toyaholic

We find it is best to run the engine at 1500 to 2000 RPM for at least 20-30
minutes. The rocker arm is a slide follower, the idea is to keep lots of
oil up there until they bed in.
Ted

wooops. well i guess i'm screwd. i didn't do that. i'll let yall know how long it takes for my cam to poop on me if it ever does.

EWAYota

From what I read about the cam, new rockers and springs aren't need if current ones are in good condition. The current springs and rockers I have currently, only have 10-15k on them, so I would assume I don't need them. Rebuttle?

I know that the 22RE is a very simple engine, thats why, in the begining, I wasn't too worried about getting deep into this. After putting it together the first time and having issues that I feel I probably shouldn't of had, with help from the manual, I am very skitish about trying it again. I don't want to damage any of the new parts I have ordered, nor do I want to have to tear it down once again and order another set of gaskets.
I'm sure, after talking to a couple shops and getting quotes, my mind will be forcefully decided for me from a finacial stand point and I'll once again attempt this I would feel more comforatable with another set of hands and viewpoint while installing everything, but I am having zero luck finding a knowledgable person nearby.

bodo

Most cams that I have used had a disclaimer saying that if you don't use new rockers they will not warranty the camshaft. I would NEVER put old rockers on a new cam but that's just me.

YotaJunky

I just did my timing chain last night. If you're going to install the driver's side steel backed guide, make sure you use 2 oil pan bolts instead of the original bolts used for the plastic guide. The original bolts were designed to accommodate the thicker plastic guides and you'll notice that the steel backed ones are thinner. Also, make sure you prime the oil pump with vaseline or MP grease before you start it up.

Troy

EWAYota

I'm not sure on Ted's Cam warranty, but I'll check to see.
From his ebay auction:
Both good points and both noted. Thank you.

engnbldr

>>>*With most engines, I would tend to agree, especially any that utilize a lifter that must rotate. In those cases both the cam lobe and the heel of the tappet are cam ground to encourage rotation, this distributes oil.

With our 22R design, the pad is curved and the lobe is curved, both directional. Oil runs ahead of the loading point in the exact same manner as it does with the engine bearings, so in theory the wedge created by the oil causes the metal surfaces to seperate. The pulse action as the pad crosses the lash clearence point then recovers oil volume for the next cycle, plus oil is distributed through the oil oriface in the arm (less than you might expect, though).

Thus no metal to metal contact means zero wear, discounting mild wear each time the engine is started. Once scarring begins, it will continue because it will shear the oil wedge and failure is a guarantee.

In this case, I feel that a rocker pad that is unscarred and in reasonable shape is no different than a new one, the stock rocker arm is so durable that we find about 80% perfectly fine which is nice since factory ones are over $20 each. Springing with the hardearned for a full set of them can mean the light bill doesn't get paid. I say perfectly good used is the same as perfectly good new.

*If in the budget? Can't hurt a thing....can I have the old ones please?

Many aftermarket brands are much cheaper, but we also found the aftermarket ones problematic to break in. So much so that we no longer will supply them, instead refacing the stock ones or buying new OEM. Once broken in, we found the aftermarket to serve fine, but the slightest scratch early and we had pads dropping loose, plus a failure rate too high to deal with, it was in the 5-6% range. Since I know of just three sources of replacement arms, I tried them all.

With the factory ones, the failure rate for cams is under .2% and has stayed at that rate for over 3 years, we produce at capacity now (1000/year) so that's a lot of sticks!

I did run one test, I heated some rocker arms to see what happened. The OEM just sit there, hot. The pads came loose on the aftermarket ones I checked, all of them. I just threw the rest of my stock in the big barrel.

*Folks have my phone number you see, it's posted on my website and I tend to answer it when I can, I don't own a message machine.

I doubt it is the pad, but the alloy of the arm itself. The pads rockwell to the same as the factory. I haven't gotten around to proving the alloy yet, though. I suspect the OEM uses a silica/copper aluminum alloy, like our new heads do. This would explain the reduced expansion rate.

So I feel warrenty should apply, even with used arms. In this case, I must trust the installer to check to be sure, so far it is working very well. Bolt on aftermarket, we will still warrenty our end but we gripe about it...*LOL**....*EB

titicaca

i helped ovrrdrive on his and it was easier to pull the head on his but i did it a few weeks later on a buddys 86 22re (same exact engine) and we didnt pull the pan because the guide wasnt broken, he had the tensioner go bad on him but caught it before it damaged the guide. it was a real tight fit to do it with out the pan and head off but it did slide together fairly easily compaired to ovrrdrive's. the trick was a rubber mallet to tap it in and a small punch or screwdriver to keep the gasket lined up on the top. also the permatex gasket sealer helps to keep the timing cover gaskets in place while you slide er in.if it were me id always pull the pan but it can be done with the head still bolted on. if it were me id probabally pull both , or even jerk the whole engine since im already that far, but if it was my dd id do it the fastest easiest way possible as long as it was done right.

YotaJunky

I just did my timing cover last weekend with the head and pan still in place and I used a rubber mallet to "tap" it in. I wound up warping the head gasket that sits between the timing cover and the front lip of the head. In my opinion, it's better to either pull the head or pan, or both before installing the timing cover. I spent a few hours this morning pulling things apart and doing it properly this time. It went a lot faster this time around (about 3.5 hours).


Troy

EWAYota

Well i started tearing it back apart last night. Got the throttle body and intake off, then it got dark. Heading out to take the exhaust off and maybe get the head off tonight.

I swear, I want to push this truck off a cliff sometimes.

EWAYota

head off, cam out. Tomorrow, hopefully before its dark, I'll finish taking the oil pan off, and do some gasket scraping. After Ted's post above about the cam, Monday or Tuesday I'll order the cam and locate a place to take the head in to get a couple bolt holes re-coiled. Then I'll just need to get new bolts for the timing cover and get a gasket for one of the water pipes.

Then it'll be a matter of trying to piece everything back together and running to the hardware store for misc. lost bolts, lol.

EWAYota

Last part ordered on Tuesday morning, arrived last night after our "Day Early Turkey Day" dinner
261C from engnblder.


Happened to stumble across DWT from Pirate4x4 last week, dropped into his garage to take a look at his Toy he's built and beat to a pulp. Sometime early next week should have my truck over at his house and put back together. Hoping to have this thing running in good shape soon.

fire5

I just received new cylinder head, bolts and cam (all stock), from engnbldr and found this whole thread very interesting. This work I did after a timing chain failure and decided to spruce up my 86 with some good stuff. I was curious about my rockers as well, had found them to be in good shape, read Ted's post and feel confident about using them. It seems we are at the same stage as far as getting the yota's running again. Good Luck!

EWAYota

right on! we'll see who gets their's done first!

fire5

hows it coming along?

EWAYota

hoping for this weekend, but it depends on what my schedule and my mentor's schedule look like. he has some more important tasks to tackle currently, and i'm in no position to A-ask him to hurry up and b-expect him to drop everything to help me. I have tomorrow off and Friday so hopefully I can get some progress done on it during that time.

How about you?

fire5

I've got the head back on, but I'm having trouble seating the upper chain sprocket onto the cam - searching arround for some advice.
Yeah, getting help can be difficult sometimes.