Weasy2k cams installed!
06-13-2007, 07:19 AM
#61
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Megasquirt is an idea, i actually am going to be working closer with it, I have installed a couple of them and i can tell you that the software is not easy to navigate thats the most annoying part so if you don't know much about tuning and electronics this isn't really for you.
As for the rods and pistons, no but i see ont he tracking system that they are coming to my house right now
06-13-2007, 07:27 AM
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you can't get your cast pistons forged. You either buy cast pistons or buy forged pistons.
Cast - means the design is cut from a hunk of metal
forged - means a hunk of metal is compressed or pressed into the design
Forged is stronger.
Cast - means the design is cut from a hunk of metal
forged - means a hunk of metal is compressed or pressed into the design
Forged is stronger.
06-13-2007, 07:48 AM
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i think he is just wondering if he should BOTHER going with upgraded pistons, not forge the current ones hes got just because of a couple people who have boosted these motors with success.
06-13-2007, 10:48 AM
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got the piston and rod....will be sending both out to the manufactures tomorrow. The rod is looking like its the SAME as the 5vz, they will verify this and if its true i already have 3 High Performance Ones in stock
06-13-2007, 10:50 AM
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10-4, guys. No harm meant.
How much PSI are you going to run.
There are pros & cons with cast vs. forged.
It's not just forged is better nowadays. Forged is heavier and requires more expansion to run at optimum operating temp. If you have a racing engine or drive it a lot to be able to break it in properly then you can get forged pistons and they will work well for you. The break in period for forged pistons is longer. If you are making a trail buggy or weekend pleasure craft, then you may be better suited for cast pistons. Cast pistons are lighter, but are not as strong. They work better in motors that are used on the weekends and are not under a tremendous amount of stress like ultra high boost. In boosted applications, detonation can kill your motor & piston if it is weak. If you plan on running 6-8 psi or more with an intercooler and you will run this car mostly over the weekends (not a DD), then cast may be your answer. If you are going to go bananas and boost it up to 20 PSI w/intercooler and race it or hard serious running, the forged is the way to go.
It depends on how you will want to use it.
Don't get something just to say it, get it because it has a purpose.
Osiris
How much PSI are you going to run.
There are pros & cons with cast vs. forged.
It's not just forged is better nowadays. Forged is heavier and requires more expansion to run at optimum operating temp. If you have a racing engine or drive it a lot to be able to break it in properly then you can get forged pistons and they will work well for you. The break in period for forged pistons is longer. If you are making a trail buggy or weekend pleasure craft, then you may be better suited for cast pistons. Cast pistons are lighter, but are not as strong. They work better in motors that are used on the weekends and are not under a tremendous amount of stress like ultra high boost. In boosted applications, detonation can kill your motor & piston if it is weak. If you plan on running 6-8 psi or more with an intercooler and you will run this car mostly over the weekends (not a DD), then cast may be your answer. If you are going to go bananas and boost it up to 20 PSI w/intercooler and race it or hard serious running, the forged is the way to go.
It depends on how you will want to use it.
Don't get something just to say it, get it because it has a purpose.
Osiris
06-13-2007, 09:16 PM
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kool, yea well my truck is gonna be a trailer queen. im gettin myself a 4x4 yota to tow her. also i understand on what your saying osiris. i plan on running the psi well over 14. i also want my pistons forged for reasurance, that nuthin will break. i want to make my 3vz one hella of a strong n powerful motor. the thing thats gonna get me is the tuning.
weazy thanxs, that will be kool if the 5vz n 3vz connecting rods the same that would save alot of money.
weazy thanxs, that will be kool if the 5vz n 3vz connecting rods the same that would save alot of money.
06-13-2007, 10:32 PM
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your telling me, thats less i have to have sitting here too! (about the rods)
Very well put OSIRIS.
As a tuner the one key thing i tell people...no matter what u put into the engine...tuning will be the key factor.
What boost pressure do you want to run max?
