4th Gen 4Runner X-Reas lift options/roundup

spblat · 03-07-2005, 06:08 PM

I sincerely apologize if this has been hashed and rehashed, but my search for a summary of this topic hasn't turned up what I'm looking for. Hopefully this thread will assist future 4th gen (2003 and later) X-REAS 4Runner owners with deciding on a lift.

Problem: 4th Gen 4Runners are fabulous on the trails, but the stock ground clearance is not so fabulous. X-REAS makes this problem harder to solve: we can't lengthen the rear shocks much, and replacement shocks are expensive and mean losing the benefits of X-REAS.

Goal: lift the 4Runner just enough to mount bigger tires and not worry about hitting the skidplate or other stuff on minor to moderate trails.

Please check my facts and assumptions below and provide your thoughts. I am particularly interested in opinions regarding the first "Con" under option #3. Specifically: does raising the rear a couple inches with a spacer from Daystar or another vendor pose any risk whatsoever to the X-REAS system? What happens when a rear wheel is fully extended or fully stuffed with the spacers installed? What is the largest rear spacer that can be safely installed without modifying the X-REAS shocks?

Solution #1 (NOT RECOMMENDED): Nitrous Enterprises 3" lift with X-REAS relocators. This solution is extremely unpopular, due to reports of serious problems with customer service, integrity of the company's remaining representatives, product quality/safety and overall design. I have implemented this solution and am the process of deciding on an alternative. For additonal information on this option and links to discussions about this, see the link in my signature.

Solution #2: Daystar 1" Front Leveling Kit, Part number KT09117.
This kit just lifts the front end 1", leaving the rear alone. Note that stock 4Runners are noticably lower in front. Here's mine, before any lift and with 265/70/17 tires.
- Pro: no risk of X-REAS stress (front leveler doesn't lengthen the shock).
- Pro: there's a certain elegance to it: the result will be about 9.5" clearance under both the front skid plate and the rear diff with 265/70/17 tires.
- Con: may appear to sag a tad in the rear when loaded.
- Con: rear wheels may have limited travel and/or wheel well rubbing when rock crawling.

Solution #3: Daystar 2.5" Spacer Kit, Part number KT09115.
This kit raises the rear 2.0" with a spacer above each rear coil. It also raises the front 2.5" by lengthening the strut tower assembly.
- Pro: big bad truck. Nice and tall, looks killer with 265/70/17 tires.
- Pro: super off road performance on rocks and trails compared to stock.
- Con: it's possible that even a small 2.0" spacer in the rear poses a risk to X-REAS systems when fully extended/fully stuffed.

EDIT May 1 2008 Solution #4 (the winner!) OLD Man Emu 3" kit designed for 4th gen 4Runner
Slee sells this. My local place ordered the parts and did the install this week.

So what do y'all think? The pro/con system is subjective, but I appear to be convincing myself to go with #3. Assuming I'm not a loser and couldn't find where this was rehashed and summarized to death already, I'll update this first post in the thread with notes on the most interesting feedback.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

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Good Times · 03-07-2005, 06:12 PM

don't forget revtek and cornfed both work w/ the xreas system.

r0cky · 03-07-2005, 06:49 PM

Solution #4: Revtek 3" Spacer Kit.
This kit raises the front 3" with isolator and top out spacers. In the rear, 2.5" is accomplished with a 2.5" spacer which sits between the bumpstop and coil.

I ran this kit for months with absolute NO issues or damage to the XREAS system. It comes with longer shocks, but can be ordered (and run safely) without the rear shocks.

** with this lift, you can run 275/70/17 Goodyear MTRs with minimal trimming of the inner plastic fenders.

FirstToy · 03-07-2005, 06:55 PM

spblat,
Daystar has no ill-effect on XREAS. I have flexed mine fully many times with no problem as has Bulldog-yota.

r0cky · 03-07-2005, 06:56 PM

I may not have done any crazy jumping stuff, but I flexed mine with the Revtek lift as well and had no problems either ... as has Michael (ahriman).

Think it's safe to say the Revtek and Daystar lifts are well-established as safe to run with XREAS - fully flexing and all.

