83

Wow. I've been reading All Terrain17's timing chain/head gasket work. I'm getting a bit discouraged. If I've never done it before, should I pretty much expect that I'll do something wrong and have to tear it apart again?

What's been your luck with this job, if you'd never done it before? This truck isn't yet my daily driver, so I can take my time, but still...

zlathim

You didn't say anything about your overall mechanical ability, so I'll just say this: If you are a decent wrench, but just have not done this job before, you will be fine if you take your time and pay attention to detail. It is no walk in the park, but it is very doable.

If you have doubts as to your abilities, this might not be a project that you want to try to take on.

Sked

Just follow the FSM step by step. Dont overlook anything just because you think you know how to do it. Most people have troubles getting the timing correct, they think they did something wrong in the assembly when it wont start up after.

Since this is your first time make sure you have more time than just a weekend to complete this task and taking your OWN pictures along the way can really be helpful.

__________________
81 shortbed 4-5" Lift, 4.37 welded front/rear, custom flatbed on 35x14 mudders

20r bored .060 w/ wiseco 9.9:1 forged pistons, Weber 38 outlaw
260 Comp Cam .440lift ,Crane Springs, 22r Valves, Pacesetter Header with a Flowmaster 40

83

Yeah, sorry about that. I've removed & replaced a transmission & clutch on a Toyota pickup.

I've done the timing belts, water pump, and oil pump on a 80's Subaru wagon. Somewhat similar to this job but you don't open up the engine to do it..I'm fine with removing & replacing whole parts, but the opening up of the engine, gaskets & heads with very specific torques etc. scares me a bit.

So...I guess I don't have much to lose. I can't sell the truck for a worthwhile amount while the chain is making so much noise, and I can't afford to have it done somewhere. I do have doubts, but it's sort of my only choice, short of taking a financial hit by selling it. Just curious as to how "hard" people think it is. I suppose it's relative.

Would you recommend pulling the engine? I don't know how much that takes. A couple good freinds, or a hoist? Either way?

Sked

Pulling the engine would make it easier to work on but it can be a PITA if you have never done it before. You can do it by yourself w/ a hoist and a jack to support the Tranny. Putting it back in is the harder part!

I would say just leave the motor in and do the work. These truck have lots of engine bay room WHEN you remove the RAD/hood/ and fan.

The job really isnt too hard, just be clean and organized and dont rush. You do need a decent torque and lots of rags to clean parts

__________________
81 shortbed 4-5" Lift, 4.37 welded front/rear, custom flatbed on 35x14 mudders

20r bored .060 w/ wiseco 9.9:1 forged pistons, Weber 38 outlaw
260 Comp Cam .440lift ,Crane Springs, 22r Valves, Pacesetter Header with a Flowmaster 40

83

Alright, thanks. I'm trying to decide whether or not to do the head gasket. I'd rather not, but I'd also rather not tear the engine apart for another 100,000 miles...I've got 166,000 now. Seems like it could be time? That part scares me more though.

It's true. I started taking things out last night, and there really is a lot of room to work with.

zlathim

You sound capable enough. Rent or buy a torque wrench and follow the factory service manual (FSM). Don't pull the engine, that's just more work.

Red_Chili

You will find posted on the web some procedures that do not involve removing the HG. IMHO, YMMV, etc. etc. this is bad advice, and the FSM procedure should be followed.

Head gaskets have a service life too. You may need to resurface the head (take it to a machine shop, they can mill the head with the valves installed), you may not, but that extra step isn't hard.

__________________
-Bill
Red Chili II: 1987 SASed 5VZ-FE 4Runner with more stuff than I can afford. Not that that makes me unique 'round here.
Shadowfax: 1993 minitruck. Getting the Engnbldr full meal deal. Hunting truck and DD!
Bio Page

rdlsz24

You can do eet! If you pull the head definately change the head gasket. You can change the chain without pulling the head but it seems frowned upon on this site.

Rob

__________________
1988 Xtra Cab Pickup ('94 22RE; 4x4; 5spd)
Rancho lift w/ 33x12.5x15 tires & 5.29s

83

Alllllllrighty thanks a lot everybody. I think I am determined to: leave the engine in the truck - do the HG - oh yeah and I guess I'm committed now because I've got everything but the carb off the engine now....nothing left but to loosen that damn crank bolt or whatever it is and start opening up the engine. Once I've got money a chain kit + water & oil pump and I guess HG will be coming from engnbldr.com

And yes, I've been taking some photos. I've been reading over the instructions I've found on the internet. Don't think I've found ones yet where they took the head off. Just the thread on this site with the guy who ended up taking it to a mechanic . No offense at all to him, I've had to do that before but it's funny that that's the one rescource online I can find for doing it the "right" way and look how it ended.

Red_Chili

Get an FSM and follow that procedure.

For the crank bolt, use a breaker bar resting on the frame rail, with the socket on the crank bolt. Tap - TAP! - the starter. Done.

