WOW, Toyota coolant is pricey!
07-02-2010, 10:34 AM
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WOW, Toyota coolant is pricey!
Rode out to Heyward Allen Toyota in Athens this morning, and $71.52 later I had 2 gallons of coolant and 2 oil filters. OUCH!!
That red dye they use must be made of gold, we used to sell the blue genuine Honda coolant for $17/gallon and I thought that was high!
That red dye they use must be made of gold, we used to sell the blue genuine Honda coolant for $17/gallon and I thought that was high!
07-02-2010, 07:43 PM
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Is it really a big deal? How long will that coolant be in your truck? 30k miles, 60k miles? Did you buy the Toyota coolant because you knew it was the best to get?
Wabfab, $14 is pretty close to cost. You are getting a wholesale discount.
Wabfab, $14 is pretty close to cost. You are getting a wholesale discount.
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07-02-2010, 07:54 PM
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Here is a quote from SB5Walker that can be found in this Thread
"RED, GREEN, ORANGE, YELLOW OR PINK? A COOLANT PRIMER
All commonly-available antifreezes are based on ethylene glycol; it's the corrosion inhibitor chemistry that is different and potentially incompatible.
Prior to the late eighties, all coolants supplied in factory pre-fills and available over the counter used conventional inorganic chemistry to inhibit corrosion. Japanese coolants used phosphates, the green stuff (Prestone) used (and still uses) silicates. Both are inorganic chemistries, but they are incompatible with each other and with other coolant types. Phosphates did well with iron, and okay with aluminum, and with copper/brass/lead radiators and heater cores. Silicates (prestone green) are particularly good with aluminum, not as good with iron, and do fine with copper/brass/lead. They are slightly abrasive, and are slightly more likely than phosphates to cause leaks in water pump seals. European carmakers prefer silicates.
There are a couple problems with inorganic corrosion inhibitors. The first is that their ability to buffer (neutralize the acids formed by the breakdown of the ethylene glycol antifreeze) is limited to about 2 years/30k miles. If you allow them to remain in the coolant loop after they have lost their buffering capacity (called "reserve alkalinity"), the coolant will turn acidic and severe corrosion will result. This is what happened with my 3VZE.
The other problem with phosphates and silicates is that mixing with the minerals in tap water or with a different coolant type will cause the phosphates or silicates to precipitate out and clog radiator passages, while at the same time your corrosion protection goes bye-bye.
Because of the problems with straight conventional inorganic corrosion inhibitors, and because of a law passed in Norway in 1987 banning amine, Japanese carmakers were forced to come up with a different coolant. The result was a new coolant type that uses an innovative non-amine anti-corrosion chemistry that combines an organic acid (sodium benzoate) with sodium hydroxide, an inorganic chemical. So, in a sense, these coolants may be considered the first "HOAT"-type coolants: hybrid organic acid technology (more on that later). Toyota Red ("Long Life Coolant") and Subaru's "Long Life Coolant" are two products that use the new chemistry. If you are a geek like me and are interested in the process the Japanese chemical engineers used to develop the new type coolant, here is an interesting in-depth article published in 2002 by Komatsu, a maker of construction equipment: http://www.komatsu.com/CompanyInfo/p...f/149-02_E.pdf
The Japanese Long Life coolants are vastly superior to the old conventional coolants (including Prestone green) at preventing iron corrosion. They also maintain their corrosion protection for significantly longer than conventional coolants, but to be on the safe side, Toyota still recommends changing Toyota Red every two years/30,000 miles. If you run a little over, unlike with Prestone, your engine will not immediately begin to corrode.
Because of their unique chemistry, it is very important never to mix the Japanese "Long Life" coolants with a different coolant type - they will react harmfully, destroying the corrosion protection. You also should never use any coolant additives, because they also will react harmfully with the coolant chemistry. Anyway, there is no need to use additives because Toyota Red is an excellent, well-balanced coolant.
