Daddyota

Help!

4runner newb here - and I have a problem.

My manual trans gets harder and harder to shift as it gets warm. When it is cold, it shifts fine - no drama. But as it gets to operating temp it wont go into 1st easily, and all the other gears take some coaxing to shift requiring double clutching and matching rpms.

Bought an 86 with 22re and manual transmission with an S-ton of miles on it. when I test drove it, there was no problem because it was COLD! It has a rebuilt engine and the guy said he did the clutch and all the fluids less than a year ago. I had no reason not to believe him because he had a nice shop and showed me all his toys he was working on.

Any ideas of what it could be?

I took it to a shop and the fluid was clean and very full - it spilled out when they cracked the fill plug.

The clutch pedal has a weird crispy feeling almost like crunching when I press it down and I noticed the clutch fluid was low - but no visible leaks I can see.

could it be something as simple as a pedal adjustment or do I need to find a donor trans? Is the clutch gone? Slave clutch cylinder?

Any advice is appreciated! I did a search and didn't find anything so fahgetabboudet!

bruno4turbo

Might be the blocking rings within the transmission, or the shift fork plastic fork ends,

not much internals that can go wrong in a manual when gears DO engage.

usually they would get easier when warm, but could be opposite, which would be what effects all gears, honestly i can't give much diagnosis without looking at it tho...

the fluid is just normal green gear oil right?

bruno4turbo

or air in your clutch linkage, fill the fluid, bleed the system get any air out and check if that helps it, then check it regularly

Daddyota

Yup just greenish gear oil. Are the shift fork ends outside of the tranny? I want to check out all options before yanking out the tranny and spending $$$ on a junk yard donor.

Daddyota

Ok great I'll definitely try this. I am hoping it is something to do with the clutch rather than the tranny. Everyone tells me that usually the w56 doesnt go bad...

bruno4turbo

I don't believe the trans is bad, are any of the gears grinding when you engage? or just tough to engage?

if all gears are effected its either the clutch linkage, the shift linkage or the fluid, or clutch disc

since the fluid is clean, and the clutch disc is new I don't suspect those. I would say first bleed the linkage, make sure to keep the reservoir full at all times while bleeding, just like brakes a little air can cause problems, then check it all the time case there is a leak you just cant see.

and if that doesn't help you probably do have to pull the trans, don't need a donner tho, and i suggest a 4x4 shop, gear shop, toyota specific preferably, not an AAMCO or other chain shop, being a mechanic myself trust me on that. chain shops are decent at everything, but not great at anything.

as for the shift linkage I haven't taken apart a yota manual trans before, i have taken apart plenty of domestics, but if it has external linkage just make sure its not loose, if its internal leave that to the shop

if you HAVE to bring it in, DO NOT try to take it apart in any way, just drop it and bring it straight to a shop, or just bring the whole truck there, there are many shops that refuse customers or charge more for disassembled units because they don't know if you misplaced something

I do believe that bleeding the system will help, the symptoms are pointing that direction, and its very common that when someone changes a clutch that the fluid may leak out since they pressure from the clutch fork isn't holding it in place.

good luck and keep me posted hope it works out for ya

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Are you used to using a clutch?? I have seen drivers take out clutch in a few days.

Are you smelling the burnt clutch smell??

Does it slip in gear at all??

clutch getting hot does not go into gear smooth like it should

once in gear any strange grinding rumbling noises??

The clutch pedal bracket might be broken.

the rubber clutch hose could be swelling preventing the slave cylinder to attain full travel. When under the hood temperatures gets warm

**all the linkage is in the transmission

worn shifter seat most times does not cause grinding of gears when shifting The pattern just gets real sloppy or did in my case.

Worn bearings in the transmission most often allow the transmission to jump out of gear .

It does not hurt to bleed the clutch Hydraulics to start .

Check for full travel of the slave cylinder!!

Hard getting into gear sounds like a hydraulic or broken bracket problem

Slipping under load worn or broken clutch components

popping out of gear strange grinding noises in gear leads toward a transmission on the way out.

Daddyota

Thanks all good info.

No burnt clutch smell, Im used to driving a stick my whole life so thats not it. The guy I bought it from did say he taught his daughter to drive stick on it, which I guess could be the issue if she burned it up. Even if it was a year old clutch Im guessing that a teenager could easily kill a clutch in a year?

There is no slipping while in gear at all, but there is a slight whine from the trans, not bad or anything crazy. just sounds old.

The shifter seat is definitely worn - the shifter flops all over the place haha.

This weekend Im going to:
1. check the slave cylinder
2. bleed/flush the clutch
3. check the pedal bracket (where is that by the way???)

bruno4turbo

fallow the pedal up you'll see the bracket, then for the linkage fallow the master to the slave and check where it's secured to the body. and the shifter floping could be a loose bolt that holds the shifter to the internal shift linkage, i've never taken the manuals apart so i'm not sure how it connects to the trans.

whine usually means a small bearing is going bad

ThisLifeILead

Potentially a failing master cylinder? I have the exact problem and i replaced my clutch last year. after changing my tranny fluid it got slightly better but i think its my Master as right after i did my clutch my slave went while i was bleeding the system..... and ive bled the ˟˟˟˟˟ outta my lines.

bruno4turbo

could be an internal leak within the master, happens to brake masters so i don't know why it couldn't happen to clutch masters.

if the bleeding doesn't help, maybe change the master out, since they're not super expensive if it works you wont have to drop about $800 just for a shop to look at the trans

nmtoy

Pull the carpet back in the cab and see if the master is leaking inside the cab.
Sounds pretty typical of a bad master cylinder.
As mentioned before also check the flex hose.

Daddyota

Sorry for taking so long to update. I finally had time to get into it and I checked out. No cracked clutch mount. I did find a leak just like nmtoy's picture above. I bought a master and a slave (they were super cheap on rockauto) and will put them in soon. Figured I would wait to flush until after they are put in.

One thing that I forgot to mention - when it is still warming up and shifting nice, you can hear a distinct clutch noise or trans noise sounds like a subtle clicky rumble when the clutch is NOT engaged. when you engage the clutch it goes away. When it is warmed up it goes away and the shifting is hard.

Im hoping the new master and slave will solve it so Ill update after I get it in. Thanks for all your help so far!

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Great advice on this thread - curious to see if the new parts solve it. I had to replace my tranny last year and clutch - fun job- learned a lot.

Something else to look at doing regardless is replace your shifter seat bushing to remove that slop in the stick - Marlin sells them for like ten bucks an they are a great upgrade.

The noise you hear when clutch not engaged (read: in gear and under load right?) is likely a bearing starting to go...that is INSIDE your tranny and means, at some point, you'll need to rebuild ($$$) or swap ($) in a used one.

Hope you solve it cheaply!

Daddyota

The noise is actually when in neutral and the clutch is not engaged. I'm just worried the guy who did the clutch before I bought it did it wrong or something. When in gear the tranny makes all kinds of freaky sounds because it is old as death - so a replacement trans is on the list of to-do's. Just don't wanna do it yet.


I will pick up that shifter seat bushing from marlin for sure! Ten bucks sounds like a deal.

Daddyota

Thanks guys, I installed a new master clutch and slave with a nice flush and my problems are gone! Well, the truck shifts, now onto the rest of the oozing, broken and whole lot of ugly you get from 317k.