Mickdady · 03-07-2005, 08:10 PM

I have run my Revtek kit pretty hard as shown in the picture below with no uneven settling. The ride is great and the kit is actually pretty easy to install. I got this kit from Rocky after NE couldn't produce a product after 9 weeks. (I am the one who started the NE customer feedback thread

)

If you have any questions about this kit or the install of these kits let me know.

Flygtenstein · 03-07-2005, 08:14 PM

Has anyone made strides in defeating the Xreas so that a person with it could use "normal" lift options?

Is there a SAW front yet? How about rear pure coils?

Sounds like this system is good only for stock and even then it is bad.

Mickdady · 03-07-2005, 08:19 PM

This system works lifted....just not with NE Relocs (in my opinnion). As for replacements no one makes an XREAS compatible shock yet. From what I hear the system may not be bleedable so it may not even be possible. Someone from T4r was gonna scrap their whole XREAS system and start over with a non-xreas parts.

I think Bulldogyota has a vid of his XREAS jumping off a sand dune! If you have it, there is no reason not to lift it (that has been shown yet).

r0cky · 03-07-2005, 08:59 PM

yes, there is a SAW kit, as well as a Donahoe kit and Downey kit ... but they are all coilover kits, so they can't be used with XREAS.

since my XREAS is blown, i can either pay $1500 to have it replaced, or just replace it with coilovers and be done with it. so, i'm going with the SAW kit.

people with XREAS will just have to wait, i guess. Revtek is working on some rear shock relocators, but this is not for those with XREAS - it's just for use with their kits so that you don't have to run longer shocks. well, it might work with XREAS, but they don't recommend it.

you're right, Mickdady, the XREAS system is NOT bleedable whatsoever.

(Mike, I'm one of the people scrapping the XREAS system and starting over with non-xreas parts -- I'm going the SAW route, while RL Lemke is doing the same but going with Donahoe)

r0cky · 03-07-2005, 09:00 PM

oh, and for the rear, there ARE some coils that would work even with XREAS ... they're the Downey coilovers but they give about 1.25" of lift.

FirstToy · 03-07-2005, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flygtenstein

Sounds like this system is good only for stock and even then it is bad.

Why? Stock it works great and with a little lift it works great. That covers about 99.9% of the 4Runner owners.

Even replacing the system with coilovers isn't any big deal- it's just the fact you are loosing a very expensive, very nice feature; but if you are building up a heavily modded truck, you need to do that.

Even then, disassemble the XREAS correctly and you can put it back to stock if you decide to do that.

Flygtenstein · 03-08-2005, 04:47 AM

So it can be pulled instead of merely defeated without adverse affect?

I am not high on spacer lifts, so coils and coilovers sound better.

Thanks for the info.

Good Times · 03-08-2005, 08:22 AM

cheese, the xreas is similar to a system like the rancho 9000's where they're all connected but in the xreas' case it's connected in a "X" pattern that's all

so technically, you can remove all the parts and just use stock components since the mounts are universal. kinda sounds all complicated but in reality it's really no different than a regular setup w/ some cheesy line connecting eachother.

i'm sure those that really want to do tough stuff will drop the xreas in a heartbeat as it looks like a few are thinking about going in that direction, the factor is just the cost since the xreas system is $$ (bling) to begin with. Pretty darn hard to want to remove a system that you paid for already.

DealMaker · 03-08-2005, 08:58 AM

The XREAS shock looks like a reservior shock in that it is a shock with a flexline that attaches to the rest of the XREAS plumbing. I'd think all you'd really need to remove is just the shock and detach the flex line where the flex line runs from the shock into the hard line, and cap that hard line with some kind of plumbing fixture. Then you can just keep the rest of the system on-board, and if you ever want to restore it back all you have to do is reinstall the shocks/flex line and have the system recharged at the stealer.

Seahawk1 · 03-08-2005, 11:30 AM

I've removed the NE relocs and now just running 2.5" spacers in the front and 2" in the rear. As noted in another thread, there is still some squeaking coming from the back due to the uneveness of the NE spacer. I intend to replace with with either a Daystar or Revtek 2" spacer. Note, I have X-REAS. Can you buy just the rear 2" spacer from Revtek or Daystar? Cost?

