My gym teacher laughed at me when I told him I was gonna wheel with my 2wd. I said that it would be at LEAST as good as his stock Jeep Liberty. He thinks I'm nuts. I say that 2wd LOCKED and with a winch (just in case) will go anywhere a 4wd with open diffs can go. Maybe not as easily, but I think it will get there and back out in one piece. Are there any good trails close to central PA I can test my rig on? I want my teacher to come with me (I'm sure he will) and bring his heap, just so I can show it up. I think 2wd locked will be good....I think....2 wheels turnig all the time, I mean come on, how often are the back wheels BOTH off the ground, except maybe in some hardcore rubicon type rocks?

 

I don't know of any trails, but...

How many times do the rear wheels come completely off the ground? More times then I expect, but more appropriately, they unload when on the ground. If the rear is flexed, the tire that is stuffed has more traction, the tire that is drooping has much less load and can slip.

 

I think you'll be fine as long as you stay away from the steeper hills. That is when 4WD really helps out, by using the front tires to help pull the weight up the hill. With the back tires, even with both of them always spinning, it's still not quite as good IMO. But I say give 'er hell!!! You'd kick that Jeep's ass any day, even unlocked!

 

Well, I'd say that 2wd locked with a winch will get you places. I would recogmend that you get the rear to have some INSANE flex to compensate for not having 4wd

 

Check this site out:
Prerunners.net
They are all into lifting and wheeling their 2wd trucks.
Although, it seems they all are sponsered by Total Chaos.
I think most are into desert running, but I believe a locked 2wd will do very well off road, provided no larger obsticals are in the way.
As long as you can push your way around, you're fine
Later!
Todd

 

I agree with your assumption as long as you are locked and have aggresive tires. Tires that pack with dirt or mud easily will get you stuck no matter what kind of drive system or lockers you have.

 

Well I was planning on either dueler revo a/ts or dueler m/ts, probably going with 32 or 33", depending on what I can stuff in there. How would I get "insane flex?" Is there anything specific I can do to achieve more flex in the back???

 

Go dry trails with ruts in them. The best thing you could do to your advantage is to find a spot that would lift opposing tires (one front, opposite rear) so he gets stuck, not you.

I'd stay away from low traction mud or snow or he might be the one showing you up. Although both your rears are turning with power they will hit the same ups & downs in the mud and if one tire gets stuck, most likely the other rear tire right beside it is just begging to get stuck too while you sit there turning your front wheels left & right (which does nothing obviously).

I've heard the traction control (if he has that) on the Liberty is quite good too, so careful.. But pls do show him up and take pics & vids.

 

but surely with a winch I can get out of most stuff, right? I'm sure there are a ton of places I couldn't go with just 2wd, but with a winch I can tow myself out pretty well, right? maybe I should see if I can get a bigger power steering pump and a hydraulic winch....

 

With a good winch, yes, you can tow yourself out of almost everything. Electric is fine, no need for lame hydro crap.

With that said, I would put my money on the liberty any day. Unless the driver is a complete moron...

 

Yes, do a search on here for hydraulic, and you will see they are worthless if your engine is stopped.

Electric winches are the only way to go.

 

I can't edit fast enough to keep ya'll from making me feel stoopid hehe. I kind of thought of the hydraulic = no worky with engine off a little bit after I posted it. I actually did a search before and read that, and also that the stock pump is no good anyway.

I have to disagree that a STOCK liberty would be better offroad....not sure if he has traction control or not, though...that would make a big difference ...

 

For those size tires, you're probably looking at the long travel kits.
There's a "new guy" with a simpler version out now, and cheaper, but I don't know what the quality is like.
For the flex, you'll want the long travel as well.
You'll probably want to get the fiberglass fenders as well to avoid rubbing.
For the rear, you can get 4wd springs and just reverse the center pin so it fits under the axle.
The All Pro springs I have are nice. I like the ride, and I think they flex well, but I haven't tried them out anywhere yet.
I'd probably stay away from deep snow/mud as well It's hard to push a vehicle through that.
For the cost of most the long travel kits, it's almost better to do a SAS for more serious wheeling.
I've been thinking of trying the Inland place (new guy link), but I need $$$ first.
Todd

 

Wow 6-7" of lift? That's pretty serious liftage! Especially for $600.... what is involved in a SAS for an '85? I know the 4x4 versions had sas, so it wouldn't be as hard as on say a 2nd gen 4runner or 86+ pickup, right? it's not a bolt-on though, is it?

