tmorton137

Howsy,
Trying to decide between going with an AT vs a 5sp transmission 1st gen 4runner. Yes I know automatic tranny's are for pansies so no need for a kick in the nuts there, my concern is how sturdy and problem free is an automatic vs a 5sp for offroading. I would prefer to find a 5sp but Im having a hell of a time finding one in my area. Tons of automatics on craigslist so I guess that should tell me something if they're not selling. Let me know what you think, thanks. -T

deathrunner

If it's a 4cylinder, I would definitely get a 5 speed.

If it's a 6cylinder, I would definitely get a 5 speed.

Cheaper to rebuild, stays cooler, plenty strong for most needs, and more control in descents, Probably slightly better MPG's. Do you want your MPG?

FredTJ

Yup, go tell amost virtually every competitive rockcrawler or other "heavy" offroader that they are a pansy !!

Autos simply have no comparison in the big stuff and most all types of trails. They rule....

So don't worry about your self image if you get an auto tranny.

Just sit back all smiley watching those manual tranny boys make the "easy" obstacles look tough while you make the "tough" obstacles look easy


The auto's in the Toyotas are really pretty tough and trouble free assuming that they are maintained as they should be.
Keep 'em cool and keep the fluid in good shape and you'll be fine.

Anyone talking about a Toyota truck/4Runner and gas milage in the same sentence, well........



Fred

blinkybill04

that is encouraging to hear that the auto works well too (my buddy just bought an auto 2.7 taco). as a rule on this site, what is more popular? kinda the same question i realise, but just curious...

deserttoy84

manual all the way.... it funt o mess around in 4 low with a manual. you can hold gears when off roading. auto trannies are good untill they get too hot which doesnt take long. only thing auto i would run for off road would be a full size long travel truck with a 2 speed powerglide.

rocket

iTrader: (1)

This subject has been covered a million times. Get a 5spd. Fred dosen't know what he's missing and never will.

Flygtenstein

Do you like the smell of clutch?

Going slow with an auto is easy. Doing it with a stick is not.

Search.

tc

The issue is not one of the semantics or personal preference about 'wheeling with a manual or an auto.

If you're going to drive this truck on the road AT ALL, and especially with bigger tires, you MUST get a manual. The automatics are horribly matched with the available motors due to the large overdrive. Almost 100% of the complaints about power from the 3.0 are from people with automatics.

If you want to be able to hold the overdrive, you're looking at 5.71's to run 33's, whereas the much stronger 4.88's are good with the manual tranny. 35's are a real dog, even with a 3.0 and anything larger is absolutely out of the question.

(Note that this opinion is based off regular driving of 2 V6 1993 4Runners, one a manual transmission with 4.88's on 33's or 34's and the other an auto with 35's and 5.71's)

Dan.3

If this is true then why do so many people with 5 speed do the 3.4 swap??? If it a 4 banger get the 5 speed. If it is a six it will be based on preferance. Wheeling with an auto is so much easier than a 5 speed. If it going to be your DD then you may want to consider a 5speed. If you have to sit in stop and go traffic I would recommend an auto. If not, go for the 5 speed. How much wheeling are you planning on doing?

tc

I don't know - you'll have to ask them, but I'm sure the significantly reduced cost to do the swap with a manual tranny has something to do with it...

Anyone else here driven identical rigs one with manual and the other auto?

Adam F

What TC says is true.

The older motors really need a 5 speed to hold their own. The auto just sucks too much power out of the motor.

But an auto really is easier to wheel with. I wish I had an auto a lot of times. If I ever swap motors Ill probably go auto.

AxleIke

Autos are the shiznit.

I have wheeled with trucks where we have had to pull over, and eat lunch for two hours due to a hot clutch. It wasn't fun.

Auto vs manual is a silly debate really, just drive what you got. If buying a truck, figure out how you like to drive in the truck on the road, which is likely where you'll be doing 99% of all your driving, and buy the tranny that you like the most.

That being said, Auto vs manual in a strict crawling sense, auto kills cuz you can go as slow and with as much control as you want. A manual becomes a benifit when talking about gear selection. If i want to start in 2nd, i can do that. An auto, you can't. But really, that only becomes a factor when talking about technical trails where 2nd gear is going to get you up, and 1st gear isn't. For the rest of the time, an auto will make your life gravy.

FredTJ

I've run most of the toughest trails out here and have never had a problem (with an auto) of not making an obstacle because I couldn't start out in 2nd gear (on any other gear other than 1st for that matter). That's a problem with manual trannies.
The torque converter provides an almost infinately variable "crawl ratio" that it simply doesn't matter.




Fred

AxleIke

meh, its all personal preference anyway

i've just heard guys who say, man, wish i could grab second, usually when slightly more speed is needed for a bump. Never experienced it myself, so couldn't say.

Personally, i drive a stick. Love it on the street, not so much on the trail.

tc

Adrian could have really used that choice on the last climb out of the quarry on Moody Hill... I think it comes down to:

Manual - can choose the exact wheelspeed appropriate for the situation and have better compression braking. The downside is you have to work the clutch.

Auto - can focus more on the line because you're not working the clutch, but can't control the wheelspeed as well

I'll take a manual with a crawler - you get all the benifits and minimize the negatives

FredTJ

Actually the auto's have pretty decent "compression braking".

Compression braking is not all that many make it out to be anyway.
That's what brakes are for.

Also, using heavy compression braking (low, low gear, manual tranny) completely destroys your ability to generate instant wheel speed when needed (and if anyone has to ask when that's needed, then they simply haven't wheeled in any of the "big" hard stuff, read -> big rocks, steep decents and ascents, off camber, etc. ).
Lastly, using heavy compression braking (manual tranny, low, low gear) can get you in trouble pretty quickly in some instances (and we have a lot of those types of decents about here in AZ), caused by combo of too low of gearing for the looseness of the terrain on the descent and the type of tires, and the lack of ability to generate instant wheel speed when needed.

Actually one has a lot more control of wheel speed with an auto rather than with a manual, especially in emergency maneuvers when the ability to generate instant wheel speed is required.

And that is a combo that's not well suited for the big rocks, super steep decents and ascents and heavy off camber areas.

I can't tell y'all how many times we've been out with someone that's had a manual tranny and a super low geared xfer case and/or diffs and see them get into or almost get into trouble because of that, or even the experienced ones complain about the lack of ability to generate wheel speed when needed and how they're over running their brakes on steep ascents, etc.

Most all of the auto "bashing" (so to speak) usually come from those who have either never wheeled with an auto tranny and/or don't know how to wheel with an auto tranny. Wheeling with an auto tranny requires a different technique than wheeling with a manual tranny.


I've wheeled both. A manual tranny for 4 years or so, then swapped in an auto tranny. I've never go back......





Fred

tc

We'll just have to agree to disagree then Fred. And yes, I have 'wheeled both.

Dr.Trevorkian

Autos work better for pulling other trucks out of the mud too