One other thing, since I removed the NE shock relocator, I have noticed that the back rides much harder (less absorption of shock). I guess this tells me that the concept of the relocator was right but maybe the execution was flawed. Anyone else experience this?

r0cky · 03-08-2005, 03:09 PM

actually, yours should ride better since you took the re-locs off. I was under the impression that you were running a 4"/3" lift?? the harshness you are feeling has nothing to do with the 2" lift back there -- your ride should not have changed much at all.

if you want to replace them, you'll need the rear daystar spacers, as they are 2" ... the Revteks are 2.5" ...

yes, you can buy them separately -- just talk to Gary or Jason at Wheelersoffroad.com

FirstToy · 03-08-2005, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flygtenstein

So it can be pulled instead of merely defeated without adverse affect?

I am not high on spacer lifts, so coils and coilovers sound better.

Thanks for the info.

Yeah you can pull it as the other guys described. Coilovers do sound good but it's just getting over dismantling an expensive system. Quite a mental hurdle for a new truck owner

4runningguy · 03-08-2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seahawk1

One other thing, since I removed the NE shock relocator, I have noticed that the back rides much harder (less absorption of shock). I guess this tells me that the concept of the relocator was right but maybe the execution was flawed. Anyone else experience this?

You might want to check your rear shocks, as they might be damaged. That might explain the harsher ride. The fluid might not have leaked out, but because of the angle the reloc was at, it might have bent your shock just enough to ride ok with the relocs, but since your shocks are back to the straight position the bent shock might be binding now.

r0cky · 03-08-2005, 03:53 PM

who are you, 4runningguy?

4runningguy · 03-08-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0cky

who are you, 4runningguy?

My name is Paul. Why do you ask?

Seahawk1 · 03-08-2005, 04:43 PM

Thanks Rocky, I emailed Gary and Jason asking for a price.

Any ideas for dealer alternatives to figuring out what is going on with rear shocks and the harsh ride?

spblat · 03-08-2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seahawk1

One other thing, since I removed the NE shock relocator, I have noticed that the back rides much harder (less absorption of shock). I guess this tells me that the concept of the relocator was right but maybe the execution was flawed. Anyone else experience this?

Yes, I have definitely noticed this too.

4runningguy · 03-08-2005, 05:15 PM

If you can, try to take the rear shock off, and check if they are straight. If you lost fluid, the shock can not work properly and it should be real soft because it can not dampen properly. But if it is bent, then it will bind causing your ride to be harsh. I can't believe NE won't take any responsibility for all these messed up shocks. I hope I'm wrong, and everything works out for you guys.

spblat · 03-08-2005, 05:23 PM

When I removed the relocs, the rear shocks extended fully, and I had to muscle 'em back onto the original mount. I had to use all my strength to compress 'em to the mount point, but they both moved smoothly. I bet I wouldn't have been able to do this job (at least by myself) if they were bent and/or binding--my two cents.

Seahawk1 · 03-08-2005, 05:38 PM

spblat: my experiences exactly regarding getting the shocks back into place. They fully extended and then I actually used a bottle jack to raise it near the level of the pin

03-07-2005, 06:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Good Times Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,692	don't forget revtek and cornfed both work w/ the xreas system. __________________ 2003 4runner SR5 4x4 Chaos Edition Chaos Edition! Operation Rebuild Chaos Edition Need to reach me or ask questions? You can find me here!

03-07-2005, 06:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
r0cky Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 5,370	Solution #4: Revtek 3" Spacer Kit. This kit raises the front 3" with isolator and top out spacers. In the rear, 2.5" is accomplished with a 2.5" spacer which sits between the bumpstop and coil. I ran this kit for months with absolute NO issues or damage to the XREAS system. It comes with longer shocks, but can be ordered (and run safely) without the rear shocks. ** with this lift, you can run 275/70/17 Goodyear MTRs with minimal trimming of the inner plastic fenders. Last edited by r0cky; 03-07-2005 at 06:52 PM.

