5.0L vs. 3.4L

Kiff · 11-03-2007, 04:38 PM

So I am at a cross roads on what to do with the motor in my truck. Both engines can be had for roughly the same price. I know the 5L is going to be alot more work, but is it worth that work? There are plenty more power upgrade options for the 302 and they are much cheaper. What's everyone's insight?

89934runr · 11-03-2007, 11:22 PM

First off- you need to be realistic about what power levels you WANT, and what your truck can handle. Sure- a 5.0 has alot more available for it, but what good is a 347 w/450 hp if it spends it's life down at 2-3K rpm all day?

Just for comparison, I dyno'd my supercharged 3.4 that has a few additional power-parts, 252 rwhp first time out, with a bad coil! I then replaced the coil, and refined the A/F ratio a bit more- bam! 306 rwhp, on a stock pulley. I went this route because there was very litte fab needed, and I didn't lose any of the rest of the vehicle's functionality- and I like OBD II diagnostics.

Either way- good luck!

infiltrator · 11-03-2007, 11:33 PM

wow, he just owned this thread up...

Greg_Canada · 11-04-2007, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89934runr

First off- you need to be realistic about what power levels you WANT, and what your truck can handle. Sure- a 5.0 has alot more available for it, but what good is a 347 w/450 hp if it spends it's life down at 2-3K rpm all day?

Just for comparison, I dyno'd my supercharged 3.4 that has a few additional power-parts, 252 rwhp first time out, with a bad coil! I then replaced the coil, and refined the A/F ratio a bit more- bam! 306 rwhp, on a stock pulley. I went this route because there was very litte fab needed, and I didn't lose any of the rest of the vehicle's functionality- and I like OBD II diagnostics.

Either way- good luck!

I'd love to see this 305rwhp on a stock pulley on a 4x4... i think it's corrected flywheel numbers, as there is no way you can hit 300+ whp on a s/c 3.4 without MANY mods... (trdoldman is the only person to do it without nitrous) and he had a tiny pulley, water injection, headers, etc.
im not badmouthing your set up (hell i want one) but 300+rwhp just isnt going to happen with a 3.4 without many mods...

idanity · 11-04-2007, 05:26 PM

theres a big difference from 300hp at the crank to 300hp at the wheels.

either way, a finely tuned s.c. engine (with perhaps an upgraded turbo) can easily attain 300hp at the crank.
_+ he did say "my supercharged 3.4 that has a few additional power-parts"

but back to the thread.
at any rate, i would consider the maintenance costs w/the 2 different engines.

long run, what will be more cost effective (considering the fuel crisis)?
im interested in this thread also. to see who/how others have done.

Tacoma750 · 11-04-2007, 05:37 PM

Look into a buick 3.8L. YOu can get them factory supercharged. Its lighter than the 5.0, so you'll have better power to weight ratio. AA sells the adapters BTW

Kiff · 11-04-2007, 05:38 PM

Both seem to be very reliable motors. The supercharged 3.4 may close the power gap on the 5L but then reliability comes into play, having to run premium ect. Also, normally domestic parts are cheaper than import.

On the other side there is the ease of installation, no need for adapter plates, new motor mounts, gauges, alternators, ect.

I dont need the 300hp, but a local guy that is running a 5L says he gets better mileage now compared to his 3.0 because the motor does not need to work as hard to push his rig. I can see that statement being true, also the V8 has the torque curve starting lower.

roundhouse · 11-04-2007, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89934runr

ery litte fab needed, and I didn't lose any of the rest of the vehicle's functionality- and I like OBD II diagnostics.

Either way- good luck!

The obd stuff works on Fords too. The 88-91 Ford is a stand alone computer.

Oil is going to break $100 a bbl very soon. meaning $3.40 to $3.60 a gal or therebouts depending on where you live.

89934runr · 11-04-2007, 06:03 PM

1. I didn't mean to 'own' anything; I'm obviously biased toward the 3.4 having done my own rig that way. I also strive to keep things lighter when I can. It's the same reason why I put a turbocharged 4.2 Trailblazer engine in my 68 Firebird.

