OM617 - 87 4Runner 5-speed Swap ?'s
11-14-2012, 04:17 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OM617 - 87 4Runner 5-speed Swap ?'s
So I have been flip flopping swap ideas, been all over the map. I have finally decided this is what I want to do for lots of reasons, but I won't post them to keep this post shorter.
After ~35k miles, my budget rebuild 22re is falling fast so I need to do something now.
I have a solid axle I want to put in it but seeing as that won't do me any good if it's not running, I want to do the engine swap first.
I have searched on here, great info btw, but am confused as some of the responses are conflicting.
So here goes:
(1.) All I need to do for the fuel system (other than make the filler neck diesel friendly) is remove the pump and add a section of tubing to keep the same pick-up height as the bottom of the pump/sock? Since the sock will be removed, can I use a new stock yota fuel filter (relocated) prior to feeding the engine or is all I need is a cheap lawnmower style bulb filter?
(2.) I would prefer to not cut my rad support, can this engine fit with stock location trans/transfer and radiator with pushers or do I need to move it back, even to use pushers? I don't want to use a body lift, does that mean firewall "adjustments" and a hole in my hood? How about everything in the stock location and I find a different rad to go under the support with pushers? A/C is something I will figure out later.
(3.) Since I have IFS and won't be doing the SAS for awhile, I will have to modify my pan. Can I clearance the pan and just add "ears" to the oil pan, like a roadrace style pan to get the lost capacity back?
(4.) I want to use the yota flywheel although I keep seeing people say it's not balanced the same as the benz...I have seen anywhere from 2g to 27g difference posted, some with vibration, some without. What's the true skinny? I figure since companies are making kits and recommending the stock flywheel be used once holes added, there must not be enough balance difference to cause problems?
(5.) Some say the best years are the early 79-82 due to less junk on them, then others say the 83-85's are better due to better internals. Which is it?
I thought I was going to score big on a 176k mile 84 300 (entire car!) with slight deer damage for $1,000, well it was sold out from under me. Anyone in Va have any leads on donor cars or engines? The junkyards around here are just that, junk. Craigslist has been quiet for a few days.
Sorry for the rambling questions, in a hurry, internet time is limited tonight.
Thanks for any input!
-Jarrod
After ~35k miles, my budget rebuild 22re is falling fast so I need to do something now.
I have a solid axle I want to put in it but seeing as that won't do me any good if it's not running, I want to do the engine swap first.
I have searched on here, great info btw, but am confused as some of the responses are conflicting.
So here goes:
(1.) All I need to do for the fuel system (other than make the filler neck diesel friendly) is remove the pump and add a section of tubing to keep the same pick-up height as the bottom of the pump/sock? Since the sock will be removed, can I use a new stock yota fuel filter (relocated) prior to feeding the engine or is all I need is a cheap lawnmower style bulb filter?
(2.) I would prefer to not cut my rad support, can this engine fit with stock location trans/transfer and radiator with pushers or do I need to move it back, even to use pushers? I don't want to use a body lift, does that mean firewall "adjustments" and a hole in my hood? How about everything in the stock location and I find a different rad to go under the support with pushers? A/C is something I will figure out later.
(3.) Since I have IFS and won't be doing the SAS for awhile, I will have to modify my pan. Can I clearance the pan and just add "ears" to the oil pan, like a roadrace style pan to get the lost capacity back?
(4.) I want to use the yota flywheel although I keep seeing people say it's not balanced the same as the benz...I have seen anywhere from 2g to 27g difference posted, some with vibration, some without. What's the true skinny? I figure since companies are making kits and recommending the stock flywheel be used once holes added, there must not be enough balance difference to cause problems?
(5.) Some say the best years are the early 79-82 due to less junk on them, then others say the 83-85's are better due to better internals. Which is it?
I thought I was going to score big on a 176k mile 84 300 (entire car!) with slight deer damage for $1,000, well it was sold out from under me. Anyone in Va have any leads on donor cars or engines? The junkyards around here are just that, junk. Craigslist has been quiet for a few days.
