Starts but will not run without pedal '88 PU
11-17-2007, 08:16 AM
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Starts but will not run without pedal '88 PU
The title pretty much says it all. I recently had the fortunate joy of tracing down an electrical bad connection and starter relay replacement because the truck just wouldn't restart after I shut her down. This happened multiple times, but over a long period (1 year intermittent). The truck now starts but it will not continue to run unless I give it pedal...I can pump the pedal and she runs, but the second I let off pumping the pedal the engine dies...starts right back up though. I can't for the life of me find where to begin looking. The carb is clean, no obvious leaks in the vacuum hoses, and the fuel pump draws the fuel in just fine. Filter inline has been replaced and the fuel pump is located on the cylinder head just in front of the carburetor.
The main issue with the electrical, I believe was not the relay itself but a bad connection at the battery and starter...loose and corroded after so many years. The motor is a 4cyl 22R ...no ups no extras...stock motor. The only thing that has needed replacement is the general things such as battery, belts, etc.. It has nearly 200,000mi on it and never an indication of trouble until now.
This inability to run without pedal assistance was never an issue before the connection from battery to starter dilemma and I'm at a loss as to what to look for. I've read every thread that could possibly be the problem, but no success yet.
Is there a specific relay or sensor that should be checked related to this? If so where is it located at and what kind of tools would be needed to do the check. Be as specific as you can on the pattern to follow to track this down. I have most of what I need in tools, but need some general guidance from someone who may have had this arise in the past and has located a quick down and dirty diagnostic check. I have the Chilton's book on it, but it isn't the greatest in diagnostic guidelines...and the pictures aren't that good either.
The truck doesn't burn any oil, all seals appear intact, and being the 3rd owner, I don't believe it has ever had any issues in running...the truck has been handed down through the family...so I know everyone who drove it. It's always been reliable and I'd like to get her back on the road again.
It is a 4 speed manual which I forgot to mention, just in case that would help someone assist me in diagnosing this issue as a relevant component.
Thanks to anyone and everyone...and when it's finally solved, which I suspect it can be from what I've read here in the replies made on the forum in the past two days, I will give a full accounting of the results so others will be able to draw from the experience.
Richard C. (Panther88)
The main issue with the electrical, I believe was not the relay itself but a bad connection at the battery and starter...loose and corroded after so many years. The motor is a 4cyl 22R ...no ups no extras...stock motor. The only thing that has needed replacement is the general things such as battery, belts, etc.. It has nearly 200,000mi on it and never an indication of trouble until now.
This inability to run without pedal assistance was never an issue before the connection from battery to starter dilemma and I'm at a loss as to what to look for. I've read every thread that could possibly be the problem, but no success yet.
Is there a specific relay or sensor that should be checked related to this? If so where is it located at and what kind of tools would be needed to do the check. Be as specific as you can on the pattern to follow to track this down. I have most of what I need in tools, but need some general guidance from someone who may have had this arise in the past and has located a quick down and dirty diagnostic check. I have the Chilton's book on it, but it isn't the greatest in diagnostic guidelines...and the pictures aren't that good either.
The truck doesn't burn any oil, all seals appear intact, and being the 3rd owner, I don't believe it has ever had any issues in running...the truck has been handed down through the family...so I know everyone who drove it. It's always been reliable and I'd like to get her back on the road again.
It is a 4 speed manual which I forgot to mention, just in case that would help someone assist me in diagnosing this issue as a relevant component.
Thanks to anyone and everyone...and when it's finally solved, which I suspect it can be from what I've read here in the replies made on the forum in the past two days, I will give a full accounting of the results so others will be able to draw from the experience.
Richard C. (Panther88)
11-17-2007, 07:23 PM
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On my 1990 3vze I took the mass airflow apart to change the driver's side spark plugs. Tried to start it up without putting in back on and your exact problem happened to me. I was used to working on Chevys at the time.. and in that case you don't have to have the MAF put together. I went back through and checked my firing order and all the wires, took me FOREVER to just try putting the MAF back together.
I would disconnect your MAF sensor and the plug it back in securely. make sure the vac lines are secure also.
I would disconnect your MAF sensor and the plug it back in securely. make sure the vac lines are secure also.
