2-3" Spring Lift without HiSteer?

Sporin · 07-05-2006, 09:41 AM

I am getting really confusde about this. I picked up a set of used lfit springs for my 85 4runner to replace the flattented stock stuff. $50 well spent, or so I thought.

I figured I'd just pick up new shocks and ubolts and bolt them on, but I am getting so much confliciting information about this. Many people seem to think you simply CANNOT lift an 85 without going to HiSteer. Yet many other people seem to have done just that, and some comapnies (Downey, etc) offer full spring lifts (2-3") with no mention of steering changes.

HiSteer on my 85 would also require an IFS PSteering box, plus mounts, welding, etc and by my best estimation will go over $500 easily, money I just don't have.

I run 31" Xterrains and don't plan to go to a bigger tire until I can regear, I just wanted to replace the inverted, harsh riding old springs and get the bodyup in the air a bit higher? I have a Budbuilt gift certificate and figured I'd upgrade to a stronger TR with bigger ends while I'm at it.

Can anyone shed some light on this quandry? I would GREATLY appreciate it.

Sporin · 07-05-2006, 10:11 AM

Got a great link from Roger Brown but would appreciate any more first-hand info anyone might have.

'85 w/ 3.5" lift and semi-stock steering:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/4R_suspension.shtml

Looks like I should plan on buying an adjustable drag link and upgraded torque rod bracket as well as the shocks, ubolts & bushings I had already planned on.

http://www.northwestoffroad.com/part...omponents.html

Hayes · 07-05-2006, 01:48 PM

ummm...wabfab: my 1985 4runner is spring over...

Sporin: I have always heard up to 3'' of lift with no other modification.

Sporin · 07-05-2006, 01:53 PM

My 85 is SOA front and back, stock setup.

***waskillywabbit*** · 07-05-2006, 02:46 PM

So kill me...I made a mistake.

From now on Ill just tell folks to search!

You should always search RBs site first for anything 1st gen as it is probably there.

kyle_22r · 07-05-2006, 05:21 PM

the people who say you cannot lift a straight axle truck without hysteer are wrong in the sense that it's definitely possible, and probably 90% of trucks that are lifted don't have hysteer.

however, the stock steering setup is barely adequate for stock springs, and really sucks in a lifted application, especially if you take it off-road. i have 3" of lift(downey springs) on my '79, and i'm using marlin's billet hysteer kit. i initially installed the crossover setup with a stock pitman arm and the marlin adapter, but it's got too much drop(it'd hit the driver side spring on compression) and i didn't want to cut the body mount or core support to move the box forward and tilt it. my solution was to buy sky's 3/4" less than stock drop billet pitman and an FJ80 tie rod end. works like a charm, no more spring clearance issues.

after spring and drag link/tie rod clearance, the most important reason that you need more lift for hysteer is that if you have flexy enough springs, your drag link may hit the oil pan if you really compress the passenger side.

Intrepid · 07-05-2006, 06:28 PM

I am running 3 inches in front on stock length springs with stock steering and no torque rod and I have yet to break anything. I do have a spare j-arm just in case, but thus far, no problems, and I have beat it pretty good.

Hayes · 07-05-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waskillywabbit

So kill me...I made a mistake.

Nah, we won't kill you for this one mistake, but do it again...

Quote:

Originally Posted by waskillywabbit

You should always search RBs site first for anything 1st gen as it is probably there.

What is the url for that site?

Intrepid · 07-05-2006, 06:33 PM

www.4crawler.com

***waskillywabbit*** · 07-05-2006, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid

www.4crawler.com

Is Roger Brown or RBs site.

Hayes · 07-05-2006, 07:13 PM

oh okay, know that site and love it...lots of good info.

Sporin · 07-06-2006, 05:37 AM

RB's site is a great resource, answered a lot of my questions.

I think I'm going to get the new springs on with stock steering and go from there, add the pieces as necessary. I haven't even seen the used lift springs yet, for all I know they aren't much over stock height now.

I'll keep you guys posted. THANKS!!!

ToyRunner1 · 07-06-2006, 06:38 AM

I've been running with stock steering for 8 or 9 years now. I run 35s with no problems at all. I do still have the torque rod attached however. I run slightly modified Downey springs with a body lift and shackles in the rear. My springs were modded to help support the heavier drive train.

neo · 07-10-2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sporin

I am getting really confusde about this. I picked up a set of used lfit springs for my 85 4runner to replace the flattented stock stuff. $50 well spent, or so I thought.

I figured I'd just pick up new shocks and ubolts and bolt them on, but I am getting so much confliciting information about this. Many people seem to think you simply CANNOT lift an 85 without going to HiSteer. Yet many other people seem to have done just that, and some comapnies (Downey, etc) offer full spring lifts (2-3") with no mention of steering changes.

HiSteer on my 85 would also require an IFS PSteering box, plus mounts, welding, etc and by my best estimation will go over $500 easily, money I just don't have.