Sorry for the rambling questions, in a hurry, internet time is limited tonight.
Thanks for any input!
-Jarrod
11-15-2012, 07:10 AM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll try to help out here, but please keep in mind that I am about 3/4 through this swap, so nothing is actually functioning yet. However, I've done a ton of research, and will say that everyone seems to have done this differently.
I am using the flywheel and bellhousing adapter kit from 4x4labs and the motor and accessory mounts from TDswaps.
1. The mercedes engine has a "bulb" style prefilter and then a second canister filter (similar to an oil filter) for the fuel, so I think that is pretty sufficient and I am just using a tube in the tank.
2. Using the TDswap motor mounts, I had to move my transmission crossmember back about 1.5 inches. This looks like it gives you just barely enough room for a radiator that is roughly 2.5" thick. I am going to try and use the Mercedes Radiator and expansion tank, as all the ports are in the correct location and I already had it from my donor car. It looks like I'll have about .5 inch of clearance between the bolts on the front of the water pump pulley and the radiator. I am using 2 small pusher fans in front of the a/c condenser. Doing this also requires you to relocate the MB power steering pump so that it sits back a bit further and off to the drivers side. TDswaps also provides this bracket. If you want to maintain A/C, he also has brackets that mounts the toyota compressor and a GM alternator in their original toyota location.
3. I notched my oil pan and left it at that. The engine uses 7 plus quarts of oil, so I'm hoping loosing a little more that a quart doesn't negatively affect the engine. Maybe I'll just change the oil a little more frequently. I have seen guys that do add this volume into the front of the oil pan as you are suggesting. I believe that even with a SAS, you need to notch the pan. The clearance is really for the steering linkage, which most guys like to keep high and out of the way.
4. I haven't heard or found a clear verdict on the balancing question either. I'm not match balancing and I'll see how it goes. There is no "key" or dowel pin to "clock" the flexplate to the mercedes motor, so I am hoping that the drill marks are there just to individually balance it.
5. I believe that 85 is the only year that has significant changes. All of the rest of the add ons in 81-84 can easily be unbolted/removed. I think most of these controls are for the automatic transmission and cruise control, which most of us aren't worried about.
Hope that helps.
Good Luck!
Jay
I am using the flywheel and bellhousing adapter kit from 4x4labs and the motor and accessory mounts from TDswaps.
1. The mercedes engine has a "bulb" style prefilter and then a second canister filter (similar to an oil filter) for the fuel, so I think that is pretty sufficient and I am just using a tube in the tank.
2. Using the TDswap motor mounts, I had to move my transmission crossmember back about 1.5 inches. This looks like it gives you just barely enough room for a radiator that is roughly 2.5" thick. I am going to try and use the Mercedes Radiator and expansion tank, as all the ports are in the correct location and I already had it from my donor car. It looks like I'll have about .5 inch of clearance between the bolts on the front of the water pump pulley and the radiator. I am using 2 small pusher fans in front of the a/c condenser. Doing this also requires you to relocate the MB power steering pump so that it sits back a bit further and off to the drivers side. TDswaps also provides this bracket. If you want to maintain A/C, he also has brackets that mounts the toyota compressor and a GM alternator in their original toyota location.
3. I notched my oil pan and left it at that. The engine uses 7 plus quarts of oil, so I'm hoping loosing a little more that a quart doesn't negatively affect the engine. Maybe I'll just change the oil a little more frequently. I have seen guys that do add this volume into the front of the oil pan as you are suggesting. I believe that even with a SAS, you need to notch the pan. The clearance is really for the steering linkage, which most guys like to keep high and out of the way.
4. I haven't heard or found a clear verdict on the balancing question either. I'm not match balancing and I'll see how it goes. There is no "key" or dowel pin to "clock" the flexplate to the mercedes motor, so I am hoping that the drill marks are there just to individually balance it.