 

I used to wheel my 2wd truck on some rough dirt roads. The disadvantages of 2wd are:

1) There is not much clearance unless you lift it somehow. I smacked a leaf spring on a rock and broke a leaf. Luckily, I made it home without the spring letting go the rest of the way.

2) You will have a gearing disadvantage that you can never recoup. I am in low range 90% of the time when I am in 4wd. Most of my off roading is done at speeds of less than 35 mph. There were lots of times that I wanted to go slower than I could without slipping the clutch in my 2wd.

3) Even locked, a 2wd truck, especially a Toyota (or other compact truck), is at a disadvantage. This is simply because there is not enough weight to give the tires traction. My 2wd SUCKED in snow. Even with the bed full of cut-up railroad ties for weight, it still was dicey on hills in snow. I wouldn't even want to take that load off roading. The springs couldn't handle the abuse.

Even so, I think that you can still have a lot of fun with a 2wd and a winch. Getting into places (and out of them) sometimes has a lot more to do with driver skill and know-how than it has to do with mechanical advantages that vehicles have.

Good luck!

 

Well I do plan on a lift, either 3.5" suspension + 1" body or 6" suspension. I'm honestly not worried at ALL about clearance, that's the least of my problems. I will have a bunch of weight over the rear for my xcountry trip, maybe I can put some in the back for wheeling as well.

 

Yup, and SAS for these is just like an IFS. Cut and weld.
Then getting the rear up high enough is the other catch.
Mounting the springs on top of the axle would take care of that though (more cut and weld).
Doing the 3.5" suspension and 1" body you can get 30's under there easily.
You can overgear the rear end as well to help the lack of low range (like going with 4.88's with 30" tires).
The only issue I'm running into with lifting our long a$$ trucks this high is I haven't found anyone that can make a single piece driveshaft with out type of connections.
Still searching though.
So far I don't think It's necessary for my on-road driving, but I'm sure off-road it will be helpful.
I'll post what I find when I do.
Todd

 

Dood, I never said a stock Liberty is better off-road. Gawd, I'd have to chop my own tongue off! I only eluded to the fact that his 4WD *might* end up getting the better of your 2WD if you don't choose trails wisely.

And with a winch I think you can pretty much go further than anywhere he can.

 

I have a locked rear and open front. In serious climbing, one or the other front tires is off the ground anyway so the front axle is cancelled out--it's the locked rear that's doing all the work. I do use 4:1 low range religiously though. See if you can put in a 4wd tranny and T-case and shorten your rear driveshaft. You don't have to use the front output of the transfer case, just use it for lower gearing to the rear.

I've been doing most of my trail running with the front hubs unlocked, just using low-range with the locked rear. The only trouble I've found with 2wd is when the nose of the truck is pointed downhill--Either backing up hill or using low range to slow a decent. You may want to have some way to pull your truck backwards (multimount winch, come-along, etc). I rarely have any trouble going forwards in 2wd-low.

Have fun,

Eric

 

well i was too lazy to read everything to see if someone answered so i'll just input a little bit....first where exactly in central pa? i'm from south central (hahahahahaha) pa and there are some places in and around south mountain....the mt holly springs area...and in michaxau (sp?) state forest....i've only gone once when i was home over easter break...but my friend and i found some cool places......nothing really has a name though...the best way to go is to get on Ridge Road in Mt. Holly Springs....if you are going south on PA-34 its on your right just south of the city....you can also access it on PA 233 between Pine Grove Furnace State Park and Chambersburg......ridge road runs along the ridge (hahahahhaa) of south moutain and while it iself is just your average dirt road it has plenty of unnamed trails that lead off of it........if your not in south central i would assume that up around williamsport would have tons of stuff i just don't know any particulars...e-mail me at icbarnes@yahoo.com if you want more info and i will try and find some of my maps to scan for ya....but basically you just have to go out by south mountain and mess around till ya find something!