I bought my 1st Toyota ever, about a year ago.

I have brothers and sisters who are Toyota fanatics, and have always promoted them as bullet-proof etc. They drive mainly cars and minivans.

I live in the sticks, so I need 4WD.

So I bought a 1990 4runner, 3.0. The body and frame and accessories and suspension are fairly impressive, but the motor, exhaust, and transmission are garbage.

I have to say, after a year, I am completely surprised at my experience with this vehicle. My wife laughs about it. "I thought Toyotas were supposed to be reliable, maintenance-free, etc"

This thing is a piece of crap. The engine is underpowered and choked with a ridiculous array of emissions garbage. You have to un-time the motor just to change a water pump. The fan assembly is a time bomb waiting to destroy the radiator and battery. The intake airway is a joke. The exhaust is a joke with its huge crossover and impossible access. The coolant pathway allows crap to accumulate in the rear of the motor where the temperature sensor is hidden thereby fooling the ECM into thinking the engine is running too cool and thereby preventing the vehicle from shifting into overdrive. The head gasket fails. The transmission solenoids fail. The EGR's fail. Etc.

I wanted a used but reliable get-around-the-neighborhood vehicle. Not a competition wheeler. A trail and highway vehicle. One that requires occasional oil change and lube job, and not much else.

Can I achieve the Toyota experience if I upgrade to a 96 or 97 that's in good condition?

Or do they have their own set of money-pit problems requiring constant attention?

Thx.

 

3rd gens improved in pretty much every way. I drove my friend's '92 Runner and it felt very dated compared to even my 8 year old 3rd gen which is still fairly modern with much improved ergonomics (especially with the '99+) and more power than the 3.0.

I have 125k on mine and the only stuff done outside of regular maintenance was axle seals at 100k. Mines a DD and sees the trail more than a few times throughout the less snowy months. I'm a bit of a leadfoot and I have heavier D load rated tires but even with mostly city driving I get a little under/over 17mpg.

Here's a year to year breakdown of the improvements

http://www.top4runners.com/ja/runhist31996.html

 

Yeah, but if you buy one that already has a f-d up motor, it won't be any different.

I've had mine for 4 years and over 30k miles. Original motor, original clutch if you can believe that. Had it's head gaskets replaced on the recall nearly 100k miles ago. It runs great and is completely, utterly trouble free. Best $4500 I ever spent. Besides routine maintenance items, I really haven't done anything to mine. All I've done under the hood is to replace the radiator. It had a pin-hole and I found a new one on Radiators.com for $125 shipped so I just replaced it. That's the only cooling system "trouble" I've ever had - and I can't even call it trouble, really. I basically just replaced the radiator for the heck of it. It's my daily driver and I've done quite a bit of moderate wheelin' in it. Never has run like anything other than a quality swiss watch (though it does tick like one and moves at a similar pace!).

So I take it you bought it with that new dealer-installed motor you have listed in your signature in it? My guess is that that's your problem. Botched job, lousy reman motor - somethin' there. And did you buy it with those tranny problems? Er......yeah.....

That's my truck. 'Cept it wheels pretty dang tough.

But yeah, even when you get a good one, an old Toy truck just isn't a sports car.

 

did you really need to start this thread twice?

 

That's worth a reply.

I bought the runner from the Toyota Tech who installed the motor.

The tech bought a salvage vehicle with no damage to engine, and pulled the engine from it. It's OEM. He sat on the motor until he found a vehicle for it: a 90 runner that developed a radiator leak and burned up on the hwy. He built the truck for his daughter, then chose to sell it when his daughter got in "trouble". She never drove it. He put 1000 miles on it. I bought it from him.

Nothing has failed in the motor except the water pump and possibly the ticking valve. It has a new radiator. It's bone stock except for my intake mod.

Except the ticking valve, the problems I'm experiencing are all related to poor engineering. It runs smooth and nice. Except the fan wobbles like crazy from 2500 to 4500 rpms. Total grenade waiting to happen. I thought it was attributable to the metal hoop bracket on the fan, but after adressing that, i now see that the whole mounting bracket and pulley wobble uncontrollably at that rpm range. It's insane. I gotta drop $200 on an efan just to prevent my cooling fan from exploding. I gotta pull the damn hood off to check for possible blockage to coolant pipes or sensors on the back of the motor that is preventing my truck from getting into OD. The OD thing is winter only. When it's hotter in the summer, I don't have the problem. Because the motor runs hotter. Setting a OD kickout temp threshhold so close to the thermostat open threshhold is just stupid, especially when the temp sensor is inaccessible on the back of the motor, and the coolant passages to it are of diminishing diameter (creates a trap for debris).

Anyway, I digress. My problems generally are not related to a "bad" motor or a "bad" install. They stem primarily from "bad" engineering.

Of course, my runner is 17 years old and has almost 200K miles, so that may be part of the problem.

But the whole idea behind buying a used but healthy yota is that they run forever, etc.

3.0's don't run forever. They apparently limp forever.

I shoulda spent a month on this board before I bought, rather than after.

BTW, thanks for the link to the progression of changes. 99+ sounds like the way to go.

 

I was interested to see if opinions varied betwen the 2nd gen and 3rd gen forums. I still am. We'll see...

Did you really need to read it twice?

Thanks for ringing in.

