SMOD

So I had CEL codes 14 (Igniter signal to ecu) and 25 (Lean code to O2 sensor). I took it to the mechanic and they compression tested it and it has low or zero compression (not sure which he said) in one of the cylinders. He said it needs a new engine or it may be a bad head gasket or cracked block but he couldn't say for sure. He quoted me 5k-6k for putting in a new 3.0

I'm just curious if there is anyway to tell if it's just the head gasket? If it's just the head gasket I'll replace it myself. I can't afford much so my options are very small.

I know about 3.4 and 4.3 engines and swapping them in. Are those found used and cheap and can be swapped in by a unexperienced mechanic? Would I want to swap in a used engine? I always go on google and youtube to fix mine and was able to do a timing belt and water pump so that's kinda where my skill set is.

Maybe find someone who can do the work and wants to trade for their nicely running rig?

jbtvt

Or maybe just a burnt exhaust valve in your #6 cylinder like every other 3.0 over 200k? Find another mechanic. You don't need a new engine because you have low compression in one cylinder. Likely just a valve job, and anyway I put tens of thousands of miles on a low compression #6 in previous 4Runner.

vasinvictor

iTrader: (3)

Yeah your mechanic sucks. You either have a burnt exhaust valve, or your valve are simply out of adjustment. They are a shim over bucket setup and require periodic adjustment. I believe it is actually a 60k maintenance item.

SMOD

Thank you for the response. Yeah I'm not too good with engines. But I've been reading around a lot. On pirate they were talking about the 5th cylinder having low compression a lot of the time and it possibly being caused by bad head gasket or valve job needed. I will be paying 106$ for this diagnosis. I like the mechanic but doesn't seem like they put very much time into my vehicles. Had a better experience in the past with them. I am kinda worried about going to another to spend another 100 for them to just take the easy way out and say I need a new engine like this mechanic. My 3.0 has 175k currently original miles and it does miss badly and almost wants to die at idle. I live in Nevada County in Nor Cal. I wonder if there is a good mechanic around here. I've had a lot of bad experiences here and it just sucks. I have a temp tag til the end of march to get it smogged. Otherwise I would just drive it as is.

I guess at this point I can try to research to do a valve job myself or replace a bad valve. I will tell this to my mechanic when I go to pick it up tomorrow but I already know what he will say which is just talk around me and say it needs a new engine. I called another mechanic and they said they would do a pressure test.

Any input on what I should do next would be helpful. I appreciate the help guys!

jbtvt

Copy and paste this into google, including the quotes but insert a city near you for SF: site:yotatech.com "location: san francisco"

Then PM the members that come up and ask for recommendations. You can also buy all the tools needed to adjust your valves for under $100, digital caliper and all. Check codes with a thin wire or paperclip. Comp testers are $25 on Amazon. Save cash and do it all yourself, gotta start somewhere.

SMOD

Great info. I emailed a couple people from YT.
I guess my ideal situation would be a mechanic telling me exactly what the problem is and then doing it myself, which was the original plan.
I just don't know if the valve adjustment would fix my problem, but I guess for that price it'd be better than getting another diagnosis that may be the same answer as this mechanic.
Is there a test to check the head gasket? and for a bad valve?

jbtvt

Compression test will check for any source of leak, leak-down test will narrow it. Checking valve clearances/adjusting should be done anyway and will certainly tell you if you have a bad valve, ie zero clearance. Head gasket blown will have coolant in oil or vice versa, and/or smell of antifreeze from exhaust when started cold.

scope103

I wouldn't be that hard on the mechanic. Much better he says "probably needs a new engine," than "ah, just needs the valves adjusted" and $250 later it doesn't work.

I would do a leak-down test. http://www.harborfreight.com/cylinde...ter-94190.html Don't get too excited; this test really only works when you compare before and after; you don't have a "before." But done carefully, as jbtvt says, it will give you a lot of information about "where" it is.