2. Sorry if you don't like the #s, but it's a reality. Stock longblock- SC, 325cc injectors, Walbro 190 FP, Supra MAF, modified Downey headers, stock pulley pushing 6-7psi, my own intake tube, FTC-1, IK22's, Innovative WB for tuning, 3" exhaust, Snow water injection. This through a MC clutch, a fresh R151F, 4.56 (w/ synth) gears, on 31" tires. Wait till my purpose-built block & heads go in! If it helps you at all- I do beta testing for some of the aftermarket EFI systems, so I kinda know what I'm doing.

3. Yep- yer right, MANY 5.0's are OBD II; if he swaps over the ECM. My bad- most of the swaps I see are carbureted or TBI setups.

Jeff

PS- GREG_CANADA, that is a sweet 89; I miss mine...

bigarms23 · 11-04-2007, 06:08 PM

I would run a chevy 4.3v6 it the most common swap the second is 3.4supercharged toyota v6 and besides there are more chevy parts than ford

notanymore · 11-05-2007, 01:02 AM

think about how much fun having a v8 in your toyota will be. the 3.4 will be more reliable, but the 5.0 is a much more common engine, if i ever have the $$ to spare i would want to do a 5.0 swap, all that torque of the v8 just makes me drool

unless you want to keep it toyota you might as well go for the v8 if your going to go through all the trouble to do the swap. i dont know about gas mileage and how that will come out but i never thought of my truck as an economical ride, but thats why i got a bike

stormin94 · 11-05-2007, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roundhouse

The obd stuff works on Fords too. The 88-91 Ford is a stand alone computer.

Oil is going to break $100 a bbl very soon. meaning $3.40 to $3.60 a gal or therebouts depending on where you live.

Closer to $4.00 for those of us lucky Californians.....

But as for your engine dilemma, I'd recommend a Buick 3.8. They are light, very reliable motors, and have a very nice, and usable powerband. They are also nice because some of them are factory supercharged, and the engines can be had pretty inexpensively, in quite a few cases, under $1000 for a used one. But that's if you know where to look, and where you live, too.

Greg_Canada · 11-05-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89934runr

1. I didn't mean to 'own' anything; I'm obviously biased toward the 3.4 having done my own rig that way. I also strive to keep things lighter when I can. It's the same reason why I put a turbocharged 4.2 Trailblazer engine in my 68 Firebird.

2. Sorry if you don't like the #s, but it's a reality. Stock longblock- SC, 325cc injectors, Walbro 190 FP, Supra MAF, modified Downey headers, stock pulley pushing 6-7psi, my own intake tube, FTC-1, IK22's, Innovative WB for tuning, 3" exhaust, Snow water injection. This through a MC clutch, a fresh R151F, 4.56 (w/ synth) gears, on 31" tires. Wait till my purpose-built block & heads go in! If it helps you at all- I do beta testing for some of the aftermarket EFI systems, so I kinda know what I'm doing.

3. Yep- yer right, MANY 5.0's are OBD II; if he swaps over the ECM. My bad- most of the swaps I see are carbureted or TBI setups.

Jeff

PS- GREG_CANADA, that is a sweet 89; I miss mine...

Ok NOW i believe you can be hitting high 200's (id still love to see your dyno chart for it) but that is quite a few more mods than "just a stock pulley)

I've been thinking of a blown 5vzfe for awhile.. .still deciding on a custom turbo or the trd blower... what do you think? i dont need this thing in the 12's.. but a mid 14 second truck with 33's would be killer... (considering its a high 17 mid 18 now)...
btw thanks on teh truck.. i have the bumper painted and lights on it now....
http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/Greg_Canada/ look here for more pics if you'd like.
How tough was the 5vzfe supercharged swap? did you use the ORS harness?

mt_goat · 11-05-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89934runr

Just for comparison, I dyno'd my supercharged 3.4 that has a few additional power-parts, 252 rwhp first time out, with a bad coil! I then replaced the coil, and refined the A/F ratio a bit more- bam! 306 rwhp, on a stock pulley...

Wow, that is impressive.

What was the A/F ratio running at for that?