Very well put OSIRIS.
As a tuner the one key thing i tell people...no matter what u put into the engine...tuning will be the key factor.
What boost pressure do you want to run max?
06-13-2007, 11:36 PM
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lol the most possible, well of course as much as the two turbos can produce. how much can a turbo put out? cuz im sure if i put out a high number of psi, then that would be alot of hp? how much are you guessin?
06-14-2007, 05:09 AM
#71
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I know of a few cummins 5.9L turbo diesels with head studs seeing 50+ psi of boost, which would be enough to window your block, bend your rods, blow the HG's, and destroy your rings and perhaps pistons or create more carnage... So pending the turbo you use, as much as you want and WAY more than even the most built 3vze can handle.
15psi from a single T04e-60, well intercooled, will net somwhere around 250-270 crank hp pending the tuning.
Go to:
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...ch_center.html
And read everything including the 3 links "turbo 101," "turbo 102," and "turbo 103" and do some number crunching. And you will have to pick a power at the crank you want to shoot for. Pending what weasy2k recommends, I'd say go for 300hp or 350hp. However I would expect the boost to be well into the 20s to get that.
15psi from a single T04e-60, well intercooled, will net somwhere around 250-270 crank hp pending the tuning.
Go to:
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...ch_center.html
And read everything including the 3 links "turbo 101," "turbo 102," and "turbo 103" and do some number crunching. And you will have to pick a power at the crank you want to shoot for. Pending what weasy2k recommends, I'd say go for 300hp or 350hp. However I would expect the boost to be well into the 20s to get that.
Last edited by Bumpin' Yota; 06-14-2007 at 05:16 AM.
06-14-2007, 06:12 AM
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Power will depend on the turbo you choose and that will effect when the power comes on. If you are looking for a great torguey, pulling machine at 3K, then you will be looking for a turbo that generates a lot of power early. If you go with a smaller turbo, then it spools quickly and generates power early, but it will max out in power sooner because it is a smaller turbo. A t3/t4 hybrid is a good middle of the road turbo, but I have seen those mostly with Z-cars and not for hauling purposes. Don't get caught up with 300 hp is 300 hp is 300 hp. You need to understand when and where this 300 hp is being generated. If you need 300 hp to haul something and you have two turbo choices to make with each generating 300 hp => one generating max hp & torgue between 2.5 & 4.0 krpm and one generating max hp & torgue at 4.0 krpm and above. Which are you going to choose. It depends on your application. If I were racing and never below 4- 4.5 krpm, I would choose #2, If I was hauling stuff around town, I wouldn't be driving around town at 5K rpm, I would choose #1.
You would be wise to invest in a blowoff valve also since you are wanting to run such high boost. It will save your turbo's life by avoiding all the backpressure caused during shifts and decceleration after boost. Plus you would probably like the little hiss it gives off during shifts.
Osiris
You would be wise to invest in a blowoff valve also since you are wanting to run such high boost. It will save your turbo's life by avoiding all the backpressure caused during shifts and decceleration after boost. Plus you would probably like the little hiss it gives off during shifts.
Osiris
06-14-2007, 06:23 AM
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Are you trying to make this a race truck or drag truck or a tough haulin' truck? It seems you a saying that you are going to trailer this truck around instead of driving it and pulling trailers with it? Am I right? Is this just a show and tell truck? Are you trying to build a 3VZ to race with? If so, not a good idea. It is a truck motor. It is very strong and durable and meant for somewhat low RPM torguey pulling and plowin' through ☺☺☺☺☺ kind of a motor in a TRUCK. If you are wanting to race it and will be in high rpms and want to generate a lot of power, then you need to get the camry 3VZ motor because of the heads. The truck heads are not meant for outright high RPM power. There was an old thread here where a guy was putting on camry heads with 5VZ intake and then he went off to TN and never heard from again. Bumpin' knows the story, it didn't end up to well if I remember, but a good effort.