Obviously you want to do this with the coil disconnected.

__________________
-Bill
Red Chili II: 1987 SASed 5VZ-FE 4Runner with more stuff than I can afford. Not that that makes me unique 'round here.
Shadowfax: 1993 minitruck. Getting the Engnbldr full meal deal. Hunting truck and DD!
Bio Page

83

There was someone on the Marlin Crawler site who posted a link to a library which had the (I think) FSM online. Isn't the FSM pretty expensive? Like over $50 just for the engine manual? Can't remember. I suppose it's worth it, but...check this out & let me know if it's what I need.

Do I need to take the steering linkages off like it says, in order to get the oil pan off? Or is there maybe enough room with the solid front axle? Some guides I've seen say I can jack up the transmission a bit to do it. How did you guys get yours off?

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=45029.0

gsb15

with the solid axle you don need to remove anything to drop the pan. if your motor has a single row chain you should consider buying a dual. it is stronger and the guides are metal insted of plastic. to do this you would need to find a timing chain cover and and oil pump drive from a dual chain motor. 1982 and earlier motors have the dual chain. it takes a bit of extra planning but it is worth it, the single row chains tend to slacken off and wear through the plastic guides, and eventually into a water jacket.........which aint fun

KegKiller

Just did the job for the 1st time and took me a weekend. Used all Toyota parts and gaskets so everything lined up great with zero leaks as of yet.

Red_Chili

Those who have done this seem to like the results. However, AFAIK Toyota went to a single chain to improve economy and power slightly through reducing drag slightly. I can live with replacing a timing chain every 120K miles; I like running fresh-ish head gaskets.

If you pay attention to the rattle that occurs, and peer inside your timing chain cavity to check the condition of your TC guides when you adjust your valves in regular service intervals, there should be no reason the timing chain would wear through the cover to the coolant passage.

__________________
-Bill
Red Chili II: 1987 SASed 5VZ-FE 4Runner with more stuff than I can afford. Not that that makes me unique 'round here.
Shadowfax: 1993 minitruck. Getting the Engnbldr full meal deal. Hunting truck and DD!
Bio Page

83

Great, thanks. I was talking with engnbldr.com about the dual row chain. I'll probably go with the single, I kind of argree with Red Chili, and it's just a bit cheaper, which sounds nice right now.. 100,000 or so miles is plenty for me. I'm going to keep taking the engine apart untill I can afford the parts. Definitely going to take my time. Thanks a lot for the responses.

83

Photos removed........

Red_Chili

You can just leave the intake connected. Assuming you don't need to shave the head. You miss the opportunity to clean the intake, etc. Do you have a FSM?

__________________
-Bill
Red Chili II: 1987 SASed 5VZ-FE 4Runner with more stuff than I can afford. Not that that makes me unique 'round here.
Shadowfax: 1993 minitruck. Getting the Engnbldr full meal deal. Hunting truck and DD!
Bio Page

83

Ok. It looks like I can also take the entire intake off with the carb, then get the head resurfaced. Are you saying I can leave the intake and carb attached so long as the head doesn't need resurfacing? That would sure be nice. Would you only resurface if there was a blown head gasket?

I have this:http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=45029.0

I believe it's an online version of the FSM. I guess I'll need to print out the part on the carb, since the head removal part only says "take this off, remove that" with no description of how to do it. I found the part on the intake and carb just now, I'll print it out. That is if I need to take all that off...

I got the dreaded 19mm bolt off using the 5th gear, 4wd, block the wheels method. My knuckle paid for it when it finally broke loose, though....won't be wrenching for a week or so...

So, which dots are supposed to line up for TDC? The hole that I've got lined up in the photo, or the two dots on front that aren't quite straight up in the other photo?

Red_Chili

Intake = intake manifold, on which the carb is bolted. The head resurfacing is performed if the head is not perfectly flat, whether the HG is blown or not. Same with decking the block.

By all means get the factory service manual. You will thank me that you did.

Another method to removing the crank bolt is to use a large breaker bar, put the socket on the bolt, lay the bar on the frame, disconnect the coil, and bump the starter. Just bump it. Comes right off.

Take a look at the FSM, it will clear up your questions.

__________________
-Bill
Red Chili II: 1987 SASed 5VZ-FE 4Runner with more stuff than I can afford. Not that that makes me unique 'round here.
Shadowfax: 1993 minitruck. Getting the Engnbldr full meal deal. Hunting truck and DD!
Bio Page

rdlsz24

On the 22RE I looked at the crank pulley to know if it was at TDC. I would think the 22R would be the same. If the notch in the crank is lined up with the 0 and your rockers on cylinder 1 are loose you are at tdc on cylinder 1 compression stroke.

Rob

__________________
1988 Xtra Cab Pickup ('94 22RE; 4x4; 5spd)
Rancho lift w/ 33x12.5x15 tires & 5.29s