Ravencraft

I've heard nothing but good things thus far about Ironman. I found this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ironm...ayphotohosting

Is it EVERYTHING I need to perform the lift?

Are the shocks any good?

Has anyone INSTALLED this lift?

Any info is appreciated.

elripster

You need to start with what do you want your truck to do. Sure that's everything but those 26mm bars are going to massively stiffen the front suspension. You do NOT need new torsion bars to simply lift the front. You will have to adjust them for the desired lift just the same way you would adjust the ones that are in there now. All they do is make the front flex less.

Anyway, tell us about what you want your truck to do and we can better recommend a kit. There are many kits that come complete, actually all of them do hence their "kit-ness", but they don't all function equally well.

Frank

Ravencraft

Thanks for the quick reply. I have heard that the bigger t-bars do stiffen the front suspension, I guess I didn't put 2+2 and realize it would effect the flex.
Would the addition of bj spacers assist in this area?

Anyway, I'm really not a hardcore offroader... as this is the first yota I've had and really the first vehicle I've had that I could afford to play with much. Now, when I say I can AFFORD to play with it... I don't mean I have tons of money to spend, I mean that I can afford to play with it, possibly break something, and it can sit while I figure out how to fix.

Got off topic. I've never done any crawling, and don't see that in my near future, but I'd really like it to be capable of getting through anything else. I have read on here that with these trucks, you don't REALLY need a lift for off road capability, but I NEED to rear leaves (sagging terribly, and one more than the other) as well as shocks, so I figure why not go with a kit? I hate blocks, and have heard that ifs bracket lifts aren't great. I WANT a lift, I don't NEED one. no more than 3-4 inches I think. And I WANT to put 33's on it (32x11.5 now) Any other suggestions/insight would be helpful.

RustBucket

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't spring for the 26mm t-bars unless you're going to get a big bumper for the front or you're planning to be doing high-speed riding. I am running them and they work pretty well since I have a large TJM and winch up front.

If you wanted to get a really sweet lift/suspension system you might look at Old Man Emu.

frozenSurf

I just bought the same lift from those guys...... I'm not quite sure how I feel about the whole transaction....

Everything showed up, but the rear shocks that they sent me are BDS. After contacting them several times, they have now told me that the shocks are all Gabriel = BDS = Ironman = BS? I contacted BDS, & they said that the shocks will fit my application.

If you do decide to buy from them, just make sure that they are sending you the right stuff before they ship it!

** time to hijack the post **
Now that I have the thick torsion bars, should I put them in?
I will be putting in BJ spacers when I do the lift. My truck is a 2LT diesel 4runner, so I assume that my front end is a little heavier than the 22re or even the V6. I'm currently setting the truck up expedition style & plan on running it at high speeds on logging and fire roads.

Hope this helps & thanks in advance,

frozen

Ravencraft

TIME OUT - I'm hearing no on the thicker torsion bars, and yet, look at the OME kits http://www.rocky-road.com/4runner.html... I realize there may be differences between the companies... but it's the same problem with the thicker TB's right?

Ravencraft

OK, how about this:

2" lift rear leaves from OME
cranked stock tb's
new longer shocks

Better, worse, otherwise?

nathan751

Done the cranked t-bar thing, it kills your flex and ride. I relaxed them back down to stock and put in some low profile bumpstops. Much better ride and flex. The CVs are nearly maxed out at droop, so the bumpstops do add some wheel travel.

If you are going for looks, the cranked torsion bars do okay, but the ride does roughen up a bit. I would look into ball joint spacers for height. I've never used them, but they seem to get decent reviews around here. http://4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/BallJointSpacer.shtml

As for not being capable off road without a lift, I've gone out with mine on 31's and stock suspension and had plenty of fun. Stay away from the deep mud holes at Haspin, but you need more than a lift for those anyway

elripster

Guys, it's as simple as this. Thicker torsion bars cost money and kill flex. Cranking up torsion bars stock or otherwise kills flex but at least it's free.

Ball joint spacers INCREASE flex. Yes, they can be combined with thicker bars but the only reason to put thicker bars in your truck is to stiffen the front end. There is simply no other reason so don't install them unless you need a higher spring rate.

Check out the vendors on our webpage, www.sdori.com. They have kits you can purchase that will function very well with all the parts you need. You'll have a truck that ride great on the street and performs well on the trail.

BTW, longer shocks for the rear axle are great but shocks are not the limiting factor for the front.

Frank

frozenSurf

So, even with an after market front bumper, diesel engine, AND BJ spacers you would still suggest the stock T-bars over the ironman bars?

thanks again

-frozen

Dare44

i would guess u have thicker t-bars to begin with on a diesel but im not sure, i run stock t-bars on my 22re with a bull bar and a winch it seems to be fine and my ride quality is 100x better than with cranked t-bars, idk why a bracket lift is bad i have a 4in trail master bracket lift and it has been to hell and back and is still in perfect condition, 4ft off the ground and a smooth landing altho not on purpose it was still cool

frozenSurf

I'm not actually looking to crank the T-bars, if anything I will be relaxing them to compensate for the lift provided by the BJ spacers.

If I relax the stock ones, will this not reduce the preload and give me a 'sloppy' front end. What I was thinking is by putting in the thicker bars & relaxing them, I can be running a higher spring rate with less preload, thus retaining the responsiveness of the front end.....

does this make any sense?

-froZen

CoedNaked

You need to decide how MUCH lift you want, but I gotta ask - what the hell do you need a lift for? These trucks are quite capable stock. AS soon as you lift your truck, you effectively open the door for several other modifications, all of which will create an addiction that will cost you money. You will LIFT the truck, then you decide you need bigger tires which kills your power, so you need to regear. Well a lift, and bigger tires aren't any good with some body armour - how much money do you want to spend? You can spend thousands of dollars on body armour either as far as custom fab work if you don't know how to do it yourself - it can really become a vicious cycle and I mean that.

The other thing worth mentioning is it's difficult to find longer shocks for a 2" lift. Most lift/longer shocks I've seen spec 3-4" lift or more. Anything below that is just stock - probably why for most 2" lifts lots of guys may decide on body lifts.

You don't exactly sound like an aspiring offroader in all honesty. I am not much of an offroader either. I got the truck as a fishing toy and the modifications I put on it are also a hobby of mine, but a lift is not one of them.

What I would do is just get a set of OME stock ride height medium duty shocks. They will get your truck nice and level, maybe even lift the rear end slightly higher than the front (I have the OME Heavy duty versions). OME has a fantastic reputation for quality aftermarket springs.

As far as shocks go, there are lots of good brands out there. Stock shocks are excellent for ride comfort and absorbing bumps. OME's shocks are supposed to be pretty decent - I have Bilsteins on mine and they have firmed up the ride and which has really enhanced onroad performace. Offroad with bilsteins you feel the bumps a bit more but they do wonders for keeping your tires on the ground. They also do wonders for helping control sway when the truck is loaded which makes for a safer handling truck. I would recommend them in a heart beat and the stock shocks if you didn't want to fork out the $$$ for the bilsteins.

As far as torsion bars go - you can crank your torsion bars but why? It just stiffens the ride. The stock 22.8 MM torsion bars are perfectly tuned for the 31" tires on your truck. They are high quality and if you dont' beat on the thing they will last you a very long time. If you want something slightly beefier, OME has 23.4 MM torsion bars which are apparently very similar to the stock ride quality - just slightly stiffer. But I say if your torsion bars aren't sagging and everything rides ok why fix them? The 25 and 26 mm offerings from Downey, sway away, etc, are way too stiff. They might soften up if you had a cast iron Cummins diesel sitting over top of them but you don't. They are too thick, and too firm.

My vote is to keep it stock height and just get quality shocks, some quality leaf spring replacement packs, like what OME has to offer, maybe an OME steering stabilizer, have your idler arm, tie rod ends and ball joints (wear items on the front suspension) checked out by a suspension/alignment shop and you should be good to go. Your ride quality will be solid, you'll have a truck that will be in top shape to go offroad, and it won't be some hack job, but reliable and no BS, nor will you get caught in the cycle of spending $$$ to lift it higher and higher, or spending money to offset another consequence from something related to your lift.

elripster

Coed, a few things to note. One, shocks don't lift (unless they are air shocks or similar), they simply resist motion based on how fast the tire is trying to move.

I list numerous shocks on my website that will work with these lifts so feel free to check 'em out if you need some.

Frozen, you don't increase or decrease preload just because you have adjusted the torsion bar nut. Preload is a function of the truck's weight, which didn't change when you adjusted, and the angle the upper control arm (UCA) makes with the ground which does change when you adjust. Raising the truck steepens the angle and REDUCES the preload on the springs. That is why the ride gets worse, they don't see as much torque and therefore don't flex. When you run the truck at or near stock height, the UCA is closer to level and you have more torque and more flex. Ball joint spacers allow that UCA to remain more level and thus flex better. The result is better ride quality on the road and better flex on the trail.

Also, regarding the t-bars, 26mm is on the larger side period. I would suggest first doing the spacers and see how the truck works for you. If you decide that the front is too soft, then go up one size. The stiffness of a torsion bar is a function of its diameter raised to the 4th power and going from 22.8 to 26mm is a huge increase.

Search on diameter, torsion bar, etc... and you can read up a bit more on it which will help you better select the appropriate torsion bar if you find you need them.

I have 31's with spacers and while I do intend to go up in tire size the truck looks fine and I could stay with 31's if I wished. Heck, you can fit 33X10.5's stock though so modding the suspension at least in my case, was really done to improve flex and let me absorb a larger hit without bottoming.

Frank

frozenSurf

Thanks Frank! I guess that tuning the front end on a Toyota is a bit different than tuning a DH racing bike! LOL Looks like the stock T-Bars will stay.

Cheers,
Jeff

Ravencraft

Hey fellas, thanks for all the help. I really struggle with whether or not to do a lift. And as much as I WANT to, I realize that it would be mostly aesthetic in nature. And, I do realize what you say about it opening the door to spending a ton of money.

So, new thoughts... OME rear spring packs. Maybe HD as I plan on adding a tire carrier of some sort and I do haul firewood and fenceposts regularly. New Shocks all the way around, stock height. OME, Bilstein, Rancho, I'll look around. Also, OME Steering Stabilizer.

Now, with that said, what else is of immediate concern w/suspension. Shackles? Bushings? Lo-pro bumps?

Keep the info coming... I really appreciate the help.

FROZEN - Hijack away buddy, I don't feel as bad about asking these questions that I'm SURE have been covered numerous times when someone else is joining in!!!

CoedNaked

The front suspension wear items are idler arms, ball joints, and to a less extent, tie rod ends. If those are in good shape, then you're good to go as far as the front suspension is concerned. Also have a look at your CV boots too.

Lo profile bump stops have limited benefits - stick with what's there, it'll save your teeth.

elripster

Do you find your low pros to be harsh? I have bj spacers at 1" of lift and I rarely make contact with them. When I do it's not excessively harsh. Off road the tires are aired down so she's nice and smooth.

I think if I jumped more, I'd leave the stock compression stops in for the added protection because that bottoms the suspension so often. On the trails a little extra up travel is nice.

Frank

frozenSurf

I know this question has been asked before, but which bumpstops do you NOT replace when using the BJ spacers?

-frozen