5. I believe that 85 is the only year that has significant changes. All of the rest of the add ons in 81-84 can easily be unbolted/removed. I think most of these controls are for the automatic transmission and cruise control, which most of us aren't worried about.
Hope that helps.
Good Luck!
Jay
So I have been flip flopping swap ideas, been all over the map. I have finally decided this is what I want to do for lots of reasons, but I won't post them to keep this post shorter.
After ~35k miles, my budget rebuild 22re is falling fast so I need to do something now.
I have a solid axle I want to put in it but seeing as that won't do me any good if it's not running, I want to do the engine swap first.
I have searched on here, great info btw, but am confused as some of the responses are conflicting.
So here goes:
(1.) All I need to do for the fuel system (other than make the filler neck diesel friendly) is remove the pump and add a section of tubing to keep the same pick-up height as the bottom of the pump/sock? Since the sock will be removed, can I use a new stock yota fuel filter (relocated) prior to feeding the engine or is all I need is a cheap lawnmower style bulb filter?
(2.) I would prefer to not cut my rad support, can this engine fit with stock location trans/transfer and radiator with pushers or do I need to move it back, even to use pushers? I don't want to use a body lift, does that mean firewall "adjustments" and a hole in my hood? How about everything in the stock location and I find a different rad to go under the support with pushers? A/C is something I will figure out later.
(3.) Since I have IFS and won't be doing the SAS for awhile, I will have to modify my pan. Can I clearance the pan and just add "ears" to the oil pan, like a roadrace style pan to get the lost capacity back?
(4.) I want to use the yota flywheel although I keep seeing people say it's not balanced the same as the benz...I have seen anywhere from 2g to 27g difference posted, some with vibration, some without. What's the true skinny? I figure since companies are making kits and recommending the stock flywheel be used once holes added, there must not be enough balance difference to cause problems?
(5.) Some say the best years are the early 79-82 due to less junk on them, then others say the 83-85's are better due to better internals. Which is it?
I thought I was going to score big on a 176k mile 84 300 (entire car!) with slight deer damage for $1,000, well it was sold out from under me. Anyone in Va have any leads on donor cars or engines? The junkyards around here are just that, junk. Craigslist has been quiet for a few days.
Sorry for the rambling questions, in a hurry, internet time is limited tonight.
Thanks for any input!
-Jarrod
After ~35k miles, my budget rebuild 22re is falling fast so I need to do something now.
I have a solid axle I want to put in it but seeing as that won't do me any good if it's not running, I want to do the engine swap first.
I have searched on here, great info btw, but am confused as some of the responses are conflicting.
So here goes:
(1.) All I need to do for the fuel system (other than make the filler neck diesel friendly) is remove the pump and add a section of tubing to keep the same pick-up height as the bottom of the pump/sock? Since the sock will be removed, can I use a new stock yota fuel filter (relocated) prior to feeding the engine or is all I need is a cheap lawnmower style bulb filter?
(2.) I would prefer to not cut my rad support, can this engine fit with stock location trans/transfer and radiator with pushers or do I need to move it back, even to use pushers? I don't want to use a body lift, does that mean firewall "adjustments" and a hole in my hood? How about everything in the stock location and I find a different rad to go under the support with pushers? A/C is something I will figure out later.
(3.) Since I have IFS and won't be doing the SAS for awhile, I will have to modify my pan. Can I clearance the pan and just add "ears" to the oil pan, like a roadrace style pan to get the lost capacity back?
(4.) I want to use the yota flywheel although I keep seeing people say it's not balanced the same as the benz...I have seen anywhere from 2g to 27g difference posted, some with vibration, some without. What's the true skinny? I figure since companies are making kits and recommending the stock flywheel be used once holes added, there must not be enough balance difference to cause problems?
(5.) Some say the best years are the early 79-82 due to less junk on them, then others say the 83-85's are better due to better internals. Which is it?
I thought I was going to score big on a 176k mile 84 300 (entire car!) with slight deer damage for $1,000, well it was sold out from under me. Anyone in Va have any leads on donor cars or engines? The junkyards around here are just that, junk. Craigslist has been quiet for a few days.