Greg_Canada · 11-05-2007, 12:24 PM

You ever dyno yours MT?

Whats your acceleration like compared to the 3.slow? (like what car would you compare it with)
i prettymuch want a sweet 25-70mph accel... highway onramps... my buddys jetta vr6 pulls nice.. .i'd be happy with mine like that...

mt_goat · 11-05-2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg_Canada

You ever dyno yours MT?

Whats your acceleration like compared to the 3.slow? (like what car would you compare it with)
i prettymuch want a sweet 25-70mph accel... highway onramps... my buddys jetta vr6 pulls nice.. .i'd be happy with mine like that...

No dyno on mine, but it runs like a bat out of hell. I guess I'd compare it to my BMW 328i (2.8 L I6 with true dual exhaust). No comparision at all to the 3.slow.

I know TRDOLMAN had dyno numbers over 300 RWHP on his 5VZFE but he told me that was with a 2.0" pulley. He also was running no cats, headers and IIRC he was running a little on the lean side too (like around 13).

elripster · 11-05-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiff

So I am at a cross roads on what to do with the motor in my truck. Both engines can be had for roughly the same price. I know the 5L is going to be alot more work, but is it worth that work? There are plenty more power upgrade options for the 302 and they are much cheaper. What's everyone's insight?

What type of driving/wheeling do you want to do with this truck?

You might hit up www.rockstomper.com. Scott Ellinger had a 5.0 in his truck years back. It had it's good and bad points. Weight is one of the bigger bad points. It breaks stuff on the trail especially when combined with all the added torque.

I would take a "systems level" approach to selecting your engine. If you don't wheel hard, well you can get away with more engine Vs. breakage. If you do, you might find you are now stressing, or example, steering parts and end up rebuilding and reinforcing a lot more of your truck then you would if you went with a lighter engine.

Frank

elripster · 11-05-2007, 04:26 PM

Read this article...http://toyota.off-road.com/toyota/ar....jsp?id=305949

It will show you a lot about what you might encounter with V8 power under the hood.

Frank

mt_goat · 11-05-2007, 04:40 PM

That's a bad link Frank, I think it has too many https.

In addition to the weight I wouldn't like the extra size. Seems to be a very tight sqeeze to get a V8 in there and still have room for a radiator and fan.

11-03-2007, 11:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
infiltrator Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Valencia, California Posts: 1,291	wow, he just owned this thread up... __________________ Old Rig: '95 4runner \| White \| ISR \| 193,000mi. \| Totalled.

11-04-2007, 05:26 PM	#5 (permalink)
idanity Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: seattle WA Posts: 383	theres a big difference from 300hp at the crank to 300hp at the wheels. either way, a finely tuned s.c. engine (with perhaps an upgraded turbo) can easily attain 300hp at the crank. _+ he did say "my supercharged 3.4 that has a few additional power-parts" but back to the thread. at any rate, i would consider the maintenance costs w/the 2 different engines. long run, what will be more cost effective (considering the fuel crisis)? im interested in this thread also. to see who/how others have done. Last edited by idanity : 11-04-2007 at 05:28 PM.

11-04-2007, 05:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tacoma750 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,241	Look into a buick 3.8L. YOu can get them factory supercharged. Its lighter than the 5.0, so you'll have better power to weight ratio. AA sells the adapters BTW __________________ 86 Ext. Cab Pickup 7 inches of lift/36 inch Wild Countrys Buick 3800 V6. Performance intake manifold,holley carb,Cam,headers,MSD ignition,dual exhaust

11-04-2007, 06:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
89934runr Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 272	1. I didn't mean to 'own' anything; I'm obviously biased toward the 3.4 having done my own rig that way. I also strive to keep things lighter when I can. It's the same reason why I put a turbocharged 4.2 Trailblazer engine in my 68 Firebird. 2. Sorry if you don't like the #s, but it's a reality. Stock longblock- SC, 325cc injectors, Walbro 190 FP, Supra MAF, modified Downey headers, stock pulley pushing 6-7psi, my own intake tube, FTC-1, IK22's, Innovative WB for tuning, 3" exhaust, Snow water injection. This through a MC clutch, a fresh R151F, 4.56 (w/ synth) gears, on 31" tires. Wait till my purpose-built block & heads go in! If it helps you at all- I do beta testing for some of the aftermarket EFI systems, so I kinda know what I'm doing. 3. Yep- yer right, MANY 5.0's are OBD II; if he swaps over the ECM. My bad- most of the swaps I see are carbureted or TBI setups. Jeff PS- GREG_CANADA, that is a sweet 89; I miss mine... Last edited by 89934runr : 11-04-2007 at 06:06 PM.