If you're replaced a timing belt, you've got enough skill to remove the heads. (And stay away from YouTube; you can look at the real Service Manual online for free!) At that point, you might not be able to visually spot a cracked head, but a fair-to-decent machine shop can for not a lot of money.

I've had cars that kept cracking heads, but from what I've heard here a cracked head or block is probably not your problem. I vote for head gasket, with burnt valve right behind it. The real diagnosis (remove the heads) is the same either way.

Good luck!

SMOD

Awesome! This has been the most helpful thread I've ever had. I guess I have some work to do now. I am confident now to get the tools and run some tests. I feel like this should be do able for me before my time is up for smog. Even if I need a little more time I think I can get the temp extended a little longer. I'll keep updated. Anymore info would be appreciated too but I think I have enough to get started pretty good. I can almost already rule out the head gasket because I've seen no oil in antifreeze or antifreeze in oil. I'll recheck for sure once I pick it up tomorrow though.

RJR

It's quite possible that the mechanic is totally competent, but it's also pretty obvious he doesn't really want the job. Quoting a $6K repair for a $3K truck is just not how you get business. If he wanted to work on your vehicle he would have suggested some lower cost investigative/repair approaches, such as have been mentioned here. Don't blame him; he just knows the real money (for him) is in working on later model, more expensive, vehicles.

The truth is, most of our trucks are really in the DIY stage. Their basic value can't justify the cost of repairs at a professional shop rate. Fortunately there's Yotatech to make DIY possible. Happy wrenching!

mountainbrew

I could barely even find a mechanic to look at my 22re. Must've talked to ten places that turned me down. Finally one of them told me the if they can't just plug into the obd and push a button they don't want to mess with it. Guy who finally would look at it? Half mechanic/ half machine shop that specializes in restorations and motor rebuilds...

scope103

I think that says it perfectly. All mechanics have to struggle with the "risk" issue. When an average customer (like me) comes in, I'm willing to pay $150 for "just diagnostics," but after that I want to know how much it's going to cost. I don't want to pay a coupla-hundred to have the valves adjusted, and then be told "well, it wasn't that, so you just wasted your money."

So the only way for a mechanic to avoid having to make that really uncomfortable call is to figure out what is sure to fix the problem, and quote that. It's not so hard on a newer vehicle. But once you get to 20 years old, who knows what you'll find (replace the engine?)

So if you "can't afford much," DIY is a good route to follow. I just need to add, though, if you're "in a hurry," DIY is not so good. Having RJR (say) replace your head gasket would take a week or two, but since it's your first one you get the learning experience to go with it.

bswarm

Finding a good tech/mechanic is really hard now. I've had to fix many other mechanics problems, whether is was from our shop or somewhere else. They get lazy with diagnostics and take the shotgun route, replace stuff until it's fixed. I had one come in from a well known nationwide chain that sold a customer a $600 "sensor changeover" and still had the same problems. New car dealer mechanics are better, finding one somewhere else is rare. There's three types in my book, best to worst: Techs, mechanics, and parts changers. Then there's service writers, most like to up sell extra work.

SMOD

Yes I wasnt saying I was gunna blow up at my mechanic lol. I picked it up this evening and talked to him and researched and found out what you guys are saying. He said he actually did in the past try fixing issues like this on the 3.0 for it to just fail and not work so he doesnt even work on them anymore just replace when they find a burnt valve which is what he said is wrong with it. I was very nice with them and they gave me more information after I talked with them (other than whats written on the diagnostics print out) which was they concluded it had a bad valve on that cylinder. The cylinder driver side front. So my plan now is to replace the head gasket and would I only replace the bad valve and do a valve adjustment? Or do I have to replace all the valves?

Further info I recieved from just emailing 22reperformance.com was that this bad valve is causing my code 25(lean code to O2) and my code 14(igniter signal to ecu) are unrelated. So there will be another problem to fix too.