Sorry for the rambling questions, in a hurry, internet time is limited tonight.
Thanks for any input!
-Jarrod
11-17-2012, 10:18 PM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sedalia, MO
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So I have been flip flopping swap ideas, been all over the map. I have finally decided this is what I want to do for lots of reasons, but I won't post them to keep this post shorter.
After ~35k miles, my budget rebuild 22re is falling fast so I need to do something now.
I have a solid axle I want to put in it but seeing as that won't do me any good if it's not running, I want to do the engine swap first.
I have searched on here, great info btw, but am confused as some of the responses are conflicting.
So here goes:
(1.) All I need to do for the fuel system (other than make the filler neck diesel friendly) is remove the pump and add a section of tubing to keep the same pick-up height as the bottom of the pump/sock? Since the sock will be removed, can I use a new stock yota fuel filter (relocated) prior to feeding the engine or is all I need is a cheap lawnmower style bulb filter?
(2.) I would prefer to not cut my rad support, can this engine fit with stock location trans/transfer and radiator with pushers or do I need to move it back, even to use pushers? I don't want to use a body lift, does that mean firewall "adjustments" and a hole in my hood? How about everything in the stock location and I find a different rad to go under the support with pushers? A/C is something I will figure out later.
(3.) Since I have IFS and won't be doing the SAS for awhile, I will have to modify my pan. Can I clearance the pan and just add "ears" to the oil pan, like a roadrace style pan to get the lost capacity back?
(4.) I want to use the yota flywheel although I keep seeing people say it's not balanced the same as the benz...I have seen anywhere from 2g to 27g difference posted, some with vibration, some without. What's the true skinny? I figure since companies are making kits and recommending the stock flywheel be used once holes added, there must not be enough balance difference to cause problems?
(5.) Some say the best years are the early 79-82 due to less junk on them, then others say the 83-85's are better due to better internals. Which is it?
I thought I was going to score big on a 176k mile 84 300 (entire car!) with slight deer damage for $1,000, well it was sold out from under me. Anyone in Va have any leads on donor cars or engines? The junkyards around here are just that, junk. Craigslist has been quiet for a few days.
Sorry for the rambling questions, in a hurry, internet time is limited tonight.
Thanks for any input!
-Jarrod
After ~35k miles, my budget rebuild 22re is falling fast so I need to do something now.
I have a solid axle I want to put in it but seeing as that won't do me any good if it's not running, I want to do the engine swap first.
I have searched on here, great info btw, but am confused as some of the responses are conflicting.
So here goes:
(1.) All I need to do for the fuel system (other than make the filler neck diesel friendly) is remove the pump and add a section of tubing to keep the same pick-up height as the bottom of the pump/sock? Since the sock will be removed, can I use a new stock yota fuel filter (relocated) prior to feeding the engine or is all I need is a cheap lawnmower style bulb filter?
(2.) I would prefer to not cut my rad support, can this engine fit with stock location trans/transfer and radiator with pushers or do I need to move it back, even to use pushers? I don't want to use a body lift, does that mean firewall "adjustments" and a hole in my hood? How about everything in the stock location and I find a different rad to go under the support with pushers? A/C is something I will figure out later.
(3.) Since I have IFS and won't be doing the SAS for awhile, I will have to modify my pan. Can I clearance the pan and just add "ears" to the oil pan, like a roadrace style pan to get the lost capacity back?
(4.) I want to use the yota flywheel although I keep seeing people say it's not balanced the same as the benz...I have seen anywhere from 2g to 27g difference posted, some with vibration, some without. What's the true skinny? I figure since companies are making kits and recommending the stock flywheel be used once holes added, there must not be enough balance difference to cause problems?
(5.) Some say the best years are the early 79-82 due to less junk on them, then others say the 83-85's are better due to better internals. Which is it?
I thought I was going to score big on a 176k mile 84 300 (entire car!) with slight deer damage for $1,000, well it was sold out from under me. Anyone in Va have any leads on donor cars or engines? The junkyards around here are just that, junk. Craigslist has been quiet for a few days.