Meanwhile, in the U.S. and Europe, a different type of coolant was developed that was based on organic acids (so-called OAT types), such as Dexcool. (Most OATs are reddish orange.) These are a bad choice for older vehicles because they will corrode copper/brass/lead radiators, and because the OATs react very strongly and harmfully with other coolant types.
In an attempt to address that issue, the antifreeze companies developed a new type called "Hybrid Organic Acid Technology" (HOAT). Those include your Prestone yellow and Zerex G-05 (also yellow). As mentioned, these are similar to Toyota Red (and Subaru Long Life Coolant) in that they combine an organic acid (different from the one used in Dexcool) with inorganic inhibitors. Also, Toyota came up with a new HOAT-type coolant: the new premixed Toyota Pink. That uses sebacic acid, an OAT-type organic acid, rather than the sodium benzoate used in Toyota Red. (Actually Zerex G-05 also uses sodium benzoate, but uses a different inorganic inhibitor.) Confused yet?
Originally, antifreeze makers claimed HOATs could be mixed with any coolant, but those claims have been refuted by evidence that HOATs react badly with OATs. Some of them may mix okay with silicate-based products, but I would bet all HOATs except Toyota Pink would react harmfully with Toyota Red. Basically, you should never mix different coolant types - it's playing with fire.
As far as using HOATs, you have to be careful. Toyota Red is great, but the OAT-type organic acids used in Prestone Yellow and Toyota Pink have the drawback of the OAT coolants: they corrode the lead solder in brass/copper radiators and heater cores. So you don't want to use them in an older vehicle such as ours. Both the OATs and most of the HOATs were designed for aluminum rads & heater cores. It is possible to find aluminum radiators for our trucks, but I've never seen an aluminum replacement heater core."
The TOYOTA coolant is much better, which shouldn't be a shocker. Toyota uses their coolant for a reason, just like OEM toyota parts are better than your over the counter replacement parts.
But yes, I do have someone that likes me at a privately owned toyota shop, so I have the luxury of buying close to cost.
Will you're truck explode if you use prestone? No not all, but be aware of the drawbacks involved with using prestone. If the coolant is changed every 30k, you shouldn't notice a problem. The toyota coolant lasts much longer and provides better iron protection, so I guess its just one of those things you can pay a little extra for now and save some $$ in the long run.
"RED, GREEN, ORANGE, YELLOW OR PINK? A COOLANT PRIMER
All commonly-available antifreezes are based on ethylene glycol; it's the corrosion inhibitor chemistry that is different and potentially incompatible.
Prior to the late eighties, all coolants supplied in factory pre-fills and available over the counter used conventional inorganic chemistry to inhibit corrosion. Japanese coolants used phosphates, the green stuff (Prestone) used (and still uses) silicates. Both are inorganic chemistries, but they are incompatible with each other and with other coolant types. Phosphates did well with iron, and okay with aluminum, and with copper/brass/lead radiators and heater cores. Silicates (prestone green) are particularly good with aluminum, not as good with iron, and do fine with copper/brass/lead. They are slightly abrasive, and are slightly more likely than phosphates to cause leaks in water pump seals. European carmakers prefer silicates.
There are a couple problems with inorganic corrosion inhibitors. The first is that their ability to buffer (neutralize the acids formed by the breakdown of the ethylene glycol antifreeze) is limited to about 2 years/30k miles. If you allow them to remain in the coolant loop after they have lost their buffering capacity (called "reserve alkalinity"), the coolant will turn acidic and severe corrosion will result. This is what happened with my 3VZE.
The other problem with phosphates and silicates is that mixing with the minerals in tap water or with a different coolant type will cause the phosphates or silicates to precipitate out and clog radiator passages, while at the same time your corrosion protection goes bye-bye.
Because of the problems with straight conventional inorganic corrosion inhibitors, and because of a law passed in Norway in 1987 banning amine, Japanese carmakers were forced to come up with a different coolant. The result was a new coolant type that uses an innovative non-amine anti-corrosion chemistry that combines an organic acid (sodium benzoate) with sodium hydroxide, an inorganic chemical. So, in a sense, these coolants may be considered the first "HOAT"-type coolants: hybrid organic acid technology (more on that later). Toyota Red ("Long Life Coolant") and Subaru's "Long Life Coolant" are two products that use the new chemistry. If you are a geek like me and are interested in the process the Japanese chemical engineers used to develop the new type coolant, here is an interesting in-depth article published in 2002 by Komatsu, a maker of construction equipment: http://www.komatsu.com/CompanyInfo/p...f/149-02_E.pdf
The Japanese Long Life coolants are vastly superior to the old conventional coolants (including Prestone green) at preventing iron corrosion. They also maintain their corrosion protection for significantly longer than conventional coolants, but to be on the safe side, Toyota still recommends changing Toyota Red every two years/30,000 miles. If you run a little over, unlike with Prestone, your engine will not immediately begin to corrode.
Because of their unique chemistry, it is very important never to mix the Japanese "Long Life" coolants with a different coolant type - they will react harmfully, destroying the corrosion protection. You also should never use any coolant additives, because they also will react harmfully with the coolant chemistry. Anyway, there is no need to use additives because Toyota Red is an excellent, well-balanced coolant.
Meanwhile, in the U.S. and Europe, a different type of coolant was developed that was based on organic acids (so-called OAT types), such as Dexcool. (Most OATs are reddish orange.) These are a bad choice for older vehicles because they will corrode copper/brass/lead radiators, and because the OATs react very strongly and harmfully with other coolant types.
In an attempt to address that issue, the antifreeze companies developed a new type called "Hybrid Organic Acid Technology" (HOAT). Those include your Prestone yellow and Zerex G-05 (also yellow). As mentioned, these are similar to Toyota Red (and Subaru Long Life Coolant) in that they combine an organic acid (different from the one used in Dexcool) with inorganic inhibitors. Also, Toyota came up with a new HOAT-type coolant: the new premixed Toyota Pink. That uses sebacic acid, an OAT-type organic acid, rather than the sodium benzoate used in Toyota Red. (Actually Zerex G-05 also uses sodium benzoate, but uses a different inorganic inhibitor.) Confused yet?
Originally, antifreeze makers claimed HOATs could be mixed with any coolant, but those claims have been refuted by evidence that HOATs react badly with OATs. Some of them may mix okay with silicate-based products, but I would bet all HOATs except Toyota Pink would react harmfully with Toyota Red. Basically, you should never mix different coolant types - it's playing with fire.
As far as using HOATs, you have to be careful. Toyota Red is great, but the OAT-type organic acids used in Prestone Yellow and Toyota Pink have the drawback of the OAT coolants: they corrode the lead solder in brass/copper radiators and heater cores. So you don't want to use them in an older vehicle such as ours. Both the OATs and most of the HOATs were designed for aluminum rads & heater cores. It is possible to find aluminum radiators for our trucks, but I've never seen an aluminum replacement heater core."
The TOYOTA coolant is much better, which shouldn't be a shocker. Toyota uses their coolant for a reason, just like OEM toyota parts are better than your over the counter replacement parts.
But yes, I do have someone that likes me at a privately owned toyota shop, so I have the luxury of buying close to cost.
Will you're truck explode if you use prestone? No not all, but be aware of the drawbacks involved with using prestone. If the coolant is changed every 30k, you shouldn't notice a problem. The toyota coolant lasts much longer and provides better iron protection, so I guess its just one of those things you can pay a little extra for now and save some $$ in the long run.
07-03-2010, 07:09 AM
#10
Contributing Member
Personally, flushing the green stuff every couple of years is MUCH easier and MUCH cheaper than what I have gone through with the "extended life" coolants. If I have a problem on the trail, I know I stand a much better chance of finding green, and I can use regular water if I have to (knowing of course, that a drain/fill will be required when I get home).
Also, mine already had green in it. If the article above makes you think you want to change coolant types, be sure to flush EVERY LAST DROP of the old coolant out, first with regular water, then following up with a "quick rinse" with distilled before filling up with the new coolant.
I know it sounds like I'm paranoid, but it's really not that much extra work, and the consequence of not doing it is (potentially) A LOT of work and expense.
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