zieg9479

I searched. Am still not sure what to do so please see below

I drove to Denver in my new to me 86 toyota p/u with a 22r, got back and noticed oil everywhere but where it should be. Including on, yes on top, of the airbox (not my photo but its for reference). Not too much oil inside, but the K&N air filter has a black ring on it indicating exposure. I noticed oil inside the HAC filter well. I also have oil leaks and have repaired one of them (front main)

Before I replaced the oil pan gasket, I wanted to know if I was experiencing blow-by. If so, the crankcase pressure might blow the seals rendering the time and money useless.

From my searching, I've seen some common lines of thought so I took it to a mechanic. Told him, that I, as an arm-chair internet mechanic, think (1) oil on top is from a pad pcv valve and oil on bottom is from bad seals, or (2) the real cause is classic blow-by and everything else is symptomatic. He checked spark plugs (clean), pcv valve (works) and deduced that I should fix the seals. Though I mentioned I would appreciate a compression and/or leakdown test he thought the engine was fine internally. I agree that addressing seals was a good way to start and half-agree that it runs well (wish it could cruise above 70. btw 31" tires, stock drivetrain, also it floods if I give it gas when the engine is cold. Yes, I know it is a good idea to let it get up to operating temp).

I'm going to:
- Replace oil pan gasket, plumb up all the vacuum lines (some are broken), clean the carb and put in heavier weight oil.
- Wait and see.
- I'm sure my oil loss will be reduced but not sure if won't stop spewing up top. If that is true, I will throw my hands up in the air and maybe do a catch-can mod but that won't fix the problem.

So what else would you do, if this happened to you and you know:
- tailpipe exhaust is clean looking
- your mechanic ruled out pcv valve and blow-by, and
- you needed a highway-dependable vehicle
- Oil pressure gauge shows pressure is good (or stuck at good, who knows!)




***This is my first post here and I am not mechanically inclined (well.. maybe not mechanically experienced). Given that, I posted in the newbs section. Feel free to movie***
*** If you need to flame at my ignorance, please do. Just leave a useful tidbit of info or link***

RSR

Don't put in heavier weight oil. That just harms your engine.

I don't have a 22 series engine but my guess is your timing chain has worn a hole through its cover and your engine fan is blowing that oil all over...

It's also possible that your PCV valve is bad too, affecting the PCV system and causing the filter size to build up pressure and have oil flow...

zieg9479

Hmm. So to be clear here. There was oil all over. After replacing the front main there's no "loose" distributed oil save for what's leaking out the pan gasket. Up top the oil is neatly collecting on and in the airbox from venting up and out (see photo), as well as the hac lines. Which must occur by sipping it up out of the airbox.

And PCV valve works.

Also, I have no idea why running a heavier oil ( say 20w50 max, which Toyota says is fine for 22r) "harms" an engine. But if there's a good reason that its inappropriate to run a thicker oil (in warm weather), my ears are open

RSR

The knowledge about engine oils and engine construction has changed substantially since the late 1970s when the 22r was designed, first introduced on production vehicles in 1981...
Did a quick search and it looks like the 22r was rated 10W-30 to 20W-50 depending on the ambient temps. That's a big range in viscosity. But you CAN use modern 30 weight oils -- that second number is what matters; the first you want the lowest possible. Head over to Bob's motor oil university and read through the series: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

In regards to heavier oils, bottom line is they flow slower and are less effective at lubricating... Which means heavier oils will increase wear, decrease lifespan of oil between changes, and lead to your engine running hotter.

The reason they went with heavy oils back in the day are that looser machining tolerances required it (especially in regards to minimizing oil escaping around the piston rings) and also because oils then lacked the modern additive packages of stuff like ZDDP (zinc) and titanium that serve to ensure the oil maintains its tensile strength and lubrication in super high stress areas... Since the oil couldn't be counted on to protect, they increased tolerances hoping that more oil between surfaces would get er done.

All that said, since you're staying within the 22r owners manual engine oil specs you shouldn't be causing immediate critical damage like folks do when running these weights of oil in more modern engines. Stuff like bearing clearances, crank journals, oil passages, etc, are all crafted to specifically support certain weight oils at certain flow rates. Typically folks running heavier weight oils are doing so to minimize leaks with their primary intent, which is just short sighted.
Most of them run the more modern engines where all that stuff that matters sizing-wise in the lubrication system has been designed for lighter weight oils than folks are running. 22re for instance is 10w30 and 5w30 weight oils only. BIG difference from 20w50. In this instance is when folks are causing immediate critical damage and wear stress that will quickly require a full engine rebuild -- not just fixing a leaky gasket.

So from the Toyota recommendations, yours isn't the more severe case, but is the case where running heavier weight oil expedites engine wear for a whole host of reasons. The 90% of engine wear at startup figure (how much of that is lubrication and how much of that is unneutralized acids is somewhat in debate but...). If engine longevity is a tradeoff you're willing to make to avoid an oil leak, then so be it.

But if you want to play with oil weights, the proper way to do it is run the lowest first number you can for the proper oil operating weight at operating temp (the 2nd number) by getting an oil pressure gauge and seeing how the different rates flow and which one best maintains the ideal oil pressure (also covered in one of the later motor oil universities...).

zieg9479

Thanks. That info was really helpful. After reading about 20w50 I decided it is not worth it. I think it was 22reperformance that really recommended not doing it.

Well I haven't gone on any drives except for around town so I'm not sure what the current state is. But I'm still befuddled.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

interesting I run nothing but 20/50 in my 22Rec engines with no problems

From the High Mileage to the fresh rebuilt one

I guess it is a personal thing.

To much of a pain to have a bunch of different oils.

Two 55 gallon drums of oil is enough one 20/50 the other 5/30 then it does not really ever get to cold.

morena67

x2... 20w50...

qball

Not sure if I'm doing this correctly but desperately need help with 1981 Toyota Pickup need photos of vacuum lines of the 22r motor

Odin

Actually in the mid 90's because of government regulations the oil companies began gradually reducing the ZDDP zink and phosphorous levels in standard oils and they've done so a few times since then, who knows when they'll stop. They reduced the levels because they say zink and phosphorus is bad for the environment and catalytic converter's.

Unfortunately reducing those two ingredients causes problems in machinery that have fairly high wear areas. Old engines that use flat tappet cam and lifters like the first generation small block Chevy fall prey to these newer oil formulations. Especially if it has an aggressively ramped aftermarket cam. That doesn't specifically mean a cam with high lift. A low lift cam that has fast opening and closing ramps also has increased wear characteristics.

I've seen a few posts on here about worn out cam and rockers on this site involving 22r-re engines with 100,000 miles on them. Maybe the new oil formulations are at the point where they aren't so good for our engines either?

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Odin;

There are no lifters in 22r series engines the rockers/cam followers ride right on the cam.

It is different going to over head cams in the head it is a down right strange concept to we former muscle car people.

We are so used to the phrase Cam & Lifters it should be one word!!!

I am sure it was just worded wrong

Good information other wise

Odin

Oops, this is true.

I'm using Valvoline VR1 10-30 which still has a healthy additive package to try and protect my cam and rockers. Now that I mention it maybe I should rethink that because I don't want to trash the cat.