I run 31" Xterrains and don't plan to go to a bigger tire until I can regear, I just wanted to replace the inverted, harsh riding old springs and get the bodyup in the air a bit higher? I have a Budbuilt gift certificate and figured I'd upgrade to a stronger TR with bigger ends while I'm at it.

Can anyone shed some light on this quandry? I would GREATLY appreciate it.

i had a 3.5 in susp lift on my 1979 and had no steering problems,when i went to 6.5 inches of lift i added a adjustable drag link,no steering problems,neo

Sporin · 07-10-2006, 10:03 AM

thanks, definitley starting the teardown this weekend.

Intrepid · 07-10-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sporin

thanks, definitley starting the teardown this weekend.

Just don't tell your wife. If she is concerned about you running used tires, she will be really concerned about a sketchy drop arm.

Sporin · 07-10-2006, 11:15 AM

haha! so true so true. I should pick a spare ofne of thsoe up, right? What's it's proper name for my shopping list?

Anyway, never did buy those tires though, moved on to a different plan. Picked up another set of wheels and going to put some (stock sized) 225/75-15 LT's on there for a good road/winter tire. They wil look funny once she's lifted, but with stock gearing they will be a lot better on road, quieter too.

Now I'm looking to trade the 31" Xterrains for some 33" swampers sincely they'll be trail tires only now.

Been out wheeling much? I finally got out this weekend, exploring some class VI roads in NH. Got into a few sticky spots, some buttpuckering off camber ruts, lots of fun.

Intrepid · 07-10-2006, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sporin

haha! so true so true. I should pick a spare ofne of thsoe up, right? What's it's proper name for my shopping list?

Anyway, never did buy those tires though, moved on to a different plan. Picked up another set of wheels and going to put some (stock sized) 225/75-15 LT's on there for a good road/winter tire. They wil look funny once she's lifted, but with stock gearing they will be a lot better on road, quieter too.

Now I'm looking to trade the 31" Xterrains for some 33" swampers sincely they'll be trail tires only now.

Been out wheeling much? I finally got out this weekend, exploring some class VI roads in NH. Got into a few sticky spots, some buttpuckering off camber ruts, lots of fun.

I would assume you mean the j-arm, but a spare pitman arm (I assume it is still called that with push pull steering) couldn't hurt either.

Yeah, it will look really funny with the 225's, but whatever works! I don't personally think I would go that small, with it lifted it just seems like it would be odd and unstable. Otherwise, I like the plan for 33" swampers!

We ran Ma Bell a while back, then we hit Old Florida Rd a week ago. There have been two lakeview (CT) runs in there two, but I missed both, haha.

07-05-2006, 09:41 AM	#1 (permalink)
Sporin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Windsor, VT U.S.A. Posts: 240	2-3" Spring Lift without HiSteer? I am getting really confusde about this. I picked up a set of used lfit springs for my 85 4runner to replace the flattented stock stuff. $50 well spent, or so I thought. I figured I'd just pick up new shocks and ubolts and bolt them on, but I am getting so much confliciting information about this. Many people seem to think you simply CANNOT lift an 85 without going to HiSteer. Yet many other people seem to have done just that, and some comapnies (Downey, etc) offer full spring lifts (2-3") with no mention of steering changes. HiSteer on my 85 would also require an IFS PSteering box, plus mounts, welding, etc and by my best estimation will go over $500 easily, money I just don't have. I run 31" Xterrains and don't plan to go to a bigger tire until I can regear, I just wanted to replace the inverted, harsh riding old springs and get the bodyup in the air a bit higher? I have a Budbuilt gift certificate and figured I'd upgrade to a stronger TR with bigger ends while I'm at it. Can anyone shed some light on this quandry? I would GREATLY appreciate it. __________________ Dave Morin Windsor, Vermont TLCA Member #13940 Yankee Toys

07-05-2006, 10:11 AM	#2 (permalink)
Sporin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Windsor, VT U.S.A. Posts: 240	Got a great link from Roger Brown but would appreciate any more first-hand info anyone might have. '85 w/ 3.5" lift and semi-stock steering: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/4R_suspension.shtml Looks like I should plan on buying an adjustable drag link and upgraded torque rod bracket as well as the shocks, ubolts & bushings I had already planned on. http://www.northwestoffroad.com/part...omponents.html __________________ Dave Morin Windsor, Vermont TLCA Member #13940 Yankee Toys

07-05-2006, 01:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
Sporin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Windsor, VT U.S.A. Posts: 240	My 85 is SOA front and back, stock setup. __________________ Dave Morin Windsor, Vermont TLCA Member #13940 Yankee Toys