Sorry for the rambling questions, in a hurry, internet time is limited tonight.
Thanks for any input!
-Jarrod
1.) Yes you can use the stock fuel system. I just removed the pump and put a piece of hose in its place. For filters the engine has 2 and the stock yota one is still in place.
2.) It's going to be very tight to get it in there without cutting the core support, but it can be done. If you relocate your engine yourself be careful to make sure you can remove the valve cover as they require 15k valve adjustments. It should fit with no body lift.
3.) The steering stabilizer on my truck had to go in order to get it to fit. Your's may differ as it is the 22re. You don't really loose enough capacity to upset the engine.
4.) I reused my 3vze flywheel and have no vibration whatsoever. It is smooth as can be. I did not have it balanced.
5.)You want an OM617.951 or .952. They are the turbo versions. If you get an 85 be sure it is the Federal version. Those models are the turbo version which you want. A non turbo version will not have enough power to get out of its own way.
Check my thread out there is quite a bit of info in there. I hit about every snag possible in my build.
11-18-2012, 03:18 PM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry for my delay, busy at work, busier after work (1yr old boy).
THANK YOU two for the very detailed help, that's exactly what I wanted/needed to hear. I feel so much better about this swap, and am even more motivated.
I also need to throw a HUGE thanks to Brian from TDswaps. He spent quite awhile on the phone with me answering all the newbie questions I had. Oddly enough I liked the design of his kit's parts before I knew it was him...lol.
I had originally wanted to make everything myself as I have access to water-jet, laser, brakes and have a welder myself. But after adding up just the raw materials (raw AL 6061 plate is ~$200 by itself!), I have determined that any difference in cost (if any) is a wash when compared to the time and running around I will have to do, which to me is sorta of money.
So I think I am going to take the less headache path and at least get the adapter plate, pilot bearing adapter and motor mounts. I may end up getting the pan too, we'll see, since I don't have to add the volume back, my country boy fabbing skills may suffice.
With all that being said, I have some more newb questions.
I am in a dilemma about a donor engine/car. I can find "low mileage" cars (I know the odometers are junk in these cars) that look rough all over but a fairly cheap. Most owners don't like/want me pulling glow plugs to do a compression check so I have been doing the same thing I do for gassers is the oil cap blow-by check. Then I hear with these engines, if there is a vacuum leak, they will appear to have blow-by that they really don't. Others say don't worry about a little blow-by, if it runs good, get it.
On the other side of the coin, I can find very nice but high mileage cars. For example I found one with 350K but original owner, all maintenance records and such for the same price as low mileage lessers. In my mind I am leaning more towards the higher mileage but maintained vehicles for a couple of reasons:
-If they took better care of the car overall, chances are the engine has actually been maintained. Kind of like the analogy "nice/clean restaurants have nice/clean restrooms"
-If the rest of the car is good, I can make some of that money back selling as is w/o engine or parting it out.
This reminds me, what are you guys doing with the donor vehicle, selling in whole or parting out?
So does higher mileage but better maintenance win over half the miles and questionable maintenance or should I just not buy anything that they won't let me do a comp check?
Ok, thanks again for all the help guys,
-Jarrod
THANK YOU two for the very detailed help, that's exactly what I wanted/needed to hear. I feel so much better about this swap, and am even more motivated.
I also need to throw a HUGE thanks to Brian from TDswaps. He spent quite awhile on the phone with me answering all the newbie questions I had. Oddly enough I liked the design of his kit's parts before I knew it was him...lol.
I had originally wanted to make everything myself as I have access to water-jet, laser, brakes and have a welder myself. But after adding up just the raw materials (raw AL 6061 plate is ~$200 by itself!), I have determined that any difference in cost (if any) is a wash when compared to the time and running around I will have to do, which to me is sorta of money.