03-07-2005, 08:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mickdady Contributing Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mill Creek, Washington Posts: 648	I have run my Revtek kit pretty hard as shown in the picture below with no uneven settling. The ride is great and the kit is actually pretty easy to install. I got this kit from Rocky after NE couldn't produce a product after 9 weeks. (I am the one who started the NE customer feedback thread ) If you have any questions about this kit or the install of these kits let me know. __________________ - Mike 2007 Tacoma DC TRD ARB bumper, XD9000, 285/75/16 procomp xterrains (3ply), 16x8 4.5" backspacing, OME 886s, Dakar leafs

03-07-2005, 08:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
Mickdady Contributing Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mill Creek, Washington Posts: 648	This system works lifted....just not with NE Relocs (in my opinnion). As for replacements no one makes an XREAS compatible shock yet. From what I hear the system may not be bleedable so it may not even be possible. Someone from T4r was gonna scrap their whole XREAS system and start over with a non-xreas parts. I think Bulldogyota has a vid of his XREAS jumping off a sand dune! If you have it, there is no reason not to lift it (that has been shown yet). __________________ - Mike 2007 Tacoma DC TRD ARB bumper, XD9000, 285/75/16 procomp xterrains (3ply), 16x8 4.5" backspacing, OME 886s, Dakar leafs Last edited by Mickdady; 03-07-2005 at 08:21 PM.

03-08-2005, 08:22 AM	#13 (permalink)
Good Times Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,692	cheese, the xreas is similar to a system like the rancho 9000's where they're all connected but in the xreas' case it's connected in a "X" pattern that's all so technically, you can remove all the parts and just use stock components since the mounts are universal. kinda sounds all complicated but in reality it's really no different than a regular setup w/ some cheesy line connecting eachother. i'm sure those that really want to do tough stuff will drop the xreas in a heartbeat as it looks like a few are thinking about going in that direction, the factor is just the cost since the xreas system is $$ (bling) to begin with. Pretty darn hard to want to remove a system that you paid for already. __________________ 2003 4runner SR5 4x4 Chaos Edition Chaos Edition! Operation Rebuild Chaos Edition Need to reach me or ask questions? You can find me here!

03-07-2005, 06:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
r0cky Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 5,370	I may not have done any crazy jumping stuff, but I flexed mine with the Revtek lift as well and had no problems either ... as has Michael (ahriman). Think it's safe to say the Revtek and Daystar lifts are well-established as safe to run with XREAS - fully flexing and all.

03-07-2005, 08:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,246	Has anyone made strides in defeating the Xreas so that a person with it could use "normal" lift options? Is there a SAW front yet? How about rear pure coils? Sounds like this system is good only for stock and even then it is bad.

03-07-2005, 08:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
r0cky Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 5,370	yes, there is a SAW kit, as well as a Donahoe kit and Downey kit ... but they are all coilover kits, so they can't be used with XREAS. since my XREAS is blown, i can either pay $1500 to have it replaced, or just replace it with coilovers and be done with it. so, i'm going with the SAW kit. people with XREAS will just have to wait, i guess. Revtek is working on some rear shock relocators, but this is not for those with XREAS - it's just for use with their kits so that you don't have to run longer shocks. well, it might work with XREAS, but they don't recommend it. you're right, Mickdady, the XREAS system is NOT bleedable whatsoever. (Mike, I'm one of the people scrapping the XREAS system and starting over with non-xreas parts -- I'm going the SAW route, while RL Lemke is doing the same but going with Donahoe)

03-07-2005, 09:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
r0cky Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 5,370	oh, and for the rear, there ARE some coils that would work even with XREAS ... they're the Downey coilovers but they give about 1.25" of lift.

03-08-2005, 04:47 AM	#12 (permalink)
Flygtenstein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 4,246	So it can be pulled instead of merely defeated without adverse affect? I am not high on spacer lifts, so coils and coilovers sound better. Thanks for the info.

