22RTE/22RE hybrid running.

dcg9381 · 12-10-2006, 08:23 PM

It Lives:
No major issues.. Took a while to get oil flow.
One fuel leak.
One water leak.
No oil leaks.
It actually fired right up after being reconfigured with Megasquirt.
I'm watching oil and fuel pressure... Getting the wideband connected in soon, hopefully on the road this week.

Broad specs:
8.5:1 CP pistons
DOA head, full work, +1mm valves
Custom turbo manifold
t3/t4b turbo
60mm TB on latemodel 22re manifold
Custom cam
ACT clutch
2.5" exhaust

It makes an interesting sound with the t3/t04b on there - note not tuned:
http://lakebox.dnsalias.com/photos/1...build/eng1.MPG

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Elton · 12-11-2006, 03:08 AM

looks good

Buck01 · 12-11-2006, 04:27 AM

That looks great and sounds nice as well.

Would love to be able to do something like this.

vwfastg60 · 12-11-2006, 07:07 AM

Sounds good and looks like a clean set up.

Why didn't you run an intercooler? I found my rte to heat soak really easy. Even if you grab an air to air id think it would help.

What kinda boost do you plan on running?

dcg9381 · 12-11-2006, 08:37 AM

During break in, I won't run more than about 5psi. Expected peak boost on pump fuel will be around 15psi. Also, I'm in the KIS stage (keep it simple) - an intercooler will be added, but I'm in TX, can't lose AC - so it won't go behind the grill. Additional fabrication will be required to install an IC and not mess up ground clearance.

vwfastg60 · 12-11-2006, 08:55 AM

Sounds good with 15psi id say its a must to do an IC. Have you looked in to Water to air? You have the room just stuff one in the bay.

Air to air you could use a small bar and plate behind the bumper and be ok. 15psi you dont need a huge one. I had one about the size of a conquest ic and was spiking 22psi on highboost it would fall off to about 17-18 and hold there but running low boost at 8psi i noticed a small difference. It felt way mor consistant in the way it would pull. I will say this on the highway after a long cruise when i would punch it the truck would pull way harder.

dcg9381 · 12-11-2006, 09:50 AM

I'm just starting to investigate water to air. There really isn't much hood clearance on this thing, so it'd have to be put elsewhere.

I don't have a stock bumper - it's a custom piece that I built that still allows air flow to the radiator, but has 6 mount points and a reinforced cross member.. 9k of winch can really tug at the front end. The bumper may have to be redesigned/replaced - not sure yet.

I've seen ICs in the fenderwell area also, but I'd like an air-to-air to have good air flow.

all_terrain17 · 12-11-2006, 09:56 AM

Sounds LOVELY.

Trumpfan · 12-11-2006, 11:48 AM

Looks and sounds Great, I'm Jealous

Prob with water to air is where to place the exchanger, sorta end up with the same problem that air to air has -no room for proper airflow (I have AC too). I was told I could plumb it in to the trucks cooling system and use a four core from a chev conversion for the extra capcity, I don't think that would work as well, what do you think?

I sized a Spearco 2-231 core and tanks above the passenger fender shoud fit with some work.

dcg9381 · 12-11-2006, 12:10 PM

Honestly, I don't know.. It'd depend on how close to the limits of capacity the radiator is at now and how much air you're flowing over it. No idea at this point!

RallyToy · 12-12-2006, 08:01 AM

Congrats, man. I'll be watching closely how it all shakes out since I'm going to be using your MS solution soon. (You know me as wildernessfirst via email.)

I'll be interested to see if the factory fuel regulator poses a problem once you turn the boost up as well.

Sounds great! I can't wait to get mine put together.

Bill · 12-12-2006, 03:55 PM

Why'd you go with a 2.5" vs a 2.25" exhaust?

Sounds good though, gotta love that turbo spool!

fthertime666 · 12-12-2006, 04:27 PM

Sounds badass. Do you have any power goals in mind, or know how much your initial setup will make?

trythis · 12-12-2006, 06:50 PM

I dont know how big a intercooler needs to be and if it would work, but there was a lot of room between the radiator and the ac unit on my 22re for a tranny cooler. This is way below your ability, but I thought why not mention it. Maybe I will learn that the cooler can't go there. Scooped hood?

dcg9381 · 12-12-2006, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

Why'd you go with a 2.5" vs a 2.25" exhaust?

Sounds good though, gotta love that turbo spool!