So I think I am going to take the less headache path and at least get the adapter plate, pilot bearing adapter and motor mounts. I may end up getting the pan too, we'll see, since I don't have to add the volume back, my country boy fabbing skills may suffice.
With all that being said, I have some more newb questions.
I am in a dilemma about a donor engine/car. I can find "low mileage" cars (I know the odometers are junk in these cars) that look rough all over but a fairly cheap. Most owners don't like/want me pulling glow plugs to do a compression check so I have been doing the same thing I do for gassers is the oil cap blow-by check. Then I hear with these engines, if there is a vacuum leak, they will appear to have blow-by that they really don't. Others say don't worry about a little blow-by, if it runs good, get it.
On the other side of the coin, I can find very nice but high mileage cars. For example I found one with 350K but original owner, all maintenance records and such for the same price as low mileage lessers. In my mind I am leaning more towards the higher mileage but maintained vehicles for a couple of reasons:
-If they took better care of the car overall, chances are the engine has actually been maintained. Kind of like the analogy "nice/clean restaurants have nice/clean restrooms"
-If the rest of the car is good, I can make some of that money back selling as is w/o engine or parting it out.
This reminds me, what are you guys doing with the donor vehicle, selling in whole or parting out?
So does higher mileage but better maintenance win over half the miles and questionable maintenance or should I just not buy anything that they won't let me do a comp check?
Ok, thanks again for all the help guys,
-Jarrod
11-18-2012, 07:27 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sedalia, MO
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Honestly I wouldn't worry about the higher mileage engines if it shows care. Do the blow by check and see how it starts cold. The first engine I had for my swap had 360k on it and had the oil cooler not crapped out on the car it would have been a peach. It still had the hone marks in the bores. If you get a higher mileage engine be sure to do the timing chain and tensioner.
Trending Topics
11-18-2012, 08:04 PM
#8
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey, there you are Brian...cool deal, grassy-arse my friend!
PowerstrokeJoe: I looked through your build-up thread, you're a go getter for sure, nice job man! I did see the multiple engine fiasco but must have overlooked the oil cooler issue, did a line blow off, something clog or ?
Thanks for both of your responses guys.
Brian, if all goes well I will be ordering a partial kit (plus a few extras) very soon....squirrel one away for me please ;-)
PowerstrokeJoe: I looked through your build-up thread, you're a go getter for sure, nice job man! I did see the multiple engine fiasco but must have overlooked the oil cooler issue, did a line blow off, something clog or ?
Thanks for both of your responses guys.
Brian, if all goes well I will be ordering a partial kit (plus a few extras) very soon....squirrel one away for me please ;-)
11-19-2012, 05:14 AM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also had to remove my steering stabilizer with IFS and 22re. Least of my worries at this point, but I may see if I can remount it a little lower down the road.
11-19-2012, 07:05 AM
#10
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: appleton wisconsin
Posts: 392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did get the full kit from tdswaps. It was a nice kit. I did have to move the trans tcase mount back and new drive shafts as well , but that’s ok. I did not have to cut the core support out it dose fit but it tight.
I run 2 pusher fans in the front.. FYI don’t cheap out on the fans
I have all I can do to get the thermostat to open and get a reading on my temp gauge. Older style MB OM617 out of a 1980 300SD..
Here is a link to my build https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f162...l#post51955818
I will say others are much better than mine by far,
Beside the slipping belt problem all has been great.
I run 2 pusher fans in the front.. FYI don’t cheap out on the fans
I have all I can do to get the thermostat to open and get a reading on my temp gauge. Older style MB OM617 out of a 1980 300SD..
Here is a link to my build https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f162...l#post51955818
I will say others are much better than mine by far,
Beside the slipping belt problem all has been great.
11-19-2012, 06:55 PM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sedalia, MO
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank's for the compliment. I am beyond happy with the truck now. I think you will love it. No actually the oil cooler issue was from the PO of the original car. The engine mounts on it had collapsed and allowed the A/C belt to cut the oil cooler line. Believe it or not the engine ran fantastic and started easy it just had a slight tap. The only reason I decided to tear it down was some metal appeared in the oil.I picked up the car for $300 so I wasn't too upset about it. Its a crying shame though because that engine was pristine aside from the 2 bad bores.