Anyway so thats the plan to do this valve job and head gasket to get this thing goin good again. Any other tools then a digital gauge for valve clearane I should pick up? I already know its the valve and not the crankcase as told by my mechanic so I don't even need to do a leak down test.

Cookie Monster

Just a thought...

My cousin had a 3.0L blow up on him, so he looked around locally for 3 days and wound up finding a 4runner with a 3.0L and the worst case of car cancer ever...
But the motor ran!

So $500 later we were swapping the motor, it took the weekend and he now has a parts truck.

Couldnt hurt to look around locally, then you also have a motor that you can tear down, and do a proper rebuild on instead of trying to band-aid it into working alright.

Either way i commend you for taking on what might seem like a daunting task!

SMOD

Well I do have the space and a 97 camry that is a great car so I can actually take the proper time on the work and nkt have to stress too much about it. And this is curious to me because the tow truck guy told me they are a dissmantler also and they have a running 4runner that they were going to junk but would sell to me if I get there before they junk it. He wasnt sure if it was the 3.0 or not though but said it was the same body style. I consider it but was thinking that this same problem would very likely occur on the used 3.0 since it happens a lot? And it would suck if it happened soon after I put it in. Then I could have two motors with the same problem and have to spend 300 or 400 or whatever itd cost for me to do the valve job and head gasket. If I replace the bad valve and head gasket maybe my 3.0 will give me 30k 40k 50k more miles? Since it only has 175k original miles on it. I guess when its really toast would be when the piston rings are fried which I wonder around about how many miles that takes on these 3 slows?

RJR

The valves burn because on a 3.0 they are a pain to adjust, so people (including me) don't do it as often as is recommended in the service manual. As the valves age, the valve face slowly wears away, and without compensating adjustment eventually the valve won't totally close. When that happens the super hot combustion gases blow past it during the power stroke, rapidly burning the valve until the cylinder will no longer hold compression.

If the valves are adjusted regularly, they are not inherently failure prone. Neither are the rings - a 175k engine may easily have another 100K or more left in it. If you pull the heads, get them milled flat, replace all the valves, and do a good job of installing a new head gasket, you'll likely be good for another 100K miles. Replace the timing belt while you're in there as well.

scope103

I'm not sure what you're referring to by digital gauge. The valve clearance is measured with a plain ole feeler gauge. But if you need to "adjust" the valves, that's done by swapping/replacing shims. You'd need a tool like this one: And a source of shims.

So ... consider having a machine shop "do" the heads for you. They'll pressure check the heads, kiss them with a mill to flatten them, re-grind the valves, AND do the valve adjustment using their supply of shims. But beware: at least one member here found he could buy a new engnbldr head for only a little more than what a (cheap) machine shop charged.

I don't think you'll need to replace all the valves; I only needed to replace three exhaust valves. But they're not expensive.

Don't be too convinced (by your mechanic or otherwise) that you now "know" it is only a burnt valve. Sounds good to me, but you just don't know until you get in there. Fortunately, the next most-likely option is head gasket, and you're replacing that on the way.

You'll need a tool to hold the harmonic balancer when you remove the crank bolt (how did you do that with your timing belt?) Here: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...t-time-286372/ I list a few other things to think of before a head gasket job.

Gargoyle_Runner

A cracked head would pretty much show the same signs as a blown head gasket also. So your problem is most likely valve related. Are you running hot at all or have you had any history of? If not your block is most likely fine. I agree with the others regarding your mechanic, he just bid himself out of something he didn't want to do. Check the valves and go from there. If you end up pulling the head and it turns out it's more than that all you've lost is your own time meanwhile gaining experience. You'll be stoked though when you fix it yourself for $100 bucks worth of tools you'll be happy to have anyway.

donomite49

i'd do the heads and start saving for a 3.4 swap if the car is in good shape and you want to keep it.
http://toyonlyswaps.com/