beast bumpers front and rear, reinforced frame, custom steel grill, custom quad headlights, four 165 watt KC daylighters on double tube roll bar, eight speaker stereo,

06-30-2006, 08:53 AM	#24 (permalink)
04 Rocko Taco Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 4,070	DEfinitely two trains of thought here, fat for mud, skinnies on rocks, and skinnies for mud, fat for rocks....Now IM so confused, I'll never know. I'm running 33" (X12.50) BFG MT's as an alla round off road tire. __________________ -Chris Tread Lightly! 04 Double Cab PreRunner. 3.4 - Auto 84 4Runner 4WD. 22R - 5 spd Lifted, Locked, 33x12.50 Disclaimer:My Photobucket is being revamped. If there are broken links, shoot me a PM. Thanks. ~Chris Great Toyota Tech

06-30-2006, 10:53 AM	#25 (permalink)
rswords Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 69	Around here its fat... Muds to deep for a skinny tire to get to the bottom... Floating is the ONLY way to go througn the spots we are in... But if its only a foot or so deep a skinny tire will float better. In all these the truck is sitting on the frame... __________________ '85 yota pick-up 35" Ground Hawgs 5.29's hy-steer w/ hydro assist sitting on the shop floor 22 w/R header, cam, head job, 40mm weber If you need ANYTHING pro-tools and wanna talk wheeling with a cool guy check out... http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447061 or http://www.mikegreen4x4.com

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