You should just drop in a 1UZ V-8 with all this money you are going to spend and be done with it. You are not going to make a racing motor out of the 3VZ.
Sorry,
Osiris
You should just drop in a 1UZ V-8 with all this money you are going to spend and be done with it. You are not going to make a racing motor out of the 3VZ.
Sorry,
Osiris
its all good
06-14-2007, 07:27 AM
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Hey Jay351,
Just to play devil's advocate here. Could the cam have cracked after it was installed and put back together? I don't know about the rung out bolt, but could the cam have gotten damaged later on?
You would think that a dealership would show it to you and ask for money from you to repair it. Maybe there was a flaw in putting it back together that made it occur. It still would have been on their head, but it would have been okay while it was being installed. Perhaps one of the valves could have been a little stuck right after it was put back together and caused the extra stress on the cam to cause it to crack, but then lubed itself well when the oil began circulating. I have to agree that a mechanic wouldn't put a busted part back in, but would point out all that's wrong to get you to pay for something. I could see a dirty mechanic pull out a perfectly good part and show you a broken part and say you need a new one, charge you for a used one or aftermarket one and put your perfectly good one back on, but I wouldn't see a mechanic putting on busted parts without trying to get money out of you first.
Anyway, they shouldn't have been such DHs to you.
Osiris
Just to play devil's advocate here. Could the cam have cracked after it was installed and put back together? I don't know about the rung out bolt, but could the cam have gotten damaged later on?
You would think that a dealership would show it to you and ask for money from you to repair it. Maybe there was a flaw in putting it back together that made it occur. It still would have been on their head, but it would have been okay while it was being installed. Perhaps one of the valves could have been a little stuck right after it was put back together and caused the extra stress on the cam to cause it to crack, but then lubed itself well when the oil began circulating. I have to agree that a mechanic wouldn't put a busted part back in, but would point out all that's wrong to get you to pay for something. I could see a dirty mechanic pull out a perfectly good part and show you a broken part and say you need a new one, charge you for a used one or aftermarket one and put your perfectly good one back on, but I wouldn't see a mechanic putting on busted parts without trying to get money out of you first.
Anyway, they shouldn't have been such DHs to you.
Osiris
06-14-2007, 07:44 AM
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yea sry jay about the hijack,
i just want to try sumthin different, other than swaping a new motor. Yes my yota is gonna be a trailer queen and be use for drag races. But as for truck motors theres a 5vz that produce 800hp. so i think truck motors will be fine. I want high end power since the 3vz has good torque already and plus anything over 300hp is alot of power for my small truck. yea i saw the guy that strap on the cams heads on the 3vz, that seems very cheesey and wouldnt work right. Also im gonna get my head done, with weazys cams and o/s valve n a port n polish which should help out the 3vz with the breathing problems. also i dont know if i should go either watercooler turbo or air cooled?
Im also redoing the whole upper intake manifold plenum. i want to have to 2throttle bodies, one for each 3 cyclinder and that right there will make the air have alot more velocity, smoother and alot more room.
these are my designs of the new intake
i just want to try sumthin different, other than swaping a new motor. Yes my yota is gonna be a trailer queen and be use for drag races. But as for truck motors theres a 5vz that produce 800hp. so i think truck motors will be fine. I want high end power since the 3vz has good torque already and plus anything over 300hp is alot of power for my small truck. yea i saw the guy that strap on the cams heads on the 3vz, that seems very cheesey and wouldnt work right. Also im gonna get my head done, with weazys cams and o/s valve n a port n polish which should help out the 3vz with the breathing problems. also i dont know if i should go either watercooler turbo or air cooled?
Im also redoing the whole upper intake manifold plenum. i want to have to 2throttle bodies, one for each 3 cyclinder and that right there will make the air have alot more velocity, smoother and alot more room.
these are my designs of the new intake
06-14-2007, 12:56 PM
#78
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You got a couple of sharp bends there in the 'mock' manifold. You should use a cross over design to remove as many and as sharp bends that you have as possible.