The standard 22R-series exhaust rules don't apply to a turbo.. They turbo provides back pressure.. I could run a 4" exhaust if it would fit, larger = better if you've got a turbo.

Quote:

Sounds badass. Do you have any power goals in mind, or know how much your initial setup will make?

It's a very similar motor to what Jeff Mosk built, although I'm not intercooled at this time. His tops out at somewhere around 300 flywheel with a ball bearing turbo. We'll keep it to 200 until I've put a few thousand miles on it and then start playing with boost.

Quote:

I dont know how big a intercooler needs to be and if it would work, but there was a lot of room between the radiator and the ac unit on my 22re for a tranny cooler. This is way below your ability, but I thought why not mention it. Maybe I will learn that the cooler can't go there. Scooped hood?

An intercooler certainly would work.
I'm not sure where you're suggesting I put it - it needs to be in a direct airflow path. There's no room behind the grill, probably less than 1" - too shallow for an IC unless I pull the AC, which I'm not going to do.
Options are: fender well mount, hood scoop and run one under the hood, redesign the bumper, or find a water to air solution.

Full Boogie · 12-15-2006, 08:47 PM

Looks good Darin, just keep in mind when sizing an intercooler, first look at the efficient air flow (HP numbers) that fit your HP goals, then look at size and see where it can go. I would stay away from an air to water mainly because your truck is a street machine not a race-truck. If you go out on a long cruise the water will heat up and take much longer to cool down.

Did I send you pics of mine?

Later

Bumpin' Yota · 12-15-2006, 08:50 PM

I think ive asked before and if so, I apologize, but what are the specs on the turbo and what kinda HP are you shooting for?

fthertime666 · 12-15-2006, 09:11 PM

I think hes looking for about 220+HP, btw darin, is the block o-ringed?

dcg9381 · 12-16-2006, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fthertime666

I think hes looking for about 220+HP, btw darin, is the block o-ringed?

So, full disclosure: I ate a HG yesterday. I'm failing leak down on #4 and putting pressure into my cooling system.

In reterospect, I've got boost creep that I haven't gotten under control. I'm at 9psi at 4000 and even though my wastegate is fully loose, I'm still building boost. I also have timing setup issue that won't allow me to drop beyond 10 BTDC - so I need to fix that. I didn't know this while tuning.

AFRs have been fine. IT's really interesting to tune these things, but a bit difficult - everthing happens very quickly with boost. I've got full datalogging, so I can review later - but it's still challenging.

I was running a "stock" engnbldr HG, I knew it was a risk, but I've had issues with MLS HGs in the past, mainly because I didn't have a block (at that time) that was machined for them. I ordered a Cometic.
I choose not to o-ring my block after discussing with my machist and seeing all the issues that Jeff Mosk has had with his. Also, I'm at 93.5mm bore - there isn't much room left. My machinist felt that adding an o-ring with so little material left might be a liability.

I'm aiming for 200+ hp on pump gas.

I'm running a t3/t04b turbo, I believe it's a little too big for my application - I knew that up front based on compressor map, but the real world results are that it starts boosting at 2k rpm and does 9psi by 4000. I'd like to see more boost earlier. It's not even working hard, however - as my intake temps are in the low 100s... That's about the same as stock, believe it or not!

I'll be installing a .7bar TIAL WG (external) to keep boost static this time.

For reference, I hit detonation at 4000-4500 RPM, 8.5:1 CR, and 10 BTDC timing.. 12.3:1 AFR... So maybe this will be useful to someone else some day.

I'll have it back on the road once I get that HG....

Full Boogie · 12-16-2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcg9381

So, full disclosure: I ate a HG yesterday. I'm failing leak down on #4 and putting pressure into my cooling system.

In reterospect, I've got boost creep that I haven't gotten under control. I'm at 9psi at 4000 and even though my wastegate is fully loose, I'm still building boost. I also have timing setup issue that won't allow me to drop beyond 10 BTDC - so I need to fix that. I didn't know this while tuning.

I'll be installing a .7bar TIAL WG (external) to keep boost static this time.

