mxdw88

Hey guys,

My '87 runner has been giving me some starting issues. Sometimes when I go to start it, it won't turn over right away. After several turns on the ignition (and a few choice words!) it will finally crank. This only happened every once in awhile but has since become more frequent. The other day when starting it, the starter kept cranking even after I turned the key off :think. I know these old trucks frequently have starter contact issues but I was wondering if anyone thinks this is more of a ignition issue or a starter one? Also when it does crank it's not slow like the starter brushes are seizing so I dunno? Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks!

RAD4Runner

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199.../#post51947533

mxdw88

awesome thanks! thinking its the contacts then!

RAD4Runner

Most welcome.

When problem occurs, try starting. Listen and feel. Starter relay should click and solenoid should also click.

Theoretically,

When solenoid plunger actuates it tries to do two things:
1) Close heavy contacts to send power to turn starter motor, and
2) Move clutch that will engage starter gear with flywheel.

If solenoid attempts to actuate but starter motor does not crank, contacts may not be closing because:
1) Not enough current to move plunger, OR
2) There is enough current but plunger is stuck

If (1) see wiring flaw explained on my thread/signature


Practically,
Your symptoms seem to point to stuck plunger.
a) takes several tries before it cranks, AND
b) "kept cranking even after I turned the key off"
Both combined suggests that there is mechanical restriction. Therefore, sometimes plunger does not move far enough to close contacts, but sometimes when it closes contacts it does not retract to open contacts after you have released the key.

mxdw88

Yeah that sounds about right because sometimes when it would crank but not start right away I would turn off the ignition and then go to start it again and it would grind like when you try to start a car that's already running. Do I just need a new starter then?

mxdw88

Or can just the plunger be replaced?

RAD4Runner

I haven't tried rebuilding a starter or solenoid but that can be done. If you have time, try to see what's causing plunger to get stuck. You would also see condition of contacts that probably need replacement as well. 4Crawler has info on his website.

Even after you have fixed the plunger problem, I still recommend you fix the wiring flaw I mentioned. Because it is a real problem. That is not the way to wire a relay to carry load current. If not fixed, it's only a matter of time before you fry your ignition switch which is harder to remove and replace than the work required to fix the flaw (on my sig).

RAD

Scirocco16v

similar problem on mine IMO, would start up.. drive down the road to get gas & then wouldn't start. then just waiting 3 minutes.. started right back up (sometimes on the 2nd crank). when I replaced the starter, the OEM one was in sorry shape and had a melted blob of something on the block side of the starter.
Starts like a champ now!

RAD4Runner

Scirocco16v, You got a first-gen 22RE as well?
Still need to check for wiring flaw and correct it. Wiring flaw causes lower power to energize solenoid and actuate plunger. Good, starters whose solenoid plungers move smoothly allow that weak current to move plunger, masking the problem - like plastic surgery does on a hideous person. When plunger gets hard to move, problem is revealed, like it did in your trucks.

Scirocco16v

have an '89 22re PU 4x4. not up to speed on my Yota gen`s. In my case I knew it was the starter as I had already re-wired the engine bay over the summer, just down to brass tacks with most my systems.

RAD4Runner

Cool to know.

j2the-e

If it's grinding, I would replace it. The bendix is going bad or the teeth are worn. Unrelated to plunger and contacts. 22r reman starter from the dealer is surprisingly cheap. Under $100. Hopefully you haven't damaged the flywheel. You also need to fix the flawed wiring if you haven't already done so.

Good write-up Rad. I wish I had seen that before I added a second relay to my truck. I never even thought about simply running a new power supply to the existing relay.

RAD4Runner

Thanks, j2the-e. Yeah simple. Just find that thick black wire, connect to fused battery Happy New Year.

mxdw88

Hopefully its not the actual starter and just a power issue vs. a mechanical one but we will see. Good to hear starters are not too bad though! My dad (who just recently popped his Toyota cherry and got his hands on a '97 tacoma 3.4l!) and I will be diving into this tomorrow. Priority #1 will be replacing my brake calipers which are leaking around the pistons and after that is done we will dive into some starter diag. and then hopefully see the Ravens beat Denver!!

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Followed RADs advice on the starter relay and what a difference. Taking the starter plunger out and giving it a good cleaning is a real easy job and would probably make just as much of a difference.

mxdw88

ok will do! and will prob replace contacts as well while in there!...Also flywheel should be fine considering just had a new tranny put in about 5,000 mile ago and everything was in good shape then (issue has only happened a handful of times; a few before and a few after it was replaced).

j2the-e

I just pulled my starter because it was grinding, probably every 3rd time starting. I completely disassembled it and lubed the idler gear and the bendix bearing. Haven't had the grinding since. I had already replaced the contacts and plunger and added an external solenoid a year ago.
I like your sig! I have in the past few years converted my family as well! Dad has an 02 4runner, brother has a 99 Taco and I'm on my 3rd 1st gen 4runner. Only problem now is I have to work on all of them! At least they don't need much. Just routine maintenance.

mxdw88

Thanks man, yeah it's fun to work on them and learn together with my bro and dad! We take them hunting together too! Nothing brings family together like toyotas! lol We scowered Craigslist for months to find my dads truck! (Stories like that are what Toyota should use for its commercials!) but anyways, How hard/expensive was it for you to replace your plunger?

j2the-e

Don't remember the cost, I think $30 or so. It was easy, has to come out when you do the contacts anyway.
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...OnlineOrdering

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)