Transmission removal woes...input shaft siezed?!

4WDarren · 06-10-2009, 09:19 PM

1990 4Runner, 22RE, G58 5spd.

Currently am in the process of doing my clutch, rear main seal, etc.. Not my first time doing this job (had the tranny in my '84 pickup in and out many a time), but it's definitely been the worst removal I have experienced... and this is with all the right tools! (good tranny jack, etc..)

I can only get it to slide back about an inch and a half or so (can just see the flywheel teeth), and then it stops. I should mention that even to get the tranny to seperate this much took some good force (prying between the bellhousing and engine-transmission stiffeners). There's lots of freedom for the tranny to move up/down & fore and aft at this point, but it is obvious that something is hanging up in the center somewhere. Even with two of us pulling on the tranny, it does not budge any more.

Is it possible that the input shaft is somehow worn or siezed in the pilot bearing, preventing any further removal?

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abecedarian · 06-10-2009, 10:21 PM

Since the pilot bearing is about 3/8" thick at most, having 1+ inch of motion means it's more likely damage to the input shaft could keeping the clutch disc from sliding off the input shaft. Or something else is interfering with motion... shift levers, cables, electrical, clutch slave cylinder piping, drive shaft still connected? Not saying those are the problem but sometimes we all get scatterbrained and overlook the obvious.

If nothing else is the issue, do you have access to the pressure plate to flywheel bolts? I'm thinking you can rotate it around and loosen the pressure plate from the flywheel.

4WDarren · 06-10-2009, 11:25 PM

Yeah, I had checked and double checked to make sure everything was disconnected and clear...no problems there. Unfortunately I can't quite get to the pressure plate bolts...tranny needs to go back more for that to happen (but I like the way you think!)

corax · 06-11-2009, 03:48 AM

do you have enought room to get some spray lube in on the input shaft? maybe slide the trans back and forth a few times to get whatever to loosen up?

coryc85 · 06-11-2009, 04:32 AM

Perhaps your pilot bearing is fused to the end of your input shaft, and when you pried the tranny back the bearing came out of the flywheel and is now stuck on the end of the shaft and it won't fit through the hole in the clutch disc. I've never seen that happen, usually they are stuck in the flywheel, but hey you never know.

Maybe try spray lube like corax suggested, but I don't know if you could even get it in there behind the clutch.

corax · 06-11-2009, 02:48 PM

or a chain wrapped around the transfer case and attached to the bumper of another truck . . . make sure you chock the wheels on your rig first though

bigtrucknwheels · 06-11-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corax

or a chain wrapped around the transfer case and attached to the bumper of another truck . . . make sure you chock the wheels on your rig first though

Define Eastern PA

I dunno what to tell the OP, but I am watching this thread, as it is intriguing. Sorry haha

corax · 06-11-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtrucknwheels

Define Eastern PA

0.5 hrs NNW of Allentown, but we're moving somewhere in between East Stroudsburg/Hazleton/Wilkes Barre in a few months if our offer is accepted . . . I'm actually driving out to Sunbury tomorrow on business before heading down to Coleman's Surplus

kenbo53 · 06-11-2009, 06:26 PM

probly not your problem since uve done this on toyotas befor but when i did my clutch i had simmilar problems. being that id worked on nothing but old gm stuff befor this where the starter is atached to the block unlike the toyota being atached to the transmision. unfortunatly i didnt discover this untill the lower mount broke off the starter from all the frustrated prying action

Lumpy · 06-11-2009, 06:49 PM

I don't know what your issue is, just subscribing so I know if or when I run into this.

BigTruck, Croax, I have kin in Lewisburg, might try to get a hold of ya if I have time when I head out that way again.

bigtrucknwheels · 06-11-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corax

0.5 hrs NNW of Allentown, but we're moving somewhere in between East Stroudsburg/Hazleton/Wilkes Barre in a few months if our offer is accepted . . . I'm actually driving out to Sunbury tomorrow on business before heading down to Coleman's Surplus

cool beans. I am building a mental list of all the PA members (not too many haha) on this site, who knows, maybe we could orchestrate a wheeling meet this summer like all the west coast folks do.

4WDarren · 06-12-2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corax

or a chain wrapped around the transfer case and attached to the bumper of another truck . . . make sure you chock the wheels on your rig first though

Yeah, the idea had been discussed

Unfortunately, no good way to get a direct pull on it. A friend might drop by with a come-along or two, so we'll see if that works. Tonight I have some time to wrench on it, so we'll see what happens. I will definitely post some pics when I finally get the stupid thing out.
(I'm fairly convinced it's the pilot bearing siezed onto the input shaft)

4WDarren · 06-15-2009, 12:03 AM

FINALLY!!! Got the stupid tranny out! As promised, here's some pics of the final solution. As I was certain that the pilot bearing was stuck on the input shaft, the only logical next step meant to get the pressure plate & clutch disc off the flywheel to make some room to pull the tranny back.

I've got another tranny lined up to install, and as there was no other way of accessing the pressure plate bolts, I got down to business and made an access hole of my own:

At least now I could get the pressure plate and clutch disc to slide back enough to create room to pull the tranny free, and what do ya know, my theory was right:

Stupid pilot bearing! Argh!

For fun, I wanted to see how badly this thing was siezed to the shaft. It took my large puller to pull the stupid thing off, and it fought me all the way to the end:

Good grief! I've never heard of this happening before, but as they say, there's a first time for everything. Let's hope it's the last.

Tubbyfatty · 06-15-2009, 12:10 AM

Wow, what a pain.