11-04-2007, 06:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
bigarms23 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: mountains of truckee ca Posts: 805	I would run a chevy 4.3v6 it the most common swap the second is 3.4supercharged toyota v6 and besides there are more chevy parts than ford __________________ 1988sr5v6 4runner with chevy axles 513 gears dual cases overall 300to1 ratio 36mtzs 5inch lift detroits 1988sr5v6 4runner with a 4inch allpro longtravel sas with detroit rear a ls in front and 33s 1985 sr5 4runner 8inch lift 39.5 boggers 529s detroits front and rear and triple transfer cases with a final crawl ratio of 2828to 1(sold)

11-03-2007, 11:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
89934runr Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 272	First off- you need to be realistic about what power levels you WANT, and what your truck can handle. Sure- a 5.0 has alot more available for it, but what good is a 347 w/450 hp if it spends it's life down at 2-3K rpm all day? Just for comparison, I dyno'd my supercharged 3.4 that has a few additional power-parts, 252 rwhp first time out, with a bad coil! I then replaced the coil, and refined the A/F ratio a bit more- bam! 306 rwhp, on a stock pulley. I went this route because there was very litte fab needed, and I didn't lose any of the rest of the vehicle's functionality- and I like OBD II diagnostics. Either way- good luck!

11-05-2007, 01:02 AM	#11 (permalink)
notanymore Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Wenatchee WA Posts: 958	think about how much fun having a v8 in your toyota will be. the 3.4 will be more reliable, but the 5.0 is a much more common engine, if i ever have the $$ to spare i would want to do a 5.0 swap, all that torque of the v8 just makes me drool unless you want to keep it toyota you might as well go for the v8 if your going to go through all the trouble to do the swap. i dont know about gas mileage and how that will come out but i never thought of my truck as an economical ride, but thats why i got a bike __________________ my truck: 1987 pickup xtra cab sr5 22re 5 speed 4wd, 31x10.5's eb 261c cam, lce header, 2.25 exhaust. other ride: 1980 Honda CX500-

11-05-2007, 12:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
Greg_Canada Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 754	You ever dyno yours MT? Whats your acceleration like compared to the 3.slow? (like what car would you compare it with) i prettymuch want a sweet 25-70mph accel... highway onramps... my buddys jetta vr6 pulls nice.. .i'd be happy with mine like that... __________________ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/1147271/1 My 1989 Toyota 4runner

11-05-2007, 04:26 PM	#18 (permalink)
elripster Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Plainfield, IL Posts: 1,295	Read this article...http://toyota.off-road.com/toyota/ar....jsp?id=305949 It will show you a lot about what you might encounter with V8 power under the hood. Frank __________________ 1994 4runner, 3.0, auto, 5.71's, Truetrac (rear), 33's, BJ spacers, Coil spacers, air shocks, D-ring anchors, 4Crawler F/R swaybar discos, Marlin rear bumper. www.sdori.com Last edited by elripster : 11-05-2007 at 04:54 PM.

11-05-2007, 04:40 PM	#19 (permalink)
mt_goat Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oklahoma State Posts: 7,428	That's a bad link Frank, I think it has too many https. In addition to the weight I wouldn't like the extra size. Seems to be a very tight sqeeze to get a V8 in there and still have room for a radiator and fan. __________________ Dale "America is in a hole and it's getting deeper every day. We import 70% of our oil at a cost of $700 billion a year - four times the annual cost of the Iraq war." T. Boone Pickens Check out the plan: http://www.pickensplan.com/index.php and http://www.cngnow.com/EN-US/Pages/default.aspx