I know you will probably curse me Darin, but I told you so. The 22RE seems to put out a tremendous amount of exhaust compared to even a 2.0L engine which I have used internal style W/G's with no boost creep. I am surprised you blew a HG though, 12.3 is acceptable for what I like to call a "power" tune, which can go up to 12.5, but like in your case wanting a "safe" tune keep it 11.2~11.8 or so. Remember me telling you I stayed in the throttle until the boost creep took it all the way up to 26 PSI, this was on 100 octane pump gas I can get here, now normally I run 91 because 100 is 5 bucks a gallon, but when initial tuning is done use as high octane as you can get in case of any problems like this, but don't get crazy with timing so pump gas can be used. I have two maps saved at this point, one for 100 octane and one for 91.

Where is your air charge temp sensor? what octane fuel are you running?

Later

dcg9381 · 12-16-2006, 12:44 PM

I'll adjust my AFRs for ~11.5 or so. If the gasket comes in, I should get it back together that day.

I can buy 100LL octane AV gas here about a mile away at just over the cost of premium, but the lead isn't good for my wideband. I may run it anyway just to get the things tuned and provide a margin of error. The SRT-4 guys also swear by an additive called "torco" which allows them to flip the 100 octane timing switch without issue.. May try that also.

My air charge sensor is in my manifold, I tapped the spot where the stock cold start injector was. It's a GM free element sensor.

I was running 93 octane.

I trust your judgement on tuning, Rick - the fact that you've kept a stock 22RE together at 170 hp is amazing... Anyone wants a bolt-on bang for the buck mod, talk to fullboogie....

Full Boogie · 12-16-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcg9381

I'll adjust my AFRs for ~11.5 or so. If the gasket comes in, I should get it back together that day.

I can buy 100LL octane AV gas here about a mile away at just over the cost of premium, but the lead isn't good for my wideband. I may run it anyway just to get the things tuned and provide a margin of error. The SRT-4 guys also swear by an additive called "torco" which allows them to flip the 100 octane timing switch without issue.. May try that also.

My air charge sensor is in my manifold, I tapped the spot where the stock cold start injector was. It's a GM free element sensor.

I was running 93 octane.

I trust your judgement on tuning, Rick - the fact that you've kept a stock 22RE together at 170 hp is amazing... Anyone wants a bolt-on bang for the buck mod, talk to fullboogie....

Darin, which wideband are you using? I have tuned cars on leaded "race" gas using an LM-1 and the FAST widebands......Them along with a few others claim to be safe with leaded fuel, diesel fuel and alcohol/methonol. This is why I use the LM-1, I rent this unit out to customers that want to tune most of their engine themselves, and a replacement O2 from Precision retails at 80 bucks!

Later

dcg9381 · 12-16-2006, 08:08 PM

I'm using the LC-1.
It can be used with leaded, it just "wears" it about 10x faster than unleaded..

Full Boogie · 12-16-2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcg9381

I'm using the LC-1.
It can be used with leaded, it just "wears" it about 10x faster than unleaded..

I have heard the same thing about many O2's, but have lasted going on 10 years. Your LC-1 basically uses the same sensor as what I use, go get yourself some AV gas so you don't hurt your engine again, and tune away. If and when it goes bad I will sell you a sensor....cheap, besides, I'm not saying run leaded fuel all the time, just when doing an initial tune on a new set-up. I know how weird it feels to have a bunch of money in something then going out and tuning it, getting to 100% throttle and watching the boost come up and pray nothing happens......some guys are almost annoyed how conservative I am on first runs and making them put $5 per gallon fuel in their tank before I'll tune it. It hasn't happened yet, but when a guy dumps 20 grand in his racecar for his engine/turbo/computer set-up and wants you to tune it, you don't really want to blow it up!

Later

dcg9381 · 12-17-2006, 11:05 AM

Def blew the HG.. #4 and looks like #3 was leaking too..
Photo is big so I'll link to it instead of posting it:
http://lakebox.dnsalias.com/photos/1...ebuild/hg1.jpg

12-11-2006, 03:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
Elton Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Siletz,Oregon Posts: 10,464	looks good __________________ My Truck 98 4runner SR5 3.4L 5spd 4x4 E-Locker Mods Mom 07 Tundra d-cab limited 5.7L 4x4 auto sister 92 pickup SR5 X-cab 3.0L 5spd 4x4 Papa 89 Pickup SR5 X-cab 4x4 3.0L 5spd/98 4runner SR5 4x4 auto 3.4L R.I.P 91 4runner SR5 4x4 3.0L 5spd Totaled 5/13/06 My Wreck