11-21-2012, 03:59 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the help again guys. Some nice swaps on here, hopefully I will get there soon.
I've done the cheap pusher fan deal once before on my camaro...won't do that again. When you say older style, what do you mean? I thought all of the turbo 617's were the same from 79-85 minus the EGR and oil pan for fitment issues?
That's a shame PowerStroke, good motor gone bad for a silly reason.
Ok so I need some more spoonfeeding on these engines. I looked at a donor car today, '79 300 SD with supposedly 140K miles on it. Check the odometer, thought these cars only had 5 digits so is this 140,000 or potentially much more?
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
It was ~50F here and the car started right up after letting the glow plugs heat up, blow by was minimal coming out the oil cap then as it ran (~15min) got to a level around a boiling pot of water, if that gives a good visual. Definitely not puffing off compression but I wouldn't say good based off of previous gasser experience.
The water pump pulley was noticeable bent, I figure from an accident but didn't see any sheetmetal damage.
The car was made in April of '79, but it had EGR on it ?? I don't see evidence of an engine swap unless they swapped the trans with it.
PowerStroke, your comment about the motor mount reminds me, (odd really) the owner just replaced the driverside engine mount, the a/c belt was gone, and said he had a new mount for the pass side. I didn't think to check the oil lines for cuts but after running it for 15mins, neither of the lines going to the cooler were even remotely warm....oil flow problem?
When revved up it initially puff a light cloud of whitish/blue but then was clear.
The rest of the car is mostly junk, looks like a salt/chemical car from up north.
The oil pressure gauge was pegged, didn't see it drop but don't understand why MB would put a gauge in that would always be pegged?
The only diesel I've had is a '02 7.3L F250, this MB engine I think is a bit louder...does sound like most of the ones on here I have seen swapped. I didn't hear any bottom end noise but did here an intermittent "tap tap tap" then gone for a few seconds coming from the valvetrain.
Again, I know that doesn't help much and I seem to be spewing random thoughts on here but I just want to make sure I am not buying a turd as the only thing I need is the engine although it would be nice if I could make some of my money back on parting out the car.
I think I can get the car for $800-$900.
Thoughts anyone?
Happy early Thanksgiving everyone!
-Jarrod
I've done the cheap pusher fan deal once before on my camaro...won't do that again. When you say older style, what do you mean? I thought all of the turbo 617's were the same from 79-85 minus the EGR and oil pan for fitment issues?
That's a shame PowerStroke, good motor gone bad for a silly reason.
Ok so I need some more spoonfeeding on these engines. I looked at a donor car today, '79 300 SD with supposedly 140K miles on it. Check the odometer, thought these cars only had 5 digits so is this 140,000 or potentially much more?
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
It was ~50F here and the car started right up after letting the glow plugs heat up, blow by was minimal coming out the oil cap then as it ran (~15min) got to a level around a boiling pot of water, if that gives a good visual. Definitely not puffing off compression but I wouldn't say good based off of previous gasser experience.
The water pump pulley was noticeable bent, I figure from an accident but didn't see any sheetmetal damage.
The car was made in April of '79, but it had EGR on it ?? I don't see evidence of an engine swap unless they swapped the trans with it.
PowerStroke, your comment about the motor mount reminds me, (odd really) the owner just replaced the driverside engine mount, the a/c belt was gone, and said he had a new mount for the pass side. I didn't think to check the oil lines for cuts but after running it for 15mins, neither of the lines going to the cooler were even remotely warm....oil flow problem?
When revved up it initially puff a light cloud of whitish/blue but then was clear.
The rest of the car is mostly junk, looks like a salt/chemical car from up north.
The oil pressure gauge was pegged, didn't see it drop but don't understand why MB would put a gauge in that would always be pegged?
