When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
One other note: There are numerous mentions of BJ Spacers in this thread. Everyone has an opinion. Here are my findings on the subject. Check out this link:
Long Travel IFS built around factory pivots is not designed to compete with a "Rock Bouncer" style rig. KOH and other Ultra 4 rides using IFS are so far removed from a bolt on IFS LT systems its not a fair comparison. You wouldn't expect a bone stock 1985 live axle truck to survive, so why would you expect a 1986 IFS truck with longer control arms?
I tip my hat to Andrew (Red Wagon) for pushing the limits, but that is not the typical experience people running IFS LT are having according to my feedback.
Perhaps in Andrews case the 35" M/T tire on a 10" wide rim combined with 3-1/2" longer control arms with a 3" body lift isn't the right application for what he is wanting to do with his ride! Forcing the rig through John Bull or Moab like its a rock bouncer is going to cause problems with alignment and tire wear. Combine that with thousands of street miles between trails and you have an impressive journey. However, I would expect some alignment and wear issues.
Typically my customers are reporting positive feedback. I have had one or two customers, out of 100+ installations, with alignment complications. This was easily corrected with a replacement UCA Extension Brackets configured to reduce positive camber.
Andrew has some good points and I respect and appreciate his feedback. Take his advice, do some research to find out how you go about building your Yota.
No and apologies to Nate. I beat the absolute piss out of my rig. I will drop it off big ass rocks and I am going to miss IFS for the skid plate. I love using it to get over larger rocks. I also think it helps in the mud.
I took Nates kit, saw that it was awesome and then pushed to so far beyond what a bolt in kit should have been able to do it was nuts. I just needed it to drive 1000 miles after.
This is how you destroy an alignment with LT IFS.
The video is decpetive. It was steep.
With all the weight in my set up and the front unloaded the tire mass flexes everything.
Oh and for the love of got do not buy Smitty Bilt crap winches if you really wheel. It had the potential to get me killed twice.
I backed down this hill. It was the most terrifying thing I have done wheeling. It was steep enough to make me dump my clutch or I was going ass over first on the decent. The video is going back up.
Just bought a 95 4Runner 3.slow 2 wheel drive with 240,000 mi and all origional equipment... Fun project get around town ride -runs to Home Depot, make a full day of it- and occasional camping woods ride.
Anyway- just finished my first suspension upgrade- got the Old Man EMU 2" lift. It was really painless- first time doing any kind of suspension work and It took about 6 hours over the weekend. I could prob do it in half that time now that I have done it once and not youtubing evry last thing.
I will post pics as soon as new tires are on.
Thanks tho- threads like this one help us begginers a ton.
For anyone reading on and installing same lift... It's really easier than you'd think- just jack up your ride- unbolt old gear, & bolt in new gear- I found doing one wheel at a time to be easiest fail safe of ot effing it up.
I also didn't need to mess with any breaking components as I had read elsewhere - breadlines were never in the way of or prevented me from uninstalling or installing any parts. I rented a set of coil compressors and they helped a lot to get the new coils in, duh... All I needed to do with rear was loosen the sway bar.
Ok so i installed the 4-5in rough country lift and put 33x12.5x15s on and Im looking into going a little higher. thinking about bj spacers and spring spacers. Im curious can I put spring spacers on the top and bottom of the spring so 2 spacers per side or can I only do it on the top. I also know bj spacers are a bad idea but with the differential drop kit install the pitch of the control arms and cv joints are basically horizontal. going with bj spacers would basically put it back to the stock angle.
Ok so i installed the 4-5in rough country lift and put 33x12.5x15s on and Im looking into going a little higher. thinking about bj spacers and spring spacers. Im curious can I put spring spacers on the top and bottom of the spring so 2 spacers per side or can I only do it on the top. I also know bj spacers are a bad idea but with the differential drop kit install the pitch of the control arms and cv joints are basically horizontal. going with bj spacers would basically put it back to the stock angle.