12-11-2006, 04:27 AM	#3 (permalink)
Buck01 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 596	That looks great and sounds nice as well. Would love to be able to do something like this. __________________ 94 Toyota Truck 4x4 22RE, 5 Speed 175,000 MOD's include High performance Head with bigger valves and cam, LC engineering Header and complete exhaust kit. I have upgraded headlights with the wiring harrness and Hella H4 allweather bulbs. lift shackels in the rear 3 inch BL

12-11-2006, 07:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
vwfastg60 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Longmont Colorado Posts: 711	Sounds good and looks like a clean set up. Why didn't you run an intercooler? I found my rte to heat soak really easy. Even if you grab an air to air id think it would help. What kinda boost do you plan on running? __________________ 87 longbed, 3rz, tacoma dash, bobbed, SAS'ed, gears and more. My build----HERE More web wheeling- Just getting started so come join us Asphaltsux

12-11-2006, 08:37 AM	#5 (permalink)
dcg9381 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,825	During break in, I won't run more than about 5psi. Expected peak boost on pump fuel will be around 15psi. Also, I'm in the KIS stage (keep it simple) - an intercooler will be added, but I'm in TX, can't lose AC - so it won't go behind the grill. Additional fabrication will be required to install an IC and not mess up ground clearance. __________________ http://www.22REturbo.net

12-11-2006, 08:55 AM	#6 (permalink)
vwfastg60 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Longmont Colorado Posts: 711	Sounds good with 15psi id say its a must to do an IC. Have you looked in to Water to air? You have the room just stuff one in the bay. Air to air you could use a small bar and plate behind the bumper and be ok. 15psi you dont need a huge one. I had one about the size of a conquest ic and was spiking 22psi on highboost it would fall off to about 17-18 and hold there but running low boost at 8psi i noticed a small difference. It felt way mor consistant in the way it would pull. I will say this on the highway after a long cruise when i would punch it the truck would pull way harder. __________________ 87 longbed, 3rz, tacoma dash, bobbed, SAS'ed, gears and more. My build----HERE More web wheeling- Just getting started so come join us Asphaltsux

12-11-2006, 09:50 AM	#7 (permalink)
dcg9381 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,825	I'm just starting to investigate water to air. There really isn't much hood clearance on this thing, so it'd have to be put elsewhere. I don't have a stock bumper - it's a custom piece that I built that still allows air flow to the radiator, but has 6 mount points and a reinforced cross member.. 9k of winch can really tug at the front end. The bumper may have to be redesigned/replaced - not sure yet. I've seen ICs in the fenderwell area also, but I'd like an air-to-air to have good air flow. __________________ http://www.22REturbo.net

12-11-2006, 09:56 AM	#8 (permalink)
all_terrain17 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 748	Sounds LOVELY. __________________ 94' Pickup

12-11-2006, 11:48 AM	#9 (permalink)
Trumpfan Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 344	Looks and sounds Great, I'm Jealous Prob with water to air is where to place the exchanger, sorta end up with the same problem that air to air has -no room for proper airflow (I have AC too). I was told I could plumb it in to the trucks cooling system and use a four core from a chev conversion for the extra capcity, I don't think that would work as well, what do you think? I sized a Spearco 2-231 core and tanks above the passenger fender shoud fit with some work.

12-11-2006, 12:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
dcg9381 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,825	Honestly, I don't know.. It'd depend on how close to the limits of capacity the radiator is at now and how much air you're flowing over it. No idea at this point! __________________ http://www.22REturbo.net

12-12-2006, 08:01 AM	#11 (permalink)
RallyToy Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Marina, CA Posts: 28	Congrats, man. I'll be watching closely how it all shakes out since I'm going to be using your MS solution soon. (You know me as wildernessfirst via email.) I'll be interested to see if the factory fuel regulator poses a problem once you turn the boost up as well. Sounds great! I can't wait to get mine put together.

12-12-2006, 03:55 PM	#12 (permalink)
Bill Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Calgary, AB, Can Posts: 690	Why'd you go with a 2.5" vs a 2.25" exhaust? Sounds good though, gotta love that turbo spool! __________________ 86 Turbo Pickup EB Street RV head EB 268 Cam V6 Brakes + MC A340F auto ---> W56 5-spd swap ...I want a bigger turbo...