I think this is
any further than headers, cam and intake, but I'll bite on someone else's wasted dime.
Twin turbos used in sync for each bank means: double the parts and money, plus you need to sync the throttlebodies, piggy-back each MFA into the ECU, monitor both turbos for boost, dual waste gates, dual intercoolers, dual blow-off valves. You will need a stand alone system to run this. A bandaid fix on this type of set up will FOR SURE spell destruction and money lost.
If you run two turbos, then they should both feed into one interecooler and then feed through one system after that for ease of tuning and piping.
Just my 2 cents.
Oh, and just so you know... there is no way to NOT be cheesy when doing this with a 3VZ.
I think this is
any further than headers, cam and intake, but I'll bite on someone else's wasted dime.Twin turbos used in sync for each bank means: double the parts and money, plus you need to sync the throttlebodies, piggy-back each MFA into the ECU, monitor both turbos for boost, dual waste gates, dual intercoolers, dual blow-off valves. You will need a stand alone system to run this. A bandaid fix on this type of set up will FOR SURE spell destruction and money lost.
If you run two turbos, then they should both feed into one interecooler and then feed through one system after that for ease of tuning and piping.
Just my 2 cents.
Oh, and just so you know... there is no way to NOT be cheesy when doing this with a 3VZ.
06-14-2007, 01:23 PM
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Hey Jay351,
Just to play devil's advocate here. Could the cam have cracked after it was installed and put back together? I don't know about the rung out bolt, but could the cam have gotten damaged later on?
You would think that a dealership would show it to you and ask for money from you to repair it. Maybe there was a flaw in putting it back together that made it occur. It still would have been on their head, but it would have been okay while it was being installed. Perhaps one of the valves could have been a little stuck right after it was put back together and caused the extra stress on the cam to cause it to crack, but then lubed itself well when the oil began circulating. I have to agree that a mechanic wouldn't put a busted part back in, but would point out all that's wrong to get you to pay for something. I could see a dirty mechanic pull out a perfectly good part and show you a broken part and say you need a new one, charge you for a used one or aftermarket one and put your perfectly good one back on, but I wouldn't see a mechanic putting on busted parts without trying to get money out of you first.
Anyway, they shouldn't have been such DHs to you.
Osiris
Just to play devil's advocate here. Could the cam have cracked after it was installed and put back together? I don't know about the rung out bolt, but could the cam have gotten damaged later on?
You would think that a dealership would show it to you and ask for money from you to repair it. Maybe there was a flaw in putting it back together that made it occur. It still would have been on their head, but it would have been okay while it was being installed. Perhaps one of the valves could have been a little stuck right after it was put back together and caused the extra stress on the cam to cause it to crack, but then lubed itself well when the oil began circulating. I have to agree that a mechanic wouldn't put a busted part back in, but would point out all that's wrong to get you to pay for something. I could see a dirty mechanic pull out a perfectly good part and show you a broken part and say you need a new one, charge you for a used one or aftermarket one and put your perfectly good one back on, but I wouldn't see a mechanic putting on busted parts without trying to get money out of you first.
Anyway, they shouldn't have been such DHs to you.
Osiris
Well we (more or less johnny since I have no idea anyways..
) was thinking it was perhaps a new guy that pulled it out wrong or installed it wrong, it then had a TINY crack that might have progressed but they might just not care.. Says it took them 9 hours to do my hg on the work sheet.. thats pretty rushed..
06-14-2007, 02:27 PM
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Osiris the v6 motors are all the same...great rod to stroke ratios...great strokes and pretty damn strong.