07-05-2006, 02:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
*waskillywabbit* Sponsoring Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 11,508	So kill me...I made a mistake. From now on Ill just tell folks to search! You should always search RBs site first for anything 1st gen as it is probably there. __________________ WabFab Off-Road, LLC www.myspace.com/wabfab 6th Annual South East 4Runner Jamboree, May 22-25, 2009 WabFab Off-Road Salvation Army Online Kettle

07-05-2006, 05:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
kyle_22r Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lacey, WA Posts: 3,991	the people who say you cannot lift a straight axle truck without hysteer are wrong in the sense that it's definitely possible, and probably 90% of trucks that are lifted don't have hysteer. however, the stock steering setup is barely adequate for stock springs, and really sucks in a lifted application, especially if you take it off-road. i have 3" of lift(downey springs) on my '79, and i'm using marlin's billet hysteer kit. i initially installed the crossover setup with a stock pitman arm and the marlin adapter, but it's got too much drop(it'd hit the driver side spring on compression) and i didn't want to cut the body mount or core support to move the box forward and tilt it. my solution was to buy sky's 3/4" less than stock drop billet pitman and an FJ80 tie rod end. works like a charm, no more spring clearance issues. after spring and drag link/tie rod clearance, the most important reason that you need more lift for hysteer is that if you have flexy enough springs, your drag link may hit the oil pan if you really compress the passenger side. __________________ 1998 tacoma, 3RZ-FE, 5 speed, 30x9.5R15 M/Ts past toys: 1984 4x2 1979 4x4 1991 4x4

07-05-2006, 01:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
Hayes Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Aurora, CO Posts: 1,445	ummm...wabfab: my 1985 4runner is spring over... Sporin: I have always heard up to 3'' of lift with no other modification.

07-05-2006, 06:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
Intrepid Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ashburnham, MA Posts: 2,719	I am running 3 inches in front on stock length springs with stock steering and no torque rod and I have yet to break anything. I do have a spare j-arm just in case, but thus far, no problems, and I have beat it pretty good. __________________ www.toyotacrawlers.com '85 4runner: 4.7's, FoxFab sliders, custom bumpers, 1" body lift, F-150 springs rear, lockright, welded third, IFS rear axle, 1.5" wheel spacers, high-steer, rears up front, Longs, 38" SX's on steelies, 12Voltguy dual battery, soft top, BMW seats. NO LONGER lacking an engine. :D :D

07-05-2006, 06:33 PM	#9 (permalink)
Intrepid Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ashburnham, MA Posts: 2,719	www.4crawler.com __________________ www.toyotacrawlers.com '85 4runner: 4.7's, FoxFab sliders, custom bumpers, 1" body lift, F-150 springs rear, lockright, welded third, IFS rear axle, 1.5" wheel spacers, high-steer, rears up front, Longs, 38" SX's on steelies, 12Voltguy dual battery, soft top, BMW seats. NO LONGER lacking an engine. :D :D

07-05-2006, 07:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
Hayes Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Aurora, CO Posts: 1,445	oh okay, know that site and love it...lots of good info.

07-06-2006, 05:37 AM	#12 (permalink)
Sporin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Windsor, VT U.S.A. Posts: 240	RB's site is a great resource, answered a lot of my questions. I think I'm going to get the new springs on with stock steering and go from there, add the pieces as necessary. I haven't even seen the used lift springs yet, for all I know they aren't much over stock height now. I'll keep you guys posted. THANKS!!! __________________ Dave Morin Windsor, Vermont TLCA Member #13940 Yankee Toys

07-06-2006, 06:38 AM	#13 (permalink)
ToyRunner1 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 60	I've been running with stock steering for 8 or 9 years now. I run 35s with no problems at all. I do still have the torque rod attached however. I run slightly modified Downey springs with a body lift and shackles in the rear. My springs were modded to help support the heavier drive train. __________________ 85 4Runner SR5 Buick Grand National Bored .040 Custom 700R4 85 4Runner SR5

07-10-2006, 10:03 AM	#15 (permalink)
Sporin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Windsor, VT U.S.A. Posts: 240	thanks, definitley starting the teardown this weekend. __________________ Dave Morin Windsor, Vermont TLCA Member #13940 Yankee Toys

07-10-2006, 11:15 AM	#17 (permalink)
Sporin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Windsor, VT U.S.A. Posts: 240	haha! so true so true. I should pick a spare ofne of thsoe up, right? What's it's proper name for my shopping list? Anyway, never did buy those tires though, moved on to a different plan. Picked up another set of wheels and going to put some (stock sized) 225/75-15 LT's on there for a good road/winter tire. They wil look funny once she's lifted, but with stock gearing they will be a lot better on road, quieter too. Now I'm looking to trade the 31" Xterrains for some 33" swampers sincely they'll be trail tires only now. Been out wheeling much? I finally got out this weekend, exploring some class VI roads in NH. Got into a few sticky spots, some buttpuckering off camber ruts, lots of fun. __________________ Dave Morin Windsor, Vermont TLCA Member #13940 Yankee Toys

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