I hear putting some anti seize on the shaft works to prevent this. I could be wrong tho.

corax · 06-15-2009, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tubbyfatty

I hear putting some anti seize on the shaft works to prevent this. I could be wrong tho.

x2, sounds like a good idea and just might save you a bit of grief later on

bigtrucknwheels · 06-15-2009, 05:42 AM

nice solution. I am glad it worked out for you!

06-10-2009, 11:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
4WDarren Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: B.C., Canada Posts: 23	Yeah, I had checked and double checked to make sure everything was disconnected and clear...no problems there. Unfortunately I can't quite get to the pressure plate bolts...tranny needs to go back more for that to happen (but I like the way you think!) __________________ '90 Rusty 'Runner in the works I sold my Taco for this??!!

06-11-2009, 03:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
corax Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: eastern PA Posts: 630	do you have enought room to get some spray lube in on the input shaft? maybe slide the trans back and forth a few times to get whatever to loosen up? __________________ -Keith- kb3scj '88 4runner SR5 - 3.0 7MGE eng swap - Marlin HD W56 - 4.56 V6 Thirds - '82 Toyota Celica Supra LSD up front - 33x10.5 BFG KM2's - NWMP Aux Gas Tank - home fab front and rear bumpers - Hannemann fenders - OME Dakar rear springs w/ Bilstein 5150 reservoir shocks Garage Thread "Speed doesn't kill, suddenly becoming stationary does." - Richard Hammond

06-11-2009, 04:32 AM	#5 (permalink)
coryc85 Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: S. FL Posts: 166	Perhaps your pilot bearing is fused to the end of your input shaft, and when you pried the tranny back the bearing came out of the flywheel and is now stuck on the end of the shaft and it won't fit through the hole in the clutch disc. I've never seen that happen, usually they are stuck in the flywheel, but hey you never know. Maybe try spray lube like corax suggested, but I don't know if you could even get it in there behind the clutch. Last edited by coryc85; 06-11-2009 at 04:36 AM.

06-11-2009, 02:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
corax Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: eastern PA Posts: 630	or a chain wrapped around the transfer case and attached to the bumper of another truck . . . make sure you chock the wheels on your rig first though __________________ -Keith- kb3scj '88 4runner SR5 - 3.0 7MGE eng swap - Marlin HD W56 - 4.56 V6 Thirds - '82 Toyota Celica Supra LSD up front - 33x10.5 BFG KM2's - NWMP Aux Gas Tank - home fab front and rear bumpers - Hannemann fenders - OME Dakar rear springs w/ Bilstein 5150 reservoir shocks Garage Thread "Speed doesn't kill, suddenly becoming stationary does." - Richard Hammond

06-11-2009, 06:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
kenbo53 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: brookville pa Posts: 41	probly not your problem since uve done this on toyotas befor but when i did my clutch i had simmilar problems. being that id worked on nothing but old gm stuff befor this where the starter is atached to the block unlike the toyota being atached to the transmision. unfortunatly i didnt discover this untill the lower mount broke off the starter from all the frustrated prying action __________________ 93 pu v6 5speed rear lockright 31mts 87 xtracab mudtruck welded rear 31x12.5 boggers 80 pu for parts pm me if ur looking for glass or interior parts 71 gmc 3/4 ton 05 gmc canyon

06-15-2009, 12:03 AM	#13 (permalink)
4WDarren Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: B.C., Canada Posts: 23	FINALLY!!! Got the stupid tranny out! As promised, here's some pics of the final solution. As I was certain that the pilot bearing was stuck on the input shaft, the only logical next step meant to get the pressure plate & clutch disc off the flywheel to make some room to pull the tranny back. I've got another tranny lined up to install, and as there was no other way of accessing the pressure plate bolts, I got down to business and made an access hole of my own: At least now I could get the pressure plate and clutch disc to slide back enough to create room to pull the tranny free, and what do ya know, my theory was right: Stupid pilot bearing! Argh! For fun, I wanted to see how badly this thing was siezed to the shaft. It took my large puller to pull the stupid thing off, and it fought me all the way to the end: Good grief! I've never heard of this happening before, but as they say, there's a first time for everything. Let's hope it's the last. __________________ '90 Rusty 'Runner in the works I sold my Taco for this??!!

06-15-2009, 12:10 AM	#14 (permalink)
Tubbyfatty Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hillsboro, OR Posts: 1,568	Wow, what a pain. I hear putting some anti seize on the shaft works to prevent this. I could be wrong tho. __________________ 94 4runner / SR5 / 3vz-e / 5spd / 4x4 (duh) / Mudcat EXT 30x 9.5R15s / Marlin Crawler HD Clutch / ISR / Hella 700FFs 100w bulbs / 2 10'' JBL subs / ported sub box / kicker mono amp / Pioneer DEH-P490IB / sitting 1-1.5'' below factory, thanks butt sag...

06-15-2009, 05:42 AM	#16 (permalink)
bigtrucknwheels Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Selinsgrove, PA Posts: 2,064	nice solution. I am glad it worked out for you! __________________ '97 4Runner SR5 V6. 4wd/V6/5spd. Factory rear locker, 2" OME suspension lift, 265/75-R16 BF Goodrich A/T KO's, Gray (in my case Blue/Red) wire mod. '90 4Runner SR5 V6. 4wd/V6/Auto. Complete Part Out! Click or PM! '90 Pickup Xtra Cab DLX. 4wd/V6/Auto. Soon for sale... :( '89 Pickup Std. Cab DLX. 4wd/I4/5spd. 3" BL. Soon for sale... :( ♪♪ Anything your Jeep can do, my Yota can do better. Mine can do anything better than yours ♪♪ Proud Sponsor22re Oil Cap Removed Thread

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