12-12-2006, 04:27 PM	#13 (permalink)
fthertime666 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: the fire center, lawton ok Posts: 214	Sounds badass. Do you have any power goals in mind, or know how much your initial setup will make? __________________ US ARMY 63B, 94 toy PU, bj spacers, Downey adjustable front shock mounts, lo-pro bumps, 2in lift in the rear, 2inch BL with poly mounts, POS 22re, 4.88s with rear ARB, 33x10.5 BFG MTs, Bigrocks front and rear bumpers, Siege Engineering OBA

12-12-2006, 06:50 PM	#14 (permalink)
trythis Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kansas City Posts: 644	I dont know how big a intercooler needs to be and if it would work, but there was a lot of room between the radiator and the ac unit on my 22re for a tranny cooler. This is way below your ability, but I thought why not mention it. Maybe I will learn that the cooler can't go there. Scooped hood? __________________ 89 DLX xtra cab 4x4 22re Auto with 210,000, 225 75R 15, Stock except, "new" 2000 toyota cd/radio, rear speakers hidden in the back seat, SR5 instrument cluster, factory clock. dead aftermarket cruise and some matching blue door pockets! New timing chain with Engine builders front end rebuild kit. Tokico RT trekmaster shocks <-like them. I found the turtle in my yard, after mowing over it and it was fine! Old toyota trucks are like turtles: slow, steady and durable.

12-15-2006, 08:47 PM	#16 (permalink)
Full Boogie Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 48	Looks good Darin, just keep in mind when sizing an intercooler, first look at the efficient air flow (HP numbers) that fit your HP goals, then look at size and see where it can go. I would stay away from an air to water mainly because your truck is a street machine not a race-truck. If you go out on a long cruise the water will heat up and take much longer to cool down. Did I send you pics of mine? Later __________________ 1994 Reg. cab 4x4 5-speed, locked Front & Rear, very built 22RE, MS II 3.0, 880 cc inj., custom T4 Stainless header, Precision SC60R "P" trim, ball bearing, custom 3" stainless exhaust, victims at 10 psi, '85 Corvette, couple of newer Dodge diesels with mods, Dakota R/T and some others that laughed at my 4 cyl......

12-15-2006, 08:50 PM	#17 (permalink)
Bumpin' Yota Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 3,639	I think ive asked before and if so, I apologize, but what are the specs on the turbo and what kinda HP are you shooting for? __________________ 3vze, 4x4, sr5, 90, auto, LSD 2x dB Drag World Finalist 2003 Nopi Nat. Street B champ 2004 SBN Street C champ 2004 SBN Advncd NW Champ 2004 Former WR Holder in NW. SPL: 159.8db @ 42hz In loving memory of Jamie Riggs 5/15/85 - 10/8/04

12-15-2006, 09:11 PM	#18 (permalink)
fthertime666 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: the fire center, lawton ok Posts: 214	I think hes looking for about 220+HP, btw darin, is the block o-ringed? __________________ US ARMY 63B, 94 toy PU, bj spacers, Downey adjustable front shock mounts, lo-pro bumps, 2in lift in the rear, 2inch BL with poly mounts, POS 22re, 4.88s with rear ARB, 33x10.5 BFG MTs, Bigrocks front and rear bumpers, Siege Engineering OBA

12-16-2006, 12:44 PM	#21 (permalink)
dcg9381 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,825	I'll adjust my AFRs for ~11.5 or so. If the gasket comes in, I should get it back together that day. I can buy 100LL octane AV gas here about a mile away at just over the cost of premium, but the lead isn't good for my wideband. I may run it anyway just to get the things tuned and provide a margin of error. The SRT-4 guys also swear by an additive called "torco" which allows them to flip the 100 octane timing switch without issue.. May try that also. My air charge sensor is in my manifold, I tapped the spot where the stock cold start injector was. It's a GM free element sensor. I was running 93 octane. I trust your judgement on tuning, Rick - the fact that you've kept a stock 22RE together at 170 hp is amazing... Anyone wants a bolt-on bang for the buck mod, talk to fullboogie.... __________________ http://www.22REturbo.net

12-16-2006, 08:08 PM	#23 (permalink)
dcg9381 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,825	I'm using the LC-1. It can be used with leaded, it just "wears" it about 10x faster than unleaded.. __________________ http://www.22REturbo.net

12-17-2006, 11:05 AM	#25 (permalink)
dcg9381 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,825	Def blew the HG.. #4 and looks like #3 was leaking too.. Photo is big so I'll link to it instead of posting it: http://lakebox.dnsalias.com/photos/1...ebuild/hg1.jpg __________________ http://www.22REturbo.net

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