With 4"-5" of lift already, you might be able to squeeze one spacer in, but you'll quickly run into issues with the rear pinion angle being off due to the short rear control arms. 6" lift is about all the stock rear suspension can take and still have somewhat decent road manners.
With 4"-5" of lift already, you might be able to squeeze one spacer in, but you'll quickly run into issues with the rear pinion angle being off due to the short rear control arms. 6" lift is about all the stock rear suspension can take and still have somewhat decent road manners.
How can I get the rear end up more with out having to spend crazy amounts of money. Having springs in the rear really sucks.
Or make some custom longer suspension control arms and mounts. Allpro Offroad used to make something like that but I don't think they have them any more.
You should not need that much lift to clear 33s ohysically. A body lift is another option if you have maxed out the suspension lift side of things if you want to get more height.
Or make some custom longer suspension control arms and mounts. Allpro Offroad used to make something like that but I don't think they have them any more.
You should not need that much lift to clear 33s ohysically. A body lift is another option if you have maxed out the suspension lift side of things if you want to get more height.
I'm not looking for more clearance for the tires I want to go to a height I like. And actually fully flexed the rear tires do rub a little but nothing im worried about I just want like 2" more in the rear and wanted to go with bjs for that stock angle for the cvs.
Great information in this thread guys, helped me narrow down my lift purchase. What I haven't been able to find is any good threads/info on people running wheels wheels wider than 10" Can anyone help point me in the right direction?
My rig, may help some to choose tire size. Stock suspension with 31x12.50 tires.
I'm not looking for more clearance for the tires I want to go to a height I like. And actually fully flexed the rear tires do rub a little but nothing im worried about I just want like 2" more in the rear and wanted to go with bjs for that stock angle for the cvs.
Height for the sake of height is not your friend on our trails. I'm just North of you so have a good idea of trails you will hit. You do NOT want to be tippy on old mountain logging roads. It can get you and your passengers in a lot of trouble.
I'd also like to point out that any more lift than you have with 33" tires looks bad. I had that much before I got my 35's and it really looked silly. The 33s look small.
Uneven flex front and back also makes you more tippy. Your rear already flexes out more than the front stock. After your current lift the disparity is even more. A roll over in the Pacific North West can cost you everything.
My 2c.
Your ride though do whatever you want. Learning the hard way like I have is really the best way. It's also the most expensive.
What do you want to know about running wide tires?
I ended up finding some really good information through search and google, thanks for the reply.
What I'm still unsure of - is what offset most 15x14 guys are running. Obviously there will be some pinch-weld hammering and front valance trimming needed - but a ballpark would be helpful to start doing some research into my next wheels.
Man it's been so long since I worried about it I forgot....... Depends on the tire.
Some guys get away with stock rims on 33 x 10 wide.
I have some offset I think I needed an 1" 1/4 outward. Mine are 35 and 12.5". I still got rubbing until I went with the Blazeland kit. If you are a moderate wheeler thats a fun kit and eliminates rubbing. It's really nimble.
Depending on the type of wheeler you are I would still recommend it over most of the stuff in here short of a solid axle swap.
There is a reason why all of the Dakar racers run IFS, and lite trucks have evolved from solid to inde fronts. Strait axle guys will argue their arsses off because solid is cheap and gets 12 inches but i want a smooth ride with minimum body roll when i wheel. IFS wont do as big of stuff but it does its max better than solid. Correct me if im wrong but dont all of theout of the box IFS lifts seem pedestrian and over priced? I am looking at long travel a arms. Check out Blazeland long travel and Total Chaos.
The reason is they are light and don't need to run on highways after you just bound your wheels in rocks. It's a race. They go fast and have different needs. I can attest that my Blazeland kits is fun as hell at speed over bumpy trails. Full on laugh riot.
For my specific wheeling needs I am chopping it out. I wheel fully loaded over hard terrain. After doing this I then need to take it still fully loaded 1000 miles on the highway and not be scary as hell and flat out dangerous.