The only diesel I've had is a '02 7.3L F250, this MB engine I think is a bit louder...does sound like most of the ones on here I have seen swapped. I didn't hear any bottom end noise but did here an intermittent "tap tap tap" then gone for a few seconds coming from the valvetrain.
Again, I know that doesn't help much and I seem to be spewing random thoughts on here but I just want to make sure I am not buying a turd as the only thing I need is the engine although it would be nice if I could make some of my money back on parting out the car.
I think I can get the car for $800-$900.
Thoughts anyone?
Happy early Thanksgiving everyone!
-Jarrod
11-21-2012, 06:05 PM
#13
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I mentioned, I found another car that I am going to look at Monday, it's an '83, original owner too. The car looks to be in really good shape minus some tears in the leather seats. Owner said the speedo works but the odometer doesn't, has ~350,000 miles and the timing chain was replaced at 300k, about when the odo stopped working. Said they have receipts for everything minus all of the oil changes.
In a non-gay way, I have a much better, more comfortable feeling about the higher mileage car due to the owners versus the one posted about above. Powerstroke, your comment eases my mind too so thanks.
I get the impression it's a family car that has been replaced as they had children and are just moving on to bigger vehicles but took care of it so it would last.
Anywho, we'll see Monday I guess.
In a non-gay way, I have a much better, more comfortable feeling about the higher mileage car due to the owners versus the one posted about above. Powerstroke, your comment eases my mind too so thanks.
I get the impression it's a family car that has been replaced as they had children and are just moving on to bigger vehicles but took care of it so it would last.
Anywho, we'll see Monday I guess.
11-23-2012, 07:06 AM
#14
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crickets...everywhere.
So the '79 is actually a 6 digit odo and the owner recently drove the car so the odo/trip differences do add up which means the odo is working.
I found another one that has been running on centrifuged WVO for about 10K miles with a Frantz oil system on it (212K total on engine). This worries me as even with the good filtering system, the WVO seems to be hard on everything.
So the '79 is actually a 6 digit odo and the owner recently drove the car so the odo/trip differences do add up which means the odo is working.
I found another one that has been running on centrifuged WVO for about 10K miles with a Frantz oil system on it (212K total on engine). This worries me as even with the good filtering system, the WVO seems to be hard on everything.
11-23-2012, 06:16 PM
#15
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok disregard all the mumbo jumbo above. All I need to know is if anyone has ever seen a '79 300SD Turbo Diesel WITH egr? I'm going to look at the car again tomorrow, I think it's my best shot at getting a relatively decent om617.
I found one post on the net saying someone had one but other people in the thread were questioning it. Anyone?
I found one post on the net saying someone had one but other people in the thread were questioning it. Anyone?
11-24-2012, 01:24 PM
#16
Registered User
Hello there i have been looking into the om617 swaps myself for the distant future for my 83 ive read through a couple threads and stumbled across this one and you said you were in VA im in southwestern va (about an hour and a half south west of Roanoke) if you know where that is and figured when you get this project done it would be nice when i do my swap to know someone close by (hopefully) if you're near sw VA (not creepin on u just wanderin if u were close) Thanks -Byron
11-29-2012, 12:04 AM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sedalia, MO
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe all 617 turbos had EGR. I tacked mine shut and took the line off of it. BE careful of WVO. I will get flamed for that statement, but if its not done just right it will wipe out a fuel system. The 79 sounds like a good car. As long as the blow by isn't crazy I wouldn't worry about it. Almost all of them I have seen have blowby. The oil filter housing has a thermostat in it which doesn't open until the oil is hot.The engine mounts in these cars are notorious for collapsing and aren't real stout. I tore both of mine taking it out of the car, because the bolt heads rounded off. The whiteish smoke is most likely your ip timing being retarded a little from timing chain stretch. The oil pressure should be pegged until the car warms up when it will drop to around 1.5-1 bar. It should peg almost as soon as rpm increases. My truck will peg a 100psi gauge on a cold morning at idle. The 617 being indirect injected will have much more of a knock to it than the 7.3. Thats about all I can think of.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
