etont

Ok... I know how to find TDC, but how do I know that I am 100% on TDC when you cant see your crank pully?? Am I supposed to be using the cam gear with the dot on it at 12 o'clock for TDC?

I ask because I adjusted my valves according to the cam lobes and the good ol' "finger pop out of the spark plug" / hi positioned screw driver trick. Truck runs and sounds great when the motor is cool, but once warm, starts popping and wants to die. I think the valves are slightly off... due to adjustment not perfectly on TDC...

Help? Thanks... basically... HTF do you find TDC without seeing your crank pully~!? 1986 4runner, 22re.

Thanks!
EtonT

combatcarl

I'm not sure i understand. Your crank pulley should be sticking out in plain view, with timing marks. Unless the marks are way different between 86 and 89, it should be easy to tell when crank is at #1 TDC. Then with valve cover removed, verify that #1 intake and exhaust rockers are slack. (No pressure on valves) I do it without any verification of piston position, just timing marks and valves closed.

cman1

iTrader: (1)

put timing mark on 0,dizzy rotor pointing to #1 spark plug wire.adjust valves,rotate one full revolution,do the rest.

etont

I think I attached the pix correctly. Crank pulley is the one at the way bottom... top pulley is the cam, belt going to the left is the AC, belt going right that is under the cam is for alternator... there are 3 belts off the crank, main pully is way back and cant see it under everything else from the top.

2nd pix is from the bottom so you guys can see what it looks like....

So yea... I cant easily see the pulley from the top where the marker is...

Any ideas?

Thanks!

derockus

iTrader: (1)

Find the notch however you can (maybe from below) and put a dot of whiteout, paint, nail polish, chalk, whatever on the notch. makes it a lot easier to see from the top and helps with timing too. Also use a mirror if you need it.

combatcarl

Ohkay. Here's where I see my marks from, behind the intake tube, straight down. The silver tab behind the pulley is the timing advance marks. Phone pics, so auto focus ftw.

Here's the angle I aim the light from, across from the battery area from outside of intake tube, towards pulley and marks. I don't have a belt in the way yet, but I may see your issue then. Any help?

Chickenman

Do you have the valve cover off? If so then the cam mark should be a 12 o'clock and both rockers arms on the first cylinder should be loose. That is TDC on the compression stroke.

Chickenman

This is from the FSM. If I could figure out how to copy a .pdf I'd post up the picture...

7. ADJUST VALVES CLEARANCE
(a) Set the No.1 cylinder to TDC/compression.
• Turn the crankshaft with a wrench to align the timing marks at TDC. Set the groove on the pulley at the 0 mark position timing mark.
• Check that the rocker arms on the No.1 cylinder are loose and the rockers on No.4 are tight.

If not, turn the crankshaft one complete revolution and align the marks as above.
(b) Adjust the clearance of half of the valves.
• Adjust only those valves indicated by arrows as
shown.
Intake clearance: 0.20 mm (0.008 in.)
Exhaust clearance: 0.30 mm (0.012 in.)

Gamefreakgc

It's a good idea to check the FSM before starting any job. Here it is.

etont

Thanks guys. esp CombatCarl for the pix of the angle to see the pully mark. Hopefully I can get this done today...

combatcarl

I forgot to say it looks like you have a fan shroud on yours. It's been so long since I've had one, I don't know if that gets in the way or not.

etont

It does a little bit, it is also slightly rubbing on one of the pulleys so I was thinking of just removing it. Do you have any overheating issues w/o the shroud?

Gamefreakgc

I believe the shroud is more for protection since it sits around the fan but does not increase or decrease the flow of air. I have mine on and I feel more confident working on the engine knowing I can't chop my fingers off I unless I'm doing something really stupid. You'll want to make sure the pulley will not contact the fan blades at all (as well as other hoses) or you run the risk of them being cut.

combatcarl

I personally have never had issues without the shroud. If it isn't in the way of anything, I'd leave it. Mine came off years ago for timing cover work, and PO never put it back on. I've had lots of old rigs without them, so it never concerned me. Stuck my fingertips in an un-shrouded Willys (metal) fan years ago, so never made that mistake again. Luckily only chafed the fingertips and cracked a couple nails. The only thing I do underhood with engine running is check/set timing and idle, so I have a "procedure" to ensure that soft parts stay out of moving hard parts.

scope103

You're over thinking this. The crank should start out at TDC, but it doesn't have to be exact. The cams are perfectly round for about 200°, with the "point" of the cam taking up the rest. You're measuring the clearance against the round part (http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...e/64tuneup.pdf page EG-2-21). So if the point of the cam is "sorta" pointing up you're fine; even if you're off by 65° or so it won't matter.

Once you get beyond cylinder one, you can't use TDC on the crank pulley anyway. So just turn the crank until the valve you're interested in has the point of the cam pointing up. No need to be any more precise.

etont

Gotcha... that what I sorta thought... I think I found my problem with popping/etc.


So get this... I get under the car to start turning the crank pulley again and the Crank Pulley Bolt is missing. Last time I drove the car I heard a *CLANK* looks through my window, pulled over... didn't see anything so I figured it was ok and I just ran over something. I guess it was the bolt...

Now I am thinking that once the motor is warm, there is enough play in the pulleys to throw off the timing... hence popping and rough idle when warm (not the valves).

New question. Can I just get a new Crank Bolt torque it down, etc. Or do I have to check to make sure everything is still lined up properly. Do the pulleys of the crank have a Key to keep them in place, etc?

Thanks,
Eton

SPARKS89

iTrader: (1)

Yea........that's a problem.

I would hope that you can get a new pully bolt and put it in. You should always double-check everything as you're working. Make sure the pully and it's seating on the crank shaft isn't damaged and that the old bolt didn't break off or strip-out inside the shaft. If all that is good you should be fine putting the new bolt in. After that check your timing and idle speed again. It would also be good to check valve clearance too, just for peace of mind that that isn't another problem you'll have to fix later.

I've never heard of a crank bolt just falling out. If it fell out and didn't break off I'd bet someone has done work on the engine before (possibly a rebuild) and didn't torque it back down like they were supposed to. If it were mine I'd find every bolt I could on that engine and check it with a torque wrench just to ease my mind.

scope103

You should have bought a lottery ticket. That was the luckiest day you'll have for a long time.

The crank pulley has a woodruff key; if the pulley is still on and you don't see anything that looks like the pulley was working on the shaft, you're okay (if the pulley had any play at all you probably need a new crank, pulley, front main seal ....) I doubt that caused your idle problems.

I'm surprised this isn't more common. The spec torque is 186 ft-lbs. Yes, if you STAND on your breaker bar, you STILL won't get it tight enough. There are a lot of folks on this site who will recommend using the starter to remove the crank bolt. Crazy enough, but how do they put it back in? Since they don't have a tool to hold the crank pulley, the crank bolt goes in with an impact wrench or some such, and they end up with as little as 50 ft-lbs.

So you need a crank-holding tool. Lots of very good shop-built ones described on this site. I, of course, like this one: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...h-3vze-137934/

etont

Toyota told me torque spec was 116ft/lbs. Got it on torqued it down. (put the car in 4th gear, had my wife step on the break and torqued it) worked perfectly!

Started it up... but its not running right after warm still... I think the timing is off? checked the valves they looked good.

I will do the timing today. I have the procedure... but to advance/retard the timing all I do is turn the distributor right?

Thanks!
Eton