 

Hate to hear your experience with the 4Runner is less than great, I have had 5 Toyota's only 1 has had the 3.0 in it. Needless to say the only one that I have ever had any issues with is the current 91 ext cab with the 3.0. The motor had been replaced but either the vacuum lines or wiring harness was screwed up when I got the truck, and the guy was nice enough to take the Check engine bulb out and I didn't notice that until much later.

After spending some cash and a lot of time, I redid all the vacuum lines and the harness,ever since the motor has run fine(as good as the 3.0 will). I have since put 60k miles on it and it cranks and runs well, but due to the design it is sluggish and a gas hog (the 35's don't help). I have bought a 88 Runner with almost 1/4 million miles on it that has the 22re for my "new" truck. The motor has a knock to it, but best I can tell it never has been rebuilt. I am going to rebuild it and drive the truck forever or until they outlaw gasoline.

My suggestion (and its only my opinion) would be to find you a Toyota 4x4 either with the 22re or one of the later v-6's, just nothing with the 3.0. From my experience the 3.0 hasn't been a bad motor its just hasn't been a great one. If you go that route I'm sure you will have a much better "Toyota experience".

 

Dunno, man. My fan runs nice and smooth..... :shrug: The 3VZ isn't perfect, but I have a hard time attributing over 180k miles of trouble-free running to bad engineering. But then I'm not smarter than the Toyota engineers like you are so I wouldn't know. It just seems weird that you have this...other?....engine that has all of these problems where most people have good luck with them aside from the head gaskets. You don't hear much about fan problems aside from people breaking them in deep water crossings taken too fast - hard to blame the engineers for that, though.....

Maybe a Chevy or Ford would be a better way to go?

 

First - this vehicle IS 17 years old! You kinda have to expect that it's going to require SOME maintenance. I will totally agree that the 3.0 is a PITA to work on.

Second - it sounds to me like you have a bad bearing in the fan clutch pulley bracket, and possibly a bad thermostat (just because it's new doesn't mean it's good)

Third - if you could afford a third gen, why didn't you get one? Just seems silly to me to buy a vehicle 10 yrs older than you could afford...

 

I think most people don't hunt for new posts in each individual forums;most use the "new posts" button so then you'd see the thread repeated.

 

In my opinion, 3rd generation 4Runners are much improved from the 2nd gens. That said, 2nd gens will always have a special place in my heart. I learned to drive in my family's 2nd generation 4Runner, so I didn't know that the way it drove was a bit slower than the 3rd gens until my dad got a '96 Runner. That 3.4 is a big improvement. My dad's '96 has over 205K on it now (had 81K when he got it in 2000) and it's only had basic maintenance since he's had it. I put 100K on it going to college, and never had a problem at all with it. I have an '01 Limited now but I still love the '96.

The comfort is much improved with the 3rd gens too: more leg room, especially in the rear, the rear hatch is great when compared to the tailgate in the 2nd gens, and you don't have to worry about replacing the rear window motor because you don't use it anywhere near as frequently as you do in the 2nd gens.

In all, my family has owned seven 4runners over the years: an '89, '94, '95, '96, '97, '01 and '02. We currently have five. Four of these are 3rd gens, and one is the '95. I like to take it on short trips, but a 3rd gen is really better for longer trips with more people.

I'd definitely look into a used 3rd gen. They can be very affordable, and I don't think you'll be disappointed. And if you need the 4WD, make sure the model you get has the VSC and full-time AWD. I think that was the '96-'02 Limiteds and the '99-'02 Sports/Highlanders. But it may have become standard on the SR5s in the last few years of the 3rd gen. Hope that helps!

 

i have a 96 with 160k, my bro has a 98 with 200k and my mom has a 99 with 230k. we looked at a few 2nd gens fomr my bro, but my dad said no, 3rd gen is alot better.

 

I don't really see how you can expect a 17 year old rig to run flawlessly. Sure 3.0 is complex and inefficient, but it needs a water pump and fan; so now it's damned as a piece of crap money pit?

Every vehicle has it's quirks - especially older ones. I'm just curious what your comparing the thing to in order for it to be so horrid

 

For one the 2nd gens interior ergonomics and lack of creature comforts suffer when it comes to lack of multiple power outlets,auto up/down windows,etc. and those horrid cup holders on the dash which weren't expelled til the '99 models and the 3.0 is so much slower than the 3.4 which really isn't that quick either so you have more useable power and still get the same or even better MPGs. 3rd gens are also a safer vehicle by far since there have been mandatory upgrades since the last of the 2nd gens rolled off the line.

2nd gens have a place in my heart but for a DD it won't have a place in my garage.

 

My 3.0 has been flawless since I bought it, thats almost 13 years. I take good care of it and it takes good care of me. I bet this guy knew he problems with the motor and sold it to the first guy who took his word and that was you. And yah its a b**ch to work on if you have too but thats Toyota engineering for you.

 

Hey, thanks for all the feedback.

The answer to my original question appears to be yes.

 

Yes they did, but I as most just look under new posts.

 

Here's one to defend the second gen. Tailgate style rear vs. hatch. Fully boxed frame. Stronger front steering system that is easily adapted to a solid axle swap. Front lift on a torsion bar suspension is basically free as long as you don't get carried away.

The 3.4 in the 3rd gen shares many of the same problems as the 2nd gen as they are in the same family. They have pluses like no distributor and more power and available Toyota supercharger. The ultimate Toyota in my mind is a 2nd gen with a supercharged 3.4.

 

2nd gen steering definitely ain't stronger than 3rd...

 

LOL