If you do this,
Photo here, tires toeing in right at the start of the climb.
IFS might not be for you. My IFS mod actually contributed to this flop for two reasons.
1. I had not widened my rear end to equal the front. That climb was steep. The more narrow rear slipped off.
2. With the front end unloaded (in weight) the suspension droops and tires toe in. For proof you may scroll up to my video just a few posts up as well as looking really close again at photo 1. The video actually bent steering components. Anyway, my point is that while unloaded and the tires toed in it becomes difficult to steer.
I'm sure I could throw a great deal of money to try and correct it or I could throw my FJ62 axle under the front and a custom full float in the rear and call it a day.
If I wasn't a hard wheeler and use my rig to take 5000 mile + road trips I would keep the LT IFS as a trailer toy. It really is fun and and capable.
For perspective had I flopped the other way I would have gone to the bottom and I was up near the top when my winch failed.
This also leads me to the tip buy a GREAT winch. My Smitty Bilt XRC garbage could have gotten me killed TWICE......
The IFS solid axle debate is full of misinformation and jerks. Both have pros and cons and every wheeler has their own needs. My path is leading me to a solid axle swap. Not just a solid axle swap but a C-notched axle swap to get lower. I have a barn find rust free frame in the backyard ready to go and a 3.4 in the shed along with the already mentioned axle.
It might not be right for everyone. Most people do not need a full float rear end but I'm going to start wheeling even heavier.
My near misses have given me enough warning that it's cage time and I'm going to start wheeling with a helmet.
The reason is they are light and don't need to run on highways after you just bound your wheels in rocks. It's a race. They go fast and have different needs. I can attest that my Blazeland kits is fun as hell at speed over bumpy trails. Full on laugh riot.
For my specific wheeling needs I am chopping it out. I wheel fully loaded over hard terrain. After doing this I then need to take it still fully loaded 1000 miles on the highway and not be scary as hell and flat out dangerous.
If you do this,
Photo here, tires toeing in right at the start of the climb.
IFS might not be for you. My IFS mod actually contributed to this flop for two reasons.
1. I had not widened my rear end to equal the front. That climb was steep. The more narrow rear slipped off.
2. With the front end unloaded (in weight) the suspension droops and tires toe in. For proof you may scroll up to my video just a few posts up as well as looking really close again at photo 1. The video actually bent steering components. Anyway, my point is that while unloaded and the tires toed in it becomes difficult to steer.
I'm sure I could throw a great deal of money to try and correct it or I could throw my FJ62 axle under the front and a custom full float in the rear and call it a day.
If I wasn't a hard wheeler and use my rig to take 5000 mile + road trips I would keep the LT IFS as a trailer toy. It really is fun and and capable.
For perspective had I flopped the other way I would have gone to the bottom and I was up near the top when my winch failed.
This also leads me to the tip buy a GREAT winch. My Smitty Bilt XRC garbage could have gotten me killed TWICE......
The IFS solid axle debate is full of misinformation and jerks. Both have pros and cons and every wheeler has their own needs. My path is leading me to a solid axle swap. Not just a solid axle swap but a C-notched axle swap to get lower. I have a barn find rust free frame in the backyard ready to go and a 3.4 in the shed along with the already mentioned axle.
It might not be right for everyone. Most people do not need a full float rear end but I'm going to start wheeling even heavier.
My near misses have given me enough warning that it's cage time and I'm going to start wheeling with a helmet.
Oh ˟˟˟˟˟! At least you didn't go for the same ride that jeep did. I don't think I'll be attempting hells gate for at least another $10,000.00.
This is the kind of good information that I joined this forum for. My specific needs at the time don't really pertain to hard rock crawling. I am more focused on building a capable overland trail rig so I will be staying with IFS.
I noticed that you have a CVT Red Wagon. Built in my home town of Bend OR. Are you also located in Bend?
02-10-2016, 09:25 AM