To say the 3vz-fe is better then the 5vz-fe just because they put the 3vz-fe motor into a car is a wrong way of looking at things.
http://www.mr2board.com/forums/mk-2-v6/ <--- thats where more and more people are putting all sots of Toyota v6's into mr2s....the 5vz is becoming the popular choice because of the engines displacement and potential!
you got a rod to stroke ratio of 1.78 in the 5vz which means REV HAPPY...you may ask why did they do that? Well when they first made the 5vz-fe it was raced in the offroad truck series tacoma, rev'd out at 8000rpm and made well into the 400's N/A...(until they swapped it with the UZ v8's). This 3.4L v6 was then throwin into the market as a torque monster for which it was needed to be. The cams have a very weak duration and the intake manifold is over 26 inchs long which = Tons of low end power but no high range...if you can even call 5k rpm high range!
In my tacoma i have put the 262 cams that have been developed here and i can tell you now that N/A this truck ROCKS, the engine pulls strong right to redline vs DIE after 4k rpm I have yet to dyno it but one day i just may do so.
In my mr2 i plan to build a 300+whp 5vz-fe n/a....
Anyway enough about the 5vz-fe
I have to agree with you in your entire turbo thoery and explanation about 300hp isnt 300hp just because its 300hp.
OSIRIS is also right in asking...what the hell you going to do with your truck? Maybe you explained that already and i read past it for some reason but i will re-read some of this thread...which now has a couple topics inside of it but thats ok!
As for the cams...not likley...that 20 year vet mechanic can say whatever he wants, but i know for a fact that those guys dont even do that work...its all the newbies to scared to admit they ☺☺☺☺ up. ALSO the crack is hard to see if you are not looking for it, i always inspect that area of the cam before removing the cam to make sure that its clear before taking it out. There is NO way the cam will crack when the cam is inside the head mounted perfectly. Maybe you are thinking about a cam cracking in half? If that is what you are thinking then NO thats not what is wrong, if you look up another cam thread Shoes himself posted a picture with the same problem, but instead his is chipped right off.
Anyway i will look back here later and see if i missed something.
To say the 3vz-fe is better then the 5vz-fe just because they put the 3vz-fe motor into a car is a wrong way of looking at things.
http://www.mr2board.com/forums/mk-2-v6/ <--- thats where more and more people are putting all sots of Toyota v6's into mr2s....the 5vz is becoming the popular choice because of the engines displacement and potential!
you got a rod to stroke ratio of 1.78 in the 5vz which means REV HAPPY...you may ask why did they do that? Well when they first made the 5vz-fe it was raced in the offroad truck series tacoma, rev'd out at 8000rpm and made well into the 400's N/A...(until they swapped it with the UZ v8's). This 3.4L v6 was then throwin into the market as a torque monster for which it was needed to be. The cams have a very weak duration and the intake manifold is over 26 inchs long which = Tons of low end power but no high range...if you can even call 5k rpm high range!
In my tacoma i have put the 262 cams that have been developed here and i can tell you now that N/A this truck ROCKS, the engine pulls strong right to redline vs DIE after 4k rpm
I have yet to dyno it but one day i just may do so.In my mr2 i plan to build a 300+whp 5vz-fe n/a....
Anyway enough about the 5vz-fe
I have to agree with you in your entire turbo thoery and explanation about 300hp isnt 300hp just because its 300hp. OSIRIS is also right in asking...what the hell you going to do with your truck? Maybe you explained that already and i read past it for some reason but i will re-read some of this thread...which now has a couple topics inside of it but thats ok!
As for the cams...not likley...that 20 year vet mechanic can say whatever he wants, but i know for a fact that those guys dont even do that work...its all the newbies to scared to admit they ☺☺☺☺ up. ALSO the crack is hard to see if you are not looking for it, i always inspect that area of the cam before removing the cam to make sure that its clear before taking it out. There is NO way the cam will crack when the cam is inside the head mounted perfectly. Maybe you are thinking about a cam cracking in half? If that is what you are thinking then NO thats not what is wrong, if you look up another cam thread Shoes himself posted a picture with the same problem, but instead his is chipped right off.
Anyway i will look back here later and see if i missed something.
