brian2sun

I gotta disagree with you, but that's ok. I had bad experience after bad experience with 4WP to the point that I will never ever go back. Obviously that's not the case with you, but I have zero respect for their "techs". If you've had good luck with them, then maybe you have a rare store that actually hires good mechanics by you.

And yes, the DB lifts make more wheel well room for bigger tires. But they make that extra room going in the opposite direction - towards the ground. Then when you put bigger tires on they only raise it back so the lowest point (front diff/crossmember) is at about the same clearance as it was originally. The groud clearance (aka lowest point) came from the tires (like a solid axle), not the DB "lift".

I agree that the rest of the truck gains clerance but I have seen quite a few DB lifted trucks on 35s catch rocks on their crossmembers and get hung up. And in those same spots, often I can make it over without scraping at all with just a 3" coil/shock lift and 33s. Plus the uneccessary higher center of gravity is another reason I don't dig on them. If I wanted to step up to 35s with my setup, there would be no contest IMO. I'd have more clearance in the front, the same clearance for my rear diff. I'd have just a little less belly clearance, but since skids take care of that issue and the trade off is a better COG, there's no question what I would prefer - especially when the price of my lift is a fraction of a DB lift, I can return it to stock in an hour or 2, and I wouldn't have to try to sell the leaf springs for the back of a Taco because I don't know of any DB lifts that are actually made for 4runners.

brian2sun

And for the record, I think you are one of the most helpful and knowledgeable people on this forum mt_goat, I just have a different opinion on DB lifts.

xxxtreme22r

Brian's right with the BJ spacer in there the geometry changes and it pushing the diff/crossmember up. This is why alot of the time if your trying to get 2.5" out of the BJ spacer lift / TB crank you have to add the diff drop spacers to help with CV angles.

With the bracket lift CV angles do not change.

mt_goat

I haven't used any of their techs since 96, they are just a retailer to me. I do my own wrenching now. Yeah tech quality is going to vary from place to place.

This is where you're going wrong, nothing is lowered relative to the ground. They make that extra room by raising the whole frame, engine, tranny and tranny crossmember off the ground just like leaf springs do with a SA.

Of course I recommend ditching the rear lift blocks and lift the rear with a better spring pack. I use Alcan springs to lift the rear:

xxxtreme22r

a bracket lift does not lift or lower the cross-members relative to the ground. The clearance stays the same as with the original location.

A bracket lift lowers the cross-member thus the diff relative to the frame. Whereas a BJ lift raises the cross-member thus the diff relative to the LCA.

With the same size tires you put a 4" bracket lift next to a BJ lifted truck the BJ lifted truck's front cross-member is gonna be higher.

Think of it this way a bracket lift pushes the cross-member down towards the ground since the cross-member has nowhere to go because of the tires it stays put and the truck goes up. A BJ lift causes the LCA's to push up on the cross-member and since there is nothing in it's way the cross-member and the truck is pushed up.

With that said if you look closely a bracket lifts track width is actually wider than a BJ lift as well. Don't know how much, but it's visible. Can't me more than a half inch though.

mt_goat

In other words the bracket lift allows you to lift without changing the CV angles from the factory settings. A ball joint (BJ) lift can place the CV angles to an extreme. Of course that doesn't mean that you can't do both together, a bracket lift and set your CV angles to an extreme.

Setting the CV angles to extreme can mean more broken CVs.

I think the designer of the current BJ spacers on the market (Frank@SDORI http://www.sdori.com/SDORI_Products.html ) would agree that he originally made them for the purpose of allowing people to uncrank their torsion bar lifts and improve ride and flex. Not to lift, at least not much. That's the reason I run them.

Maybe a pic will help, BJ spacers (now used mainly to relax the t-bar adjustment) and a bracket lift. In this pic the CV angle is a little too much IMHO (note limit straps are almost tight sitting on the ground):

mt_goat

That kit wouldn't be my first choice because it uses lift blocks in the rear, you could just trash them and buy a good spring pack but then you're paying for some stuff you don't want.

Also it doesn't list the compression struts (kickers) which are very important, it shows them in the pic though...check on that. They are structural braces for the rear half of the front drop bracket shown in illustration #11 here: http://www.procompusa.com/downloads/PDFs/is/57289.pdf Don't wheel without them!

You also need the optional skid plate, don't wheel without it either! It looks like a skid plate but it really is a structural brace for the front half of the drop bracket.

I would probably also do a little welding where the drop bracket bolts together.

Definitely get rid of the 4" body lift, if you really have one that high. I don't like to go more than 1" myself.

EDIT: after looking at the Pro Comp site I don't see any kits that use a new rear spring pack, even if they did I wouldn't know how good they'd be.

I really like the Pro Comp compression strut design, its the best I've seen because they support all the way to the end of the bracket where the cam adjusters are. I'm probably going to fab up a better set for my Superlift (SL) kit. The SL kits are better in one area though, the drop bracket crossmembers are all one piece. And it appears SL does have a kit with a rear spring pack option: http://www.superlift.com/Catalog.asp?P=K306&V=318

I've had my SL kit on since 96, but they don't make the same kit anymore. They have always given me good service. I've ordered new bushings several times from them. Once I had a part break and they sent me a new one (re-designed to be stronger) under the lifetime warranty. There was another part that wore out they couldn''t replace though because they quit making the kit I have, so that was a PITA, I had to fab up the part from scratch.

JamesD

AKYota92, this is exactly what I did and I was trying to explain. This setup works great.

James

AKYota92

Ok, I get it now. Where could I order a set of BJ spacers? Cause I noticed summit didn't have any. I'm assuming 4WP and any other offroad site will do. And if I do the susp lift and BJ spacers will my CVs still be at an extreme? If so how could I change that without taking out the BJ spacers?

mt_goat

You can get BJ spacers here: http://www.sdori.com/SDORI_Products.html

and here: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/ProductLine.shtml

and I think WabFab has them too, EDIT hmmm, maybe not I don't see them: http://www.wabfab.org/

They are all made by SDORI just different retailers.

Only if you adjust them that way, you just adjust the torsion bars: http://www.off-road.com/trucks-4x4/t...ent-19258.html

AKYota92

Also, what exactly are limit straps? Just a seatbelt basically that you bolt on to the lower shock mount then somewhere up near the top of the shock? I'll assume they just limit your suspension dropping to much?

xxxtreme22r

Limit straps are used for a few reasons, not always all of them at once. but yes limit your downward travel. Sometimes to protect too short of a shock stroke and the shock from bottoming out. Another reason is on some huge travel systems the driveshafts may not be long enough and separate on full droop. I am sure there are other reasons I cannot thin of right now.

mt_goat

Yeah some kits use limit straps as a bump stop replacement, others don't.

mt_goat

Here's a great example of CV angles set too extreme. Its on a Taco so it has coil-overs but a prefect example of what not to do with CV angles. Note one CV boot is torn already: