head gasket time. . . .

ayoung101 · 09-27-2009, 09:56 AM

so i'm 90% sure my coolant leak (leaking outside of the engine, not inside) is coming from the head gasket in 2 different places (1 major leak in the rear and 1 minor leak up front). right now i'm laid off and so have plenty of time to work on it. any suggestions on how to be 100% sure on figuring out where a leak is coming from?

also, any pointers on head gasket R&R for a 22re? any hidden bolts, anything specific i should look at while i'm at it, any "stupid moments" i should be aware of to try and avoid? any good diagrams, pictures, etc. that i might find useful?

i did the timing chain awhile back but just put another plastic guide back in place of the missing one. i figure i can upgrade it to a metal guide while i'm at it. can i get a metal one from toyota or do i have to special order it?

thanks.

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BLKNBLU · 09-27-2009, 10:19 AM

Pretty much all the tips and links I have are in this thread at posts 8,12, and 22.

http://www.yotatech.com/f116/85-22r-...e-help-178123/

Also search Iamsuperbleeder and olharleyman as they both just did nice write ups with lots of pics for entire engine rebuilds. While you don't need all of what they posted, the head portions should prove useful.

Personally I wouldn't bother with the t chain guide if you're not having trouble with it. The job will be much quicker, easier, and cheaper if you can leave it alone. On the other hand if you find a problem once you get in there, then do it, of course.

I can't say enough good about engnbldr and his parts and service. He has the metal backed guide if you decide to go that route. The gasket and bolt kit I got from him was fantastic. While you don't technically need new bolts on the 22re, I would do it, especially in light of the fact you are having a leak on your current setup.

Good luck. Oh...and take lots and lots of pics before you tear down. They can be lifesavers during reassembly.

BLKNBLU · 09-27-2009, 10:21 AM

Oh yeah. Did you do the t chain yourself last time around? If yes, I'll assume you know your way around yanking a head already.

ayoung101 · 09-29-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLKNBLU

Oh yeah. Did you do the t chain yourself last time around? If yes, I'll assume you know your way around yanking a head already.

yeah, i changed the timing chain myself a few years back, but we were able to do it without pulling the head.

thadlinkwent · 09-29-2009, 10:12 AM

Its not hard. Follow the fsm and read up on it from threads in here. I was lucky enough the head and deck of the block weren't warped at all.

ayoung101 · 09-30-2009, 11:53 AM

wow. i'm down to just having the intake and the head left, and i just realized i made a HUUUGGE mistake. i don't have any beer. and now i don't have any way of going to get beer. crap.

ayoung101 · 09-30-2009, 11:54 AM

oh, and next question, any tips on removing the intake? the exhaust was surprisingly easy, even with rusted ass bolts. i don't know where to start with the intake though.

Lumpy · 09-30-2009, 12:13 PM

This is a good read and still going.
http://www.yotatech.com/f116/92-toy-...thread-188472/

the intake comes out in 2 pieces and the wiring harness that runs through it heads back to the trans. It's not that bad. Mark and label everything and put all the bolts in their own cup or bag of sorts. There is a bolt that runs through the thermostat that you need a allen key for. DO NOT FORGET about this.

ayoung101 · 09-30-2009, 01:59 PM

2 questions:
1. how do i get the camshaft sprocket bolt loose? luckily, i put it in TDC before i removed the distributor so i can get it back without too much problem, but it's impossible to get that bolt loose without turning the engine. i even tried putting one wrench on the crank bolt to try to hold it in place and i couldn't budge it. i can think of 2 things, neither of which i'm sure will work. 1 is the starter trick, which i doubt will work cuz now i have tons of electrical stuff undone. and 2nd is maybe putting it in gear, having my wife stomp down on the brake so the engine won't turn over unless it causes the clutch to slip and wrench the hell out of it. are there better ways?

and 2. after a ton of work (and a lot of swearing) i finally got the top 1/2 of the intake off. even with it off i still don't see me removing the lower half intake bolts very easily. is it necessary? can i just leave it attached to the head and pull it up with the head?

Lumpy · 09-30-2009, 02:05 PM

1. yes leave it in gear and give it hell. I think I put a screw drive in the hole and got it that way but as 92 Toy found out they will break. Although he was breaking the crank loose. Anyway put it in gear and hold the brake.

2. You can remove the head with the lower intake off but you have to remove the fuel rail and the electrical harness from the Tranny. It will make it more cumbersome as well.

I'd remove the lower intake...It's not as bad as it seems. You will need to remove (I believe) 4 bolts and 2 nuts and the hidden one under the thermostat. There are also 2 pipes that need removed that wrap behind the motor.

peapicker · 09-30-2009, 02:29 PM

x2 on putting it in gear, put it in 5th though, probley wont have to hold the brake. Good luck

ayoung101 · 10-05-2009, 12:58 PM

update: so i got the head completely loose. lower intake is still attached cuz i couldn't get to all the bolts.

so any thoughts on whether to reuse head bolts? a few of the head bolts gave me absolute hell. when i did get them out, they were gunked up pretty bad, but it didn't appear that the bolt itself was damaged. the threads seem ok, just tons of gunk/sludge in the threads, hence my problem removing them.

anyways, so far, the cheapeast set of bolts i can find is $25. the freakin' head gasket was less than that! just curious as to what your thoughts are on reusing the bolts vs. buying a new set. i'm just thinking about any stress they might have had due to yielding etc that might make the clamp load vary when i torque the head back on, etc. . .

peapicker · 10-05-2009, 02:18 PM

buy the new ones! Those old bolts can stretch! I know it sounds crazy, after a bolt is torqed it is lengthend a bit.

Tubbyfatty · 10-05-2009, 03:24 PM

DO NOT REUSE HEAD BOLTS! These are stretch bolts. Idk about the 22re but on the 3vz you torque em down then give them two(2) 90* turns.

ayoung101 · 10-05-2009, 04:04 PM

crap, i was kinda worried they would plastically deform. so who can get new bolts for me cheap? the cheapest i can find is $37 so far.

olharleyman · 10-05-2009, 04:40 PM

engnbldr.com
I have his set on my rebuild and am really really happy with his stuff and you can't beat his word for replacement on his parts true to his word no questions asked replaced with out any issue's replaced.

jsn_stockard · 10-05-2009, 05:51 PM

Peace of mind isn't always cheap. It's a bit late now, but I use a bunch of sandwich bags and label them with a sharpie when I do deep teardowns

xwing777 · 10-05-2009, 06:12 PM

I just went through this and 2 tips from my install time:
1) be very careful of your heater core tubes. You can bump them and break them very easy and its very costly if you do (time and money) ask me how i know

I wonder how many have done this as a lot of under hood pics show the heater core bypassed

2) watch the sensors at front of intake below t-stat housing. Its in the perfect location to break (again ask me how i know

)

As for head bolts i installed new ones but dont get why some say there stretch design but you need to retorque them after you run them a while?

If there already stretched and you re-torque them..is it not the same as using old bolts?

ayoung101 · 10-07-2009, 12:07 PM

UPDATE:

well the good news is that i got everything back in one piece. i turned the crank pulley 2 full revs to make sure there was no contact with anything before starting it up. good news: it started up and ran!

bad news: the only leak i had time to see was a gas leak, i could easily see where it was coming from. i screwed up something with the main fuel line that goes into the bottom of the intake. it's the one with a 19mm fluid bolt. gas is just pouring out of there, even though i still had enough fuel to actually run the engine without it sputtering (but it took probably a total of 15 seconds of cranking before it fired up the first time). so now i'm going to go back out there and start removing things again so i can get to it to see what's wrong. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY TIPS ON THIS? after i gain access to that area, i'll come back and check this before i touch it.

peapicker · 10-07-2009, 12:18 PM

If it is the one im thinking of its a banjo bolt. Check and make sure there is a copper washer on each side of the fuel line fitting. If it still leaks, parts store has these, replace with new ones.

Lumpy · 10-07-2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peapicker

if it is the one im thinking of its a banjo bolt. Check and make sure there is a copper washer on each side of the fuel line fitting. If it still leaks, parts store has these, replace with new ones.

2x...

92 TOY · 10-07-2009, 12:46 PM

Whoa! I'm late to the party.

LUMPY thanks for the mention.

Are you done already?? Holy Hell ! I'm molasses in January.

ayoung101 · 10-07-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92 TOY

Whoa! I'm late to the party.

LUMPY thanks for the mention.

Are you done already?? Holy Hell ! I'm molasses in January.

ha, yep, it's all back together. started last. . . .wednesday i think. so took about a week total, working at most 2-3 hours a day. honestly, this job would be really easy if it wasn't for the intake. i've had so many problems with my damn intake.

92 TOY · 10-07-2009, 02:45 PM

Check out my mess......see the GREEN link to my thread.

ayoung101 · 10-07-2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peapicker

If it is the one im thinking of its a banjo bolt. Check and make sure there is a copper washer on each side of the fuel line fitting. If it still leaks, parts store has these, replace with new ones.

yes, it was the banjo bolt, and yes, you were right, i apparently dropped one off re-installing it. surprisingly enough, i found it up on one of my frame members. had to re-remove the intake, air duct, and some other lines to get to it. and then i stripped some threads re-installing it. P.I.T.A. i hate when they thread aluminum. luckily it was a through hole so i just found a longer bolt and a nut.

NEXT problem, now i got a leak at the LITTLE banjo bolt waaay up on top of the intake manifold (at least i can get to this one without removing anything.) i'm assuming this one has copper washers too. mine has neither. and now i can't get it to stay running without revving it (starts up every time though), so i'm assuming this is the problem. unfortunately i couldn't find those washers anywhere, so as soon as i can get a ride to the auto parts store i'll pick up some new ones.

09-27-2009, 10:19 AM	#2 (permalink)
BLKNBLU Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Gilbert, Arizona Posts: 1,668	Pretty much all the tips and links I have are in this thread at posts 8,12, and 22. http://www.yotatech.com/f116/85-22r-...e-help-178123/ Also search Iamsuperbleeder and olharleyman as they both just did nice write ups with lots of pics for entire engine rebuilds. While you don't need all of what they posted, the head portions should prove useful. Personally I wouldn't bother with the t chain guide if you're not having trouble with it. The job will be much quicker, easier, and cheaper if you can leave it alone. On the other hand if you find a problem once you get in there, then do it, of course. I can't say enough good about engnbldr and his parts and service. He has the metal backed guide if you decide to go that route. The gasket and bolt kit I got from him was fantastic. While you don't technically need new bolts on the 22re, I would do it, especially in light of the fact you are having a leak on your current setup. Good luck. Oh...and take lots and lots of pics before you tear down. They can be lifesavers during reassembly. __________________ 86 4Runner, custom Sonoran Steel rear bumper, 4Crawler 1" body lift, rock sliders from Richard Stubbs, rear Lockright, SAS w/ARB My build thread. http://www.yotatech.com/f66/blknblu-s-sac-155872/

09-27-2009, 10:21 AM	#3 (permalink)
BLKNBLU Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Gilbert, Arizona Posts: 1,668	Oh yeah. Did you do the t chain yourself last time around? If yes, I'll assume you know your way around yanking a head already. __________________ 86 4Runner, custom Sonoran Steel rear bumper, 4Crawler 1" body lift, rock sliders from Richard Stubbs, rear Lockright, SAS w/ARB My build thread. http://www.yotatech.com/f66/blknblu-s-sac-155872/

09-29-2009, 10:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
thadlinkwent Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Marysville, Wa Posts: 65	Its not hard. Follow the fsm and read up on it from threads in here. I was lucky enough the head and deck of the block weren't warped at all. __________________ 1986 Toyota Pickup 22r 5-Speed 3 inch body lift rancho torsion bars and shocks 31X10.50X15 1st toyota

09-30-2009, 11:53 AM	#6 (permalink)
ayoung101 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: detroit, mi Posts: 628	wow. i'm down to just having the intake and the head left, and i just realized i made a HUUUGGE mistake. i don't have any beer. and now i don't have any way of going to get beer. crap. __________________ current rides: 89 4-cyl 5-speed 4runner, 32x11.5 BFG AT's, 2" butt lift, wet okoles seat covers, Sony cd+mp3 deck with 100W pioneers and a 1200W sub system, and a slightly altered 2nd gen's brush guard. also have a 1997 yamaha fzr600

09-30-2009, 11:54 AM	#7 (permalink)
ayoung101 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: detroit, mi Posts: 628	oh, and next question, any tips on removing the intake? the exhaust was surprisingly easy, even with rusted ass bolts. i don't know where to start with the intake though. __________________ current rides: 89 4-cyl 5-speed 4runner, 32x11.5 BFG AT's, 2" butt lift, wet okoles seat covers, Sony cd+mp3 deck with 100W pioneers and a 1200W sub system, and a slightly altered 2nd gen's brush guard. also have a 1997 yamaha fzr600

09-30-2009, 01:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
ayoung101 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: detroit, mi Posts: 628	2 questions: 1. how do i get the camshaft sprocket bolt loose? luckily, i put it in TDC before i removed the distributor so i can get it back without too much problem, but it's impossible to get that bolt loose without turning the engine. i even tried putting one wrench on the crank bolt to try to hold it in place and i couldn't budge it. i can think of 2 things, neither of which i'm sure will work. 1 is the starter trick, which i doubt will work cuz now i have tons of electrical stuff undone. and 2nd is maybe putting it in gear, having my wife stomp down on the brake so the engine won't turn over unless it causes the clutch to slip and wrench the hell out of it. are there better ways? and 2. after a ton of work (and a lot of swearing) i finally got the top 1/2 of the intake off. even with it off i still don't see me removing the lower half intake bolts very easily. is it necessary? can i just leave it attached to the head and pull it up with the head? __________________ current rides: 89 4-cyl 5-speed 4runner, 32x11.5 BFG AT's, 2" butt lift, wet okoles seat covers, Sony cd+mp3 deck with 100W pioneers and a 1200W sub system, and a slightly altered 2nd gen's brush guard. also have a 1997 yamaha fzr600

09-30-2009, 02:29 PM	#11 (permalink)
peapicker Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Morganton, NC Posts: 181	x2 on putting it in gear, put it in 5th though, probley wont have to hold the brake. Good luck

10-05-2009, 12:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
ayoung101 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: detroit, mi Posts: 628	update: so i got the head completely loose. lower intake is still attached cuz i couldn't get to all the bolts. so any thoughts on whether to reuse head bolts? a few of the head bolts gave me absolute hell. when i did get them out, they were gunked up pretty bad, but it didn't appear that the bolt itself was damaged. the threads seem ok, just tons of gunk/sludge in the threads, hence my problem removing them. anyways, so far, the cheapeast set of bolts i can find is $25. the freakin' head gasket was less than that! just curious as to what your thoughts are on reusing the bolts vs. buying a new set. i'm just thinking about any stress they might have had due to yielding etc that might make the clamp load vary when i torque the head back on, etc. . . __________________ current rides: 89 4-cyl 5-speed 4runner, 32x11.5 BFG AT's, 2" butt lift, wet okoles seat covers, Sony cd+mp3 deck with 100W pioneers and a 1200W sub system, and a slightly altered 2nd gen's brush guard. also have a 1997 yamaha fzr600

10-05-2009, 02:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
peapicker Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Morganton, NC Posts: 181	buy the new ones! Those old bolts can stretch! I know it sounds crazy, after a bolt is torqed it is lengthend a bit.

10-05-2009, 03:24 PM	#14 (permalink)
Tubbyfatty Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hillsboro, OR Posts: 1,606	DO NOT REUSE HEAD BOLTS! These are stretch bolts. Idk about the 22re but on the 3vz you torque em down then give them two(2) 90* turns. __________________ 94 4runner / SR5 / 3vz-e / 5spd / 4x4 (duh) / Mudcat EXT 30x 9.5R15s / Marlin Crawler HD Clutch / ISR / Hella 700FFs 100w bulbs / 2 10'' JBL subs / ported sub box / kicker mono amp / Pioneer DEH-P490IB / sitting 1-1.5'' below factory, thanks butt sag...

10-05-2009, 04:04 PM	#15 (permalink)
ayoung101 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: detroit, mi Posts: 628	crap, i was kinda worried they would plastically deform. so who can get new bolts for me cheap? the cheapest i can find is $37 so far. __________________ current rides: 89 4-cyl 5-speed 4runner, 32x11.5 BFG AT's, 2" butt lift, wet okoles seat covers, Sony cd+mp3 deck with 100W pioneers and a 1200W sub system, and a slightly altered 2nd gen's brush guard. also have a 1997 yamaha fzr600

10-05-2009, 04:40 PM	#16 (permalink)
olharleyman Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: maryland Posts: 3,291	engnbldr.com I have his set on my rebuild and am really really happy with his stuff and you can't beat his word for replacement on his parts true to his word no questions asked replaced with out any issue's replaced. __________________ 1990 4 runner 5 Speed Pro Comp Stage II 4" Lift 6" coils rear Aussie Locker front 5.29's Front And Rear 35 x 12.5 x 15 MT's Micky Thompson Classic II Wheels Super Charged 3.4 on the way 1993 SAS 4runner 22re 5 speed 4" front 5"rear 5.29's 35 x 12.5 BFG KM'S Dick cepek DC 1's 88 stock 4runner 3.0 auto for now 1955 Harley Davidson Springer Stock 1955 Hardtail Frame 4 Speed Kick Start Only 1998 Harley Custom Dresser 107 rwhp 139 ft.lbs.trq.

10-05-2009, 05:51 PM	#17 (permalink)
jsn_stockard Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gainesville Texas Posts: 558	Peace of mind isn't always cheap. It's a bit late now, but I use a bunch of sandwich bags and label them with a sharpie when I do deep teardowns __________________ www.stockardmaintenancesolution.com Leave the trail a cleaner place than it was before you got there

10-05-2009, 06:12 PM	#18 (permalink)
xwing777 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 31	I just went through this and 2 tips from my install time: 1) be very careful of your heater core tubes. You can bump them and break them very easy and its very costly if you do (time and money) ask me how i know I wonder how many have done this as a lot of under hood pics show the heater core bypassed 2) watch the sensors at front of intake below t-stat housing. Its in the perfect location to break (again ask me how i know ) As for head bolts i installed new ones but dont get why some say there stretch design but you need to retorque them after you run them a while? If there already stretched and you re-torque them..is it not the same as using old bolts?

10-07-2009, 12:07 PM	#19 (permalink)
ayoung101 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: detroit, mi Posts: 628	UPDATE: well the good news is that i got everything back in one piece. i turned the crank pulley 2 full revs to make sure there was no contact with anything before starting it up. good news: it started up and ran! bad news: the only leak i had time to see was a gas leak, i could easily see where it was coming from. i screwed up something with the main fuel line that goes into the bottom of the intake. it's the one with a 19mm fluid bolt. gas is just pouring out of there, even though i still had enough fuel to actually run the engine without it sputtering (but it took probably a total of 15 seconds of cranking before it fired up the first time). so now i'm going to go back out there and start removing things again so i can get to it to see what's wrong. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY TIPS ON THIS? after i gain access to that area, i'll come back and check this before i touch it. __________________ current rides: 89 4-cyl 5-speed 4runner, 32x11.5 BFG AT's, 2" butt lift, wet okoles seat covers, Sony cd+mp3 deck with 100W pioneers and a 1200W sub system, and a slightly altered 2nd gen's brush guard. also have a 1997 yamaha fzr600

10-07-2009, 12:18 PM	#20 (permalink)
peapicker Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Morganton, NC Posts: 181	If it is the one im thinking of its a banjo bolt. Check and make sure there is a copper washer on each side of the fuel line fitting. If it still leaks, parts store has these, replace with new ones.

10-07-2009, 12:46 PM	#22 (permalink)
92 TOY Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,083	Whoa! I'm late to the party. LUMPY thanks for the mention. Are you done already?? Holy Hell ! I'm molasses in January. __________________ 1992 4x4 shortbed /22re/auto/192,000 miles--original owner(rebuild in process) 1988 SR5 4runner /V6/5 speed/248,000 miles/bought April 2009/*UNDER CONSTRUCTION* 2006 SR5 4runner (the wife's)....still being paid for... >>>>Check out My SLOOOOOOW Re-build Thread<<<< http://www.yotatech.com/f116/92-toy-...-start-188472/

10-07-2009, 02:45 PM	#24 (permalink)
92 TOY Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,083	Check out my mess......see the GREEN link to my thread. __________________ 1992 4x4 shortbed /22re/auto/192,000 miles--original owner(rebuild in process) 1988 SR5 4runner /V6/5 speed/248,000 miles/bought April 2009/*UNDER CONSTRUCTION* 2006 SR5 4runner (the wife's)....still being paid for... >>>>Check out My SLOOOOOOW Re-build Thread<<<< http://www.yotatech.com/f116/92-toy-...-start-188472/

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