Steve777

The 87 Runner I just got had a problem before I purchased it; it would jump out of 1st gear. All the other gears stayed engaged, but with first it would jump out 100% of the time, fast start or slow start didn't seem to matter. So the first thing I tried was a new shifter seat and bushing from Marlin Crawler. I put that in (and in the process found a fairly new toyota seat with a soft rubber washer under it, hmmm, maybe the PO did try to fix this in spite of what he said), with signs that an older seat had disintegrated in there before. The Marlin seat and bushing have helped alot. In fact on the first drive, I declared victory since I did not have any popping out of first. However after a few more short drives, I've noticed that there are times, maybe 10%, when it will still pop out of first gear. But 90% of the time it's fine. No particular pattern to it, but every so often it just won't stay in 1st without a hand on the shifter. When it pops out, it moves the shifter about 1/2 way back to neutral, just far enough so that 1st is not engaged anymore. Hard starts, slow starts doesn't seem to make any difference. Most of the time it works and works fine. But there still is that 10% or so... So I'd like to get this fixed 100%, and I am wondering if there is anything else I can do, short of a new/rebuilt tranny? Not being a transmission expert, I was wondering what the mechanism is that holds the tranny in a certain gear. Aren't there spring loaded balls and dedents on the shifting rods to hold a gear in position? If so, could the spring/ball mechanism for first be sticky or broken (and can that be fixed without pulling and opening up the tranny)? Possibly related, I found the tranny was low on fluid when I checked it. I put in some extra that I had around, but I think it still needs more (I really need to find some level ground to check this). I was planning on flushing the tranny fluid after driving a bit, and was thinking that some synthetic or perhaps B&G additive might help. Any thoughts on any of these ideas, or other things I should try before I start scouring the junk yards for a used tranny? TIA

abecedarian

Considering you've replaced the bushings, I would probably lean towards bent shift fork in the transmission.

nosfanatic2006

iTrader: (1)

My '88 was doing the exact same thing. I took it to a tranny shop and they replaced the bushings and something else, I can't remember what though. I'll see if I can find the reciept and see what all exactly they did

Steve777

Opps, somehow got posted too soon, see following post...

Steve777

A bit more info as I spent some time today starting in 1st. First, while the shifter mechanism is alot more definite since the seal change, it doesn't feel like it goes all the way into 1st, just not that definitive click like the other gears. Second thing is that I can usually make it slip out of 1st if after starting up I let up on the gas for a second and then step on the gas again. If I do that sequence, most of the time it will slip out of 1st as you apply power the second time. (If you just keep the power on in 1st though, it usually stays in gear just fine). Any new thoughts from this info?

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Could be you have a bearing starting to go allowing the gears to not be as tight as they should .

Does it grind at all??

Look for a spare trans or get this one fixed.

Good luck

Steve777

OK, OK, I'll accept my fate, and start looking for a replacement tranny So that brings up the next question, what trannies are compatible with the one that's in there now (87 Runner, 22RE)? From what I can tell reading the forum, there is a W56B in there now. I assume I need another W56B, but I was wondering are all the W56B's the same, or were the ones in PU's different that those in Runners (different ratios, or something else). Also are the W56A's and W56C's a compatible swap? Is this something I need to check, and what's the easiest way to tell? The good news is there are quite a few trannies in my area at junk yards and a few private ones too. One odd thing is a couple of yards want a core returned if you buy their tranny. They don't rebuild them, so I found that really odd. I'm wondering if I might be getting someone else's core return at these places? Is this a common practice elsewhere? TIA

ayoung101

wait, there's a shifter bushing fix for this? how did i not know about this? mine has slipped out of 1st gear pretty much 100% of the time (DEFINITELY 100% if you let off the throttle a bit and then re-throttle it, like you said) for YEARS and about 10% of the time for my 3rd gear. did you take pictures? are there any good write-ups you can link to? i seriously have no idea how i didn't know about this.

eugenedbrooksiii

My 91 truck developed a problem with the transmission jumping out of first gear. I could tell by working the shifter that the ball detent just wasn't working as it was for the other gears. In spite of religious transmission oil changes every 30K miles, and a magnetic drain plug, it had gotten stuck. I simply held it in gear, very lightly, with the shifter. After a few months of being stuck it started working properly again. I changed the oil after it started working again and I have not had a problem with it since. Your problem might fix itself...

Eugene

Steve777

Ayoung101, I found out about it on this forum. I thinkif you search you will find a bunch of posts on it, and links to some photos of the process. Not really much to it. Marlin Crawler's site has a short video of how to put their part back in. Good Luck.

Eugenedbrooksiii, interesting idea. I had considered just changing the tranny fluid, maybe putting in an additive and seeing what that did. Might be worth a try, as it would save a bunch of work, and if nothing else move the pulling of the transmission past winter weather But the consensus seem to be if the seat didn't fix it, then it was probably a internal mechanical thing...

flyingbrass

Yep, top vs. forward shift is the main issue. Apart from that you can put most any compatible combo of transmission and transfer in there. Be careful though of mixing transfer cases and transmissions, even among the same shifter type. As an example, the transfer on my G52 (forward shift) won't work with a W56 forward shift transmission. The rods are slightly different lengths.

Best bet is to find a tranny/transfer pair so you know they are compatible.

Not long ago I saw an ad on Craigslist. The guy said it was a W56 with matching transfer case. $200. The pics he posted weren't very clear. Finally got him to answer some simple questions and discovered it was actually a G58. W56's have 7 bolts on the input cover. G-series have 8.

From what I've ascertained:

R151F transmissions are the cream of the crop. Tough suckers. Not worth what they sell for unless you really need that strength.

W56 are stronger than the G-series. I'm looking for a forward shifting one myself with transfer to replace my G52. They came in various versions (A through E) both forward and top shift. Are there any significant differences apart from shift style among them?

G52 and G54 are all forward shift. G54 has slightly better bearings. G58 is probably about the same as the G54, but it came with a chain driven transfer case. I don't know how compatible the G58 case is with earilier G-series transmissions.

Marlin used to have good info available on the differences among transmissions -- which were better than others and why. Can't find that page now.

Here's a chart showing which transmissions were made when: http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/faq/parts/