Sorry, I know there are a hundred of these threads already, but its so hard to tell what specific noise people are referring to. I figure a video is the best way to go. Thanks for any help guys.

1985 Pickup 4x4 EFI Base Single Cab
131xxx mi
engine work: unknown

This noise was not there at all yesterday, the engine has been running perfectly, and still is.

My hope is that its just something loose and not the timing chain or valve train.

Here is the video:

 

5spd or auto?

 

Sorry, its a 5spd.

 

timing chain guides failed i think ?. hard to know for sure by laptop audio .chain is hitting timing chain cover making the noise. if it is fix it asap . you may be able to verify by pulling valve cover and checking the slack in chain . and maybe see down in the cover to look at guides . its a very common failure . need to stress not driving it with a possible chain failure looming . valves and pistons collide in this engine so a simple chain becomes a top end rebuild or worse . good luck hopefully youll find a loose bolt rattling around somewhere instead.

 

Should be simple enough to locate. Get a long screw driver and place end of it on different places on the motor where it sounds like it is coming from and place your ear on the handle of the screw driver. Otherwise remove valve cover gasket and look down drivers side like already suggested.

 

adjust that valve lash while you're in there.

 

Thanks for all the replies everyone, much appreciated! I'll pop the valve cover off tomorrow and get back to you on what I discover. Fingers crossed that its not the timing chain, but that seems to be the general consensus among people I've asked.

 

OK. So I pulled the valve cover the other day to check the timing chain guide, lo and behold...it was almost completely broken off, hanging on by a tiny piece on the bottom bolt. I had the day off work today, and my local mechanic happened to have a timing kit (with metal backed guides!), so I said why not and just dove right into it.

This is the first time I've been inside this engine since buying it 2 months ago. I noticed some things that the previous owner did not mention at the time of selling. When the engine was rebuilt, the head was shaved down quite a bit, probably too much. This would explain why the compression is so good though! I bought the thing thinking this was the best sounding 22re i've ever heard, it purred real nice. Bad thing is the cam timing is probably off by quite a bit, since it doesn't have an adjustable cam gear. I didn't really know what to do about it other than just leave it. It sounded so good before that I figured it must be fine like that. I'm kinda kicking myself now because I didn't take any pics and now I think it might have been off by too much. I started it up just about an hour ago and drove it around. The thing sounds like a tractor! I mean the valves are so loud its kind of scary.

Here's the thing, I didn't adjust the valve lash, since I figured it must have been fine since it sounded so smooth before. I did feel the valves on cyl 1 and 3 while at TDC and the exhaust felt a little tight. I'm probably an idiot for not adjusting it but I thought that maybe it needed to be tight in order to somehow compensate for something else that was happening.

Anyway, here is a new video of the valve clatter. Is it OK for them to be like this? I mean I know the 22re is famous for its noisy valve train but I've never heard one this loud. (sry its so dark, I've been workin on it all day and got done just as the sun went down)

Any help greatly appreciated!

 

holy ˟˟˟˟˟..

 

85 22r 4x4 pickup, 317k, 40k after rebuild, on plastic replacement guides. replaced the timing chain and guides with new metal ones. Had to pull the pan to get all the plastic parts from the old guides out, and there were a mess of them. I tried 06 and 10 thousands on the valves and my valve clatter has gone away. Don't waste your $$ on plastic guides.....

 

....

They are plastic guides but with the metal backing...which is the part that breaks, right?

I'm gonna adjust the valves either tonight or tomorrow and see if that helps. There are 130k miles on the engine, should I set the valves to spec or try tighter first?

 

If the plastic is broken at all it is down in the oil pan. Check your valve timing, before you bother doing the valves. when you turn the harmonic balancer the valve cam should move. Set the mark to 0 and the valve keyway should be at 12 o'clock, with the #1 cylinder at the top. There should be no slack what so ever. If the chain is loose at all then it and the guides need to be replaced. This is an interference engine, so it is possible to damage the valves it it breaks.

 

OK today I got a lot done...but sadly with still the same noise.

Adjusted the valves HOT to .007" and .011". They were all very tight on the exhaust side, and all but one of the intake valves were tight. So just one loose valve, the #3 intake.

Installed fresh valve cover gasket and seals. Tightened down slightly more than hand tight, with a slight mushroom starting on the rubber grommets.

Changed the spark plugs, gapped to .32"

Changed oil, 10W30 w/ 20% Lucas Oil Stabilizer. Toyota filter.

Adjusted ignition timing to 5 deg BTDC w/ timing light and jumper on te1/e1.


Still sounds like a diesel, so I am now thinking that the timing chain is just too loose and the cam timing is off. What do you guys think??

When setting the timing, the timing mark was jumping around a bit, definitely not staying exactly still. There was definitely some slack on the passenger side of the chain, and not much on the drivers side, I will post a video of the slack later tonight.

Thanks guys!

 

If there is slack on the passenger side of the chain that would indicate that the tensioner is not working properly. Did you get the bolts in the right holes? Also torque them properly? Wrong length bolt of an over torqued bolt could impede the tensioner ability to function. Really sucks to think about doing it again. But a loose chain will probably jump a tooth and then your ***£+*

 

Yeah doing that again right now would be a bummer, but the tensioner was fine before I took it apart and it was fine when I put the chain back on. Everything was put back together properly. You think its because the head was decked too much? Oh the other thing is the compression on all 4 cylinders was over 205 +/-5, its definitely tight in there. Thoughts?

Here is a video of the slack.


Thanks for your help!

 

I am sure that may be part of it. But there is a bolt that if over tightened it will prevent the tensioner from fully extending properly. You may be noticing it sooner because of the amount taken off the head. If you had that much taken off and don't put an adjustable cam gear (I think that's what it's called) you will go through head gaskets like toilet paper after bad Mexican food. Its just going to run too hot.

Good luck hope this helps

 

Thanks fishguy. Ya the PO did not have an adjustable gear put in, but the thing is...it was dead quiet before I took it apart (aside from the timing chain slap), no valves ticking or anything. The bolt on the tensioner that you mention now has me worried. Not because I feel I overtightened it, but just because I just can't think of what else would be causing this.

UGH...I do not wanna tear this thing apart again right now...

 

Here is a link to 4crawlers site. I think it's step 35 ish that talks about the potential problem
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ingChain.shtml

 

that chain looks loose to me in the video its been 10 years and 100k+ since i looked at mine but still looks loose. also i used doa chain guides they are metal backed with rubber and do not break ever . like was mentioned before tensioner ? . yea 205 seams way above average too. mine was 154 +- 4#s . head milled that much ? i just wonder if it was milled a bunch and cam line was line bored to reuse a warped head . both would put cam closer to crank .it would really be excessive though, and you said it was quiet before the chain guide broke ? at least your getting after it. i knew my guides failed drove it a week and the chain broke found mismatched pistons under the bent valves . so I yanked it and went thru everything .

 

did you get this resolved?