03-08-2005, 08:58 AM	#14 (permalink)
DealMaker Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: coastal L.A. Posts: 991	The XREAS shock looks like a reservior shock in that it is a shock with a flexline that attaches to the rest of the XREAS plumbing. I'd think all you'd really need to remove is just the shock and detach the flex line where the flex line runs from the shock into the hard line, and cap that hard line with some kind of plumbing fixture. Then you can just keep the rest of the system on-board, and if you ever want to restore it back all you have to do is reinstall the shocks/flex line and have the system recharged at the stealer. __________________ '04 4Runner 4X4 SE V8 BFG KO 265/70/17 - Donahoe Coilovers - Deaver rear springs - Bilstein 7100 shocks - Hanna Sliders - Shrockworks Front Bullbar Last edited by RBLACAUSA; 03-08-2005 at 09:01 AM.

03-08-2005, 11:30 AM	#15 (permalink)
Seahawk1 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 33	I've removed the NE relocs and now just running 2.5" spacers in the front and 2" in the rear. As noted in another thread, there is still some squeaking coming from the back due to the uneveness of the NE spacer. I intend to replace with with either a Daystar or Revtek 2" spacer. Note, I have X-REAS. Can you buy just the rear 2" spacer from Revtek or Daystar? Cost? One other thing, since I removed the NE shock relocator, I have noticed that the back rides much harder (less absorption of shock). I guess this tells me that the concept of the relocator was right but maybe the execution was flawed. Anyone else experience this? __________________ '03 4WD 4Runner V-8 Sport Edition XREAS removed, T&H Grill Guard, 265/70R17 Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revos, Donahoe Coilovers, Total Chaos Upper Control Arms, Hanna Quality Sliders

03-08-2005, 03:09 PM	#16 (permalink)
r0cky Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 5,370	actually, yours should ride better since you took the re-locs off. I was under the impression that you were running a 4"/3" lift?? the harshness you are feeling has nothing to do with the 2" lift back there -- your ride should not have changed much at all. if you want to replace them, you'll need the rear daystar spacers, as they are 2" ... the Revteks are 2.5" ... yes, you can buy them separately -- just talk to Gary or Jason at Wheelersoffroad.com

03-08-2005, 03:53 PM	#19 (permalink)
r0cky Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 5,370	who are you, 4runningguy?

03-08-2005, 04:43 PM	#21 (permalink)
Seahawk1 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 33	Thanks Rocky, I emailed Gary and Jason asking for a price. Any ideas for dealer alternatives to figuring out what is going on with rear shocks and the harsh ride? __________________ '03 4WD 4Runner V-8 Sport Edition XREAS removed, T&H Grill Guard, 265/70R17 Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revos, Donahoe Coilovers, Total Chaos Upper Control Arms, Hanna Quality Sliders

03-08-2005, 05:15 PM	#23 (permalink)
4runningguy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Flat Flat Flat Chicago Posts: 5	If you can, try to take the rear shock off, and check if they are straight. If you lost fluid, the shock can not work properly and it should be real soft because it can not dampen properly. But if it is bent, then it will bind causing your ride to be harsh. I can't believe NE won't take any responsibility for all these messed up shocks. I hope I'm wrong, and everything works out for you guys.

03-08-2005, 05:23 PM	#24 (permalink)
spblat Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Portland OR Posts: 16	When I removed the relocs, the rear shocks extended fully, and I had to muscle 'em back onto the original mount. I had to use all my strength to compress 'em to the mount point, but they both moved smoothly. I bet I wouldn't have been able to do this job (at least by myself) if they were bent and/or binding--my two cents. __________________ 2003 4runner Sport V8 4X4 Imperial Jade Mica, Grey Cladding, debadged BFG AT TA KO 265/70/17, 3" OME Coilovers My truck stuff My other rants

03-08-2005, 05:38 PM	#25 (permalink)
Seahawk1 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 33	spblat: my experiences exactly regarding getting the shocks back into place. They fully extended and then I actually used a bottle jack to raise it near the level of the pin __________________ '03 4WD 4Runner V-8 Sport Edition XREAS removed, T&H Grill Guard, 265/70R17 Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revos, Donahoe Coilovers, Total Chaos Upper Control Arms, Hanna Quality Sliders

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