11-17-2007, 07:32 PM
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On my 1990 3vze I took the mass airflow apart to change the driver's side spark plugs. Tried to start it up without putting in back on and your exact problem happened to me. I was used to working on Chevys at the time.. and in that case you don't have to have the MAF put together. I went back through and checked my firing order and all the wires, took me FOREVER to just try putting the MAF back together.
I would disconnect your MAF sensor and the plug it back in securely. make sure the vac lines are secure also.
I would disconnect your MAF sensor and the plug it back in securely. make sure the vac lines are secure also.
x2 on the fuel cut solenoid
11-17-2007, 07:35 PM
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ahhh.. Right!
Well I'm still not used to YOTA engines... I think I just figured out that my 3vzE's "E" is for EFI?? Probably why he said 22R and not RE. Well sorry to be useless.. but at least I learned a newbie thing!
Well I'm still not used to YOTA engines... I think I just figured out that my 3vzE's "E" is for EFI?? Probably why he said 22R and not RE. Well sorry to be useless.. but at least I learned a newbie thing!
11-18-2007, 08:48 AM
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Check the anti-diesel solenoid on your carb. Make sure you have power [with the ignition on] to the black wire going to the anti diesel solenoid. The white wire is its ground. This picture is of a 1989 carb. Earlier models may not have the white ground wire. With the ignition on, you should be able to hear that solenoid clicking as you connect and disconnect that black wire. This solenoid shuts off fuel to the idle circuit when power is removed.
11-19-2007, 07:47 AM
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Going to take a Look
Thanks for all the responses...I'm going to make an attempt at checking that relay today. Feel like a two-legged mule in a plowing contest sometimes, but I'll get it done as soon as possible.
Edit: Did the test on the Anti-Diesel solenoid and it appears to be getting 12v and you can definitely hear the click when the power is applied. I probed the line beyond the fuse connectors, so I can only say, that this doesn't appear to be the problem. Any other Ideas?
Edit: Did the test on the Anti-Diesel solenoid and it appears to be getting 12v and you can definitely hear the click when the power is applied. I probed the line beyond the fuse connectors, so I can only say, that this doesn't appear to be the problem. Any other Ideas?
Last edited by Panther88; 11-19-2007 at 09:47 AM.
11-21-2007, 01:57 PM
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Fixed - Trash evidently had gotten in the Carb Jets
I finally got sick and tired of checking and re-checking every connection air/electrical related to this problem, so I figured something had to be blocking the carburetor jets. Took a can of Seafoam and dumped it into the tank, poured a bit in the carb., and let it sit overnight. I went and started it this morning and pull a gallon or two through the system to make sure everything was clear going through.
I managed to get enough action from the pedal to get it in motion and it would die out when I got it on the road...but the good news is, I went over a friends house and together we stuck a rag in the carburetor to force it to suck harder on the jets while giving it literal pedal from under the hood...eventually after a few minutes it began to run on it's on...although a bit rough. Stepped up the idle just a bit to keep it running without having to manually keep pressing the pedal to adjust it when stopping, then I drove around for approx. 15 miles (reaching higher speeds as time went by) and it smoothed out a bit more. Once it had a gallon or so run through it (remember it was idled up so the fuel economy wasn't getting any better) , I pulled off to the side and turned the idle back down to where it wasn't racing on when the clutch was disengaged...and it runs like it did the past 20 years...
Simple things right.
Thought I'd pass it on, so others can gain from the experience.
Take Care, and once again, thanks for the advice given. Wasn't exactly the problem, but we didn't know that it couldn't have been.
I managed to get enough action from the pedal to get it in motion and it would die out when I got it on the road...but the good news is, I went over a friends house and together we stuck a rag in the carburetor to force it to suck harder on the jets while giving it literal pedal from under the hood...eventually after a few minutes it began to run on it's on...although a bit rough. Stepped up the idle just a bit to keep it running without having to manually keep pressing the pedal to adjust it when stopping, then I drove around for approx. 15 miles (reaching higher speeds as time went by) and it smoothed out a bit more. Once it had a gallon or so run through it (remember it was idled up so the fuel economy wasn't getting any better) , I pulled off to the side and turned the idle back down to where it wasn't racing on when the clutch was disengaged...and it runs like it did the past 20 years...
Simple things right.
Thought I'd pass it on, so others can gain from the experience.Take Care, and once again, thanks for the advice given. Wasn't exactly the problem, but we didn